ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

lainey_d_123

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

This thread really has gone full gammon. It's like reading the comments on Daily Mail articles.

No, you're just a bleeding heart leftie who thinks someone who is clearly still a very real danger to the UK should be let back in. It would be different if she had shown some remorse. She hasn't. She's not sorry. She thinks it's all justified. The British are doing nothing illegal here. They have the right to strip someone of their citizenship if they present a risk to national security, which this woman clearly does.

Sorry if you think that's so 'out there'.

malinheader

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

This thread really has gone full gammon. It's like reading the comments on Daily Mail articles.

It seems to me the posters who were firing there facts about there's nothing the UK could do and she has to be allowed back in have now changed there stance to make her the victim In all of this.

Cushie Butterfield

https://twitter.com/missgatkinson/status/1097533771161784325?s=21

stefanovich

She is an enemy of the state. In most countries that would attract the death penalty. She should count herself lucky to be alive.

ohnonotgmail

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

No, you're just a bleeding heart leftie who thinks someone who is clearly still a very real danger to the UK should be let back in. It would be different if she had shown some remorse. She hasn't. She's not sorry. She thinks it's all justified. The British are doing nothing illegal here. They have the right to strip someone of their citizenship if they present a risk to national security, which this woman clearly does.

Sorry if you think that's so 'out there'.

I dont think any of those things. Please refer to my previous post about actually reading the post you are replying to.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

This thread really has gone full gammon. It's like reading the comments on Daily Mail articles.

Bollox!

You have posters saying here they are loathed to support the British government on any other matter but in this case, they agree with what the government have done.

They’re hardly daily mail advocates

Boggles

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Stripping her of citizenship is not undermining any rights she has in this case. She is not stateless as she has Bangladeshi citizenship. She is therefore entitled to the rights of a Bangladeshi citizen. They can expedite a Bangladeshi passport to her and she can go and dwell there with her child.

Well, it's not as clear cut as that from my reading of it.

There is nothing stopping Bangladesh from telling her and Britain to fook off.

It's not a popular move, internally or internationally. Not to mention it is a giant 'Fook you' to the Kurds.


Conservative MP and former Home Secretary Ken Clarke.

“To have every western country desperately trying to find obscure legal arguments to shove them into some other country and leave them in Syria will be an absolute disaster, a great boost for jihadism,” Mr Clarke told the BBC.

He said he was “surprised” that Home Office lawyers had apparently advised Mr Javid that Ms Begum could be stripped of her citizenship. He called instead for sympathisers to be prosecuted. “What you can’t do is leave them in a camp in Syria being even more radicalised and radicalising other people until they disperse themselves through the world,” Mr Clarke said.

stefanovich

Boggles wrote: »

Well, it's not as clear cut as that from my reading of it.

There is nothing stopping Bangladesh from telling her and Britain to fook off.

It's not a popular move, internally or internationally. Not to mention it is a giant 'Fook you' to the Kurds.


Conservative MP and former Home Secretary Ken Clarke.

It's not one or the other. She can be stripped of citizenship and imprisoned as a foreign combatant.

Sonics2k

Grayson wrote: »

Removing citizenship from someone is something that should never be done. When you remove citizenship, you strip people of a load of rights that they have.

One thing that always jumps to mind when i hear of something like this is the nazi's. No, I'm not godwinning, I'm not comparing the tories to the nazi's. It's just that the nazi's stripped the jews of their german citizenship. When they did that it enabled them to do stuff that they couldn't do legally to german citizens. It also meant that many couldn't flee because they had no citizenship, so no passport etc...

If what she did was illegal, then open a case with the CPS and prosecute her when she returns. If she's deemed a security risk, then she should be monitored when she gets back.

Nah sorry, I've been called a leftie-loon and libtard many times on this site, but seriously fúck this girl.

She left knowing exactly who she was joining up with, absolutely believes in their cause and has been unrepentant in her views of ISIS.

Take the kid off of her, and let her go back to the rest of murderous psyhos she joined up with.

ohnonotgmail

malinheader wrote: »

It seems to me the posters who were firing there facts about there's nothing the UK could do and she has to be allowed back in have now changed there stance to make her the victim In all of this.

This all just optics by the british government. If they really cared about these people there is a whole list of other people who should be stripped of citizenship before this woman. She has not been convicted of any crime. there isn't even any certainty that she has committed a crime. Yet the british government strip her of citizenship based purely on the court of public opinion. Where does all this leave the child who is a british citizen? they dont seem to care about that citizen.

lainey_d_123

Boggles wrote: »

Well, it's not as clear cut as that from my reading of it.

There is nothing stopping Bangladesh from telling her and Britain to fook off.

It's not a popular move, internally or internationally. Not to mention it is a giant 'Fook you' to the Kurds.


Conservative MP and former Home Secretary Ken Clarke.

So you think the British should be bullied into accepting her back, or else they'll get bombed again. Did your ma never tell you to stand up to bullies?

lainey_d_123

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I dont think any of those things. Please refer to my previous post about actually reading the post you are replying to.

I did read it. And?

Boggles

stefanovich wrote: »

It's not one or the other. She can be stripped of citizenship and imprisoned as a foreign combatant.

By who?

Ulysses Gaze

Boggles wrote: »

Well, it's not as clear cut as that from my reading of it.

There is nothing stopping Bangladesh from telling her and Britain to fook off.

It's not a popular move, internally or internationally. Not to mention it is a giant 'Fook you' to the Kurds.


Conservative MP and former Home Secretary Ken Clarke.

And how much will it cost the British taxpayer to fund her a) legal aid b) imprisonment c) monitoring her when she is released d) the 24hr protection she and her family will require when she is released from prison in the UK as she will be receiving death threats all the time.

Boggles

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

And how much will it cost the British taxpayer to fund her a) legal aid b) imprisonment c) monitoring her when she is released d) the 24hr protection she and her family will require when she is released from prison in the UK as she will be receiving death threats all the time.

I have no idea, but why should any other nation be bullied into that burden?

ohnonotgmail

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I did read it. And?

Please quote the posts that show

No, you're just a bleeding heart leftie who thinks someone who is clearly still a very real danger to the UK should be let back in.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

I have no idea, but why should any other nation be bullied into that burden?

She’s a Bangladesh citizen, ask them!

malinheader

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

This all just optics by the british government. If they really cared about these people there is a whole list of other people who should be stripped of citizenship before this woman. She has not been convicted of any crime. there isn't even any certainty that she has committed a crime. Yet the british government strip her of citizenship based purely on the court of public opinion. Where does all this leave the child who is a british citizen? they dont seem to care about that citizen.

You and me totally agree there is plenty more who should be stripped.
Would the child not be s dual citizen.
Mother half British half Bangladeshi
Father Dutch
Born in Syria.

ohnonotgmail

malinheader wrote: »

You and me totally agree there is plenty more who should be stripped.
Would the child not be s dual citizen.
Mother half British half Bangladeshi
Father Dutch
Born in Syria.

The child does not have syrian citizenship. They operate jus sanguinis. The child may acquire dutch citizenship if the father can be found. the Child does have both british and banglashi citizenship. Removing the citizenship from the mother has no bearing on the child. they are still british citizens.

EagererBeaver

Contest: The United Kingdom’s Strategy for
Countering Terrorism 2018.

There's an illustrative example of how to deal with a British woman who runs off to ISIS and has a baby. In short:

1) managed return to the UK
2) criminal investigation
3) de-radicalisation
4) care for baby

From? The Home Office. Which of course is headed up by? Sajid Javid. Who wrote the ****ing foreword to the document.

He knows full well his "ruling" will get slapped about by the courts. Stopping her coming back to the UK isn't his objective. Right wing rabble rousing is.

timthumbni

We should offer to bring the child back to the UK. And the child alone. That hooded witch should be told to go and feck herself. Or why doesn’t she pray to allah and surely he will sort it out.

shaunr68

timthumbni wrote: »

We should offer to bring the child back to the UK. And the child alone. That hooded witch should be told to go and feck herself. Or why doesn’t she pray to allah and surely he will sort it out.

I agree. If the child was to be brought back alone to the UK it should be taken into care and put up for adoption with the stipulation that it should be adopted by a secular family. No way should we allow the grandparents to raise the next generation of jihadis.

Grayson

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Stripping her of citizenship is not undermining any rights she has in this case. She is not stateless as she has Bangladeshi citizenship. She is therefore entitled to the rights of a Bangladeshi citizen. They can expedite a Bangladeshi passport to her and she can go and dwell there with her child.

The Tories are not acting as Nazis here. ISIS members are more like the Nazi's tbh. When did we ever accept the "We were just following orders." excuses that the Nazis gave back then that ISIS are giving now?

It strips her of the rights she has as a british citizen. She may have rights as a citizen of another country but it still strips her of the rights she hd as a british citizen.

There's also the fact that she's been stripped of her rights without any due process.

When we stop prisoners from voting or restrict their freedom, we do so after a trial. We do routinely remove people's freedoms and rights, but we have very strict processes to do this. In this case a single person in the Uk government decided to remove them. No trial, no arrest, no charges, nothing. That's something that should scare anyone.

EagererBeaver

timthumbni wrote: »

We should offer to bring the child back to the UK. And the child alone. That hooded witch should be told to go and feck herself. Or why doesn’t she pray to allah and surely he will sort it out.

What do you propose? British cops go and rip the child from her arms?

Grayson

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

But she lost those rights for herself when she chose to go to Syria and participate in terrorist activities. You seem to think citizenship is a right. It isn't. She actively fought against 'her' own country. She won't be left stateless. She'll be able to get a Bangladeshi passport. Comparing this case to the Jews is actually disgusting. They were innocent victims of the Nazi regime, not criminals and murderers who travelled abroad to kill people.

Did you even notice when I said i wasn't comparing.

And citizenship is a right. People have a right to irish citizenship if they meet certain criteria. And that citizenship can't be removed once they have it. the government can't just decide that you are no longer Irish.

same goes for the Uk. As someone who was born in the UK I have a right to citizenship. And that citizenship comes with certain rights. Removing those rights is not something that should be decided arbitrarily.

Boggles

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Contest: The United Kingdom’s Strategy for
Countering Terrorism 2018.

There's an illustrative example of how to deal with a British woman who runs off to ISIS and has a baby. In short:

1) managed return to the UK
2) criminal investigation
3) de-radicalisation
4) care for baby

From? The Home Office. Which of course is headed up by? Sajid Javid. Who wrote the ****ing foreword to the document.

He knows full well his "ruling" will get slapped about by the courts. Stopping her coming back to the UK isn't his objective. Right wing rabble rousing is.

You couldn't make it up.

His attempt at populism is back firing spectacular.

There was a day max two left in the news cycle.

Everything will be firmly put under the microscope now.

Grayson

Sonics2k wrote: »

Nah sorry, I've been called a leftie-loon and libtard many times on this site, but seriously fúck this girl.

She left knowing exactly who she was joining up with, absolutely believes in their cause and has been unrepentant in her views of ISIS.

Take the kid off of her, and let her go back to the rest of murderous psyhos she joined up with.

She was a teenager who was groomed online.

Even without that though, if she was a fully grown adult who knew fully what she was doing, she shouldn't be stripped of her citizenship.

If she committed a crime that can be tried in the UK then she should be brought back to face the trial. If she comes back and she's broken a law in another country, then it may be possible to extradite her. If she's broken no laws and is deemed a security risk then she should be monitored.

timthumbni

EagererBeaver wrote: »

What do you propose? British cops go and rip the child from her arms?

Not at all. I said the uk should offer to accept her child back to the UK. If she wants to stay with her child then maybe she should try Bangladesh.

lainey_d_123

Grayson wrote: »

Did you even notice when I said i wasn't comparing.

And citizenship is a right. People have a right to irish citizenship if they meet certain criteria. And that citizenship can't be removed once they have it. the government can't just decide that you are no longer Irish.

same goes for the Uk. As someone who was born in the UK I have a right to citizenship. And that citizenship comes with certain rights. Removing those rights is not something that should be decided arbitrarily.

It's not 'arbitrary'. There are laws regarding committing terrorist acts and being a danger to national security. Do you not think the lawyers advising the government know them better than you?

malinheader

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The child does not have syrian citizenship. They operate jus sanguinis. The child may acquire dutch citizenship if the father can be found. the Child does have both british and banglashi citizenship. Removing the citizenship from the mother has no bearing on the child. they are still british citizens.

So do you think the child should be let in without the mother and adopted. Or what other solution