Dublin ranks 3rd in terms of the amount of time spent in cars due to congestion

LeChienMefiant

Shai wrote: »

cost of building light rail / metro stations close to everyone's homes VS cost of providing secure bike and scooter storage

gosh, I sure wonder which of those numbers will be bigger

Can't we have both? It's ridiculous to expect everyone to cycle, scoot or walk everywhere. Mixed mode is however realistic and bike sharing makes this really easy in urban centres. At the other end in the suburbs safe secure parking is needed.

AndrewJRenko

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Shai wrote: »

cost of building light rail / metro stations close to everyone's homes VS cost of providing secure bike and scooter storage

gosh, I sure wonder which of those numbers will be bigger

Nobody wants to go to work on a kid's scooter...rail and metros have been transporting people for over 100 years..its a transportation system that works and one that people will use for years to come.


Meanwhile you can lock your bicycle to a railings like you've always done..i can't see Transdev building little houses for scooters..maybe you could buy a Wendy house and use that?

You should hang around Grand Canal Dock some morning and count the number of people using scooters.

Bikes locked to railings cause problems for people with sight loss and narrow the path space available. They also have a nasty habit of not being attached to railings when you get back.

It's always funny to see those who expect to be provided with space to drive around with four empty seats rail against the possibility of any facilities being provided for other modes.

Shai

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Meanwhile you can lock your bicycle to a railings like you've always done..i can't see Transdev building little houses for scooters..maybe you could buy a Wendy house and use that?

I have no idea what you're on about with the "little houses" comment. I was more thinking along the lines of https://bicycledutch.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/parking-delft.jpg. And people taking the train don't tend to lock their bikes next to the station. They tend to get vandalized and/or stolen.

Shai

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

Can't we have both? It's ridiculous to expect everyone to cycle, scoot or walk everywhere. Mixed mode is however realistic and bike sharing makes this really easy in urban centres. At the other end in the suburbs safe secure parking is needed.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have light rail and metro stations. I'm merely pointing out that having them close to everyone is not possible, and that providing bike friendly parking will allow people who live in the vicinity of such stations to get to them by bike rather than by car.

The Enbalmer

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You should hang around Grand Canal Dock some morning and count the number of people using scooters.

Bikes locked to railings cause problems for people with sight loss and narrow the path space available. They also have a nasty habit of not being attached to railings when you get back.

It's always funny to see those who expect to be provided with space to drive around with four empty seats rail against the possibility of any facilities being provided for other modes.

.


.Why dont all you scooter people pool your dole money and build your own houses for your scooters? That would be proper "green" thinking AND you won't be annoying the taxpayer looking for more and more outlandish concessions.


I'm happy to travel to and from work with my 4 empty seats..I dont bother anybody else and i pay my taxes and tolls.


You're the one with a problem with the way i get myself around..i'm not the one saying you should all throw out your your Frozen scooters and buy a 4-door sedan but i dont see why i should be further (as a taxpayer) funding idiots who go round on scooters and bicycles..especially as cyclists seem to detest people who drive cars..


It's a bit rich cyclists feigning concern for blind people and the taking up of footpath space when they have little regard for anybody else who uses the road.


And btw it's illegal to drive a scooter on a public road..whether it's got glitter and bells or not.

amcalester

Shai wrote: »

I have no idea what you're on about with the "little houses" comment. I was more thinking along the lines of https://bicycledutch.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/parking-delft.jpg. And people taking the train don't tend to lock their bikes next to the station. They tend to get vandalized and/or stolen.

You could probably fit 6 vehicles there, that’s an awful waste of potential car parking space that could be provided to road tax payers.

magicbastarder

amcalester wrote: »

You could probably fit 6 vehicles there, that’s an awful waste of potential car parking space that could be provided to road tax payers.

jobless and homeless people need space to store their vehicles too!

Shai

amcalester wrote: »

You could probably fit 6 vehicles there, that’s an awful waste of potential car parking space that could be provided to road tax payers.

I think it's closer to 12 even. The sad part is that I know you made your comment in jest, but some people here will actually take it at face value.

LeChienMefiant

Shai wrote: »

I'm not saying we shouldn't have light rail and metro stations. I'm merely pointing out that having them close to everyone is not possible, and that providing bike friendly parking will allow people who live in the vicinity of such stations to get to them by bike rather than by car.

I misunderstood.

The Enbalmer

magicbastarder wrote: »

jobless and homeless people need space to store their vehicles too!

Hell they can sleep there while they're at it.

AndrewJRenko

The Enbalmer wrote: »

.Why dont all you scooter people pool your dole money and build your own houses for your scooters? That would be proper "green" thinking AND you won't be annoying the taxpayer looking for more and more outlandish concessions.

I'm happy to travel to and from work with my 4 empty seats..I dont bother anybody else and i pay my taxes and tolls.

You're the one with a problem with the way i get myself around..i'm not the one saying you should all throw out your your Frozen scooters and buy a 4-door sedan but i dont see why i should be further (as a taxpayer) funding idiots who go round on scooters and bicycles..especially as cyclists seem to detest people who drive cars..

It's a bit rich cyclists feigning concern for blind people and the taking up of footpath space when they have little regard for anybody else who uses the road.

And btw it's illegal to drive a scooter on a public road..whether it's got glitter and bells or not.

Why the dripping condescension, loaded with heavy suggestions that scooters are a) childish and b) (and presumably much much worse in your mind) feminine?



As it happens, I'm not 'scooter people'. I'd probably fall off one if I tried. This may be a bit of a head-wreck for you, but some people are capable of seeing the benefits in modes of transport other than the one they use themselves. Judging by what I see around me along the canal and around Grand Canal Dock, they work well for some people. Again, this may be a further head wreck for you, but the more people that use scooters, the less people that use cars - so it would be actually in your benefit to encourage and support people to use other modes of transport.


Your driving your petrol/diesel car absolutely does bother anyone else. You are part of the club that kills 2 or 3 people each week and maims many more. The emissions from your engine are contributing to 30 premature deaths each week due to poor air quality. The fines resulting from your pollution are draining our public coffers. It your taxes came anywhere near paying for the full costs of the damage done by your driving, that would be a small miracle.



I'm interested to know how you concluded that cyclists 'don't respect other road users'? Did you consider the respective death toll caused by motorists (>3,500 over the last 15 years) compared to cyclists (zero over the last 15 years) when you came to this conclusion?



And btw, driving over the speed limit is illegal, but that doesn't seem to bother the 60%-82% of drivers that do this. So if you are actually concerned about illegality, maybe you'd like to work with your fellow drivers to get them to slow down before you come lecturing 'scooter people'?

AndrewJRenko

SeanW wrote: »

All your video showed was that it takes you a few minutes on your bicycle, on your particular route. More power to you as far as I'm concerned, but your experience is not broadly representative.

So I timed a bus today - < 4 minutes from Dame St to O'Connell Bridge - a long way from 30 minutes;


https://streamable.com/pel4i

The Enbalmer

AndrewJRenko wrote:

Your driving your petrol/diesel car absolutely does bother anyone else. You are part of the club that kills 2 or 3 people each week and maims many more. The emissions from your engine are contributing to 30 premature deaths each week due to poor air quality. The fines resulting from your pollution are draining our public coffers. It your taxes came anywhere near paying for the full costs of the damage done by your driving, that would be a small miracle.

I've seen you on the RSA pages on FB almost word for word what you've written too.

You consistently get your ass handed to you on FB so I won't further humiliate you here.

You can't afford a car,I get it.

I cycle myself but I drive to work because I can.

Jealousy is a terrible affliction and making up facts and figures will not change that.

AndrewJRenko

The Enbalmer wrote: »

I've seen you on the RSA pages on FB almost word for word what you've written too.

You consistently get your ass handed to you on FB so I won't further humiliate you here.

You can't afford a car,I get it.

I cycle myself but I drive to work because I can.

Jealousy is a terrible affliction and making up facts and figures will not change that.

Hand away, please do. Let me know which facts and figures you think are 'made up' and I'll be happy to provide the source details.


This might wreck your head a little bit more, but I do actually have a car. And I do actually drive occasionally.


As I explained above, some people are able to see beyond their own narrow experience and understand the realities of the world outside.

upinsmoke

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Hand away, please do. Let me know which facts and figures you think are 'made up' and I'll be happy to provide the source details.


This might wreck your head a little bit more, but I do actually have a car. And I do actually drive occasionally.


As I explained above, some people are able to see beyond their own narrow experience and understand the realities of the world outside.

Its not the Dubs that are causing the traffic congestion, it's the people driving from Kilkenny, Carlow, Laois, Kildare, Wicklow,Galway,Louth, Waterfordetc. because the public transport is brutal and have no other option but to drive and that decent accomadation is now not affordable or overpriced in Dublin. Most people in Dublin can't drive to work

amcalester

upinsmoke wrote: »

Its not the Dubs that are causing the traffic congestion, it's the people driving from Kilkenny, Carlow, Laois, Kildare, Wicklow,Galway,Louth, Waterfordetc. because the public transport is brutal and have no other option but to drive and that decent accomadation is now not affordable or overpriced in Dublin. Most people in Dublin can't drive to work

According to the CSO 44.6% of people in Dublin City and suburbs commute by car.

AndrewJRenko

upinsmoke wrote: »

Its not the Dubs that are causing the traffic congestion, it's the people driving from Kilkenny, Carlow, Laois, Kildare, Wicklow,Galway,Louth, Waterfordetc. because the public transport is brutal and have no other option but to drive and that decent accomadation is now not affordable or overpriced in Dublin. Most people in Dublin can't drive to work

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/more-than-half-of-travellers-use-cars-for-journeys-under-2km-1.2303451

magicbastarder

the working population of dublin city and suburbs is 512k. 382k of that are people who live in dublin city and suburbs, 130k from outside.
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp6ci/p6cii/p6www/

going by amacalester's figure of 44.6% commuting by car, that would be 228,000 dubs commuting within dublin.

these figures do not include the 40k who commute out of dublin to work.

The Enbalmer

These people tend not to be cyclists however.

Narrow-minded,tetchy and aggressive in the main.

Especially the idiots in full leotard and dark glasses on a rainy day..acting like they're in the tour de france.
They won't wear hi-viz because they think it would spoil their "look" but have a heap of facile counter arguments to counter any criticism of their behaviour.

AndrewJRenko

The Enbalmer wrote: »

These people tend not to be cyclists however.

Narrow-minded,tetchy and aggressive in the main.

Though not quite matching the aggression of killing 2 or 3 people each week, right?

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Especially the idiots in full leotard and dark glasses on a rainy day..acting like they're in the tour de france.
They won't wear hi-viz because they think it would spoil their "look" but have a heap of facile counter arguments to counter any criticism of their behaviour.

What is your obsession with lycra all about? Are the people who wear lycra to a run or a football match or to Lidl for shopping all idiots also? Is it safe to spend spend so much time studying the clothing of other people when you're supposed to be watching the road?

And please don't forget to clarify which of those figures you think are 'made up'.

SeanW

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/more-than-half-of-travellers-use-cars-for-journeys-under-2km-1.2303451

So ... the lack of decent, affordable accommodate in Dublin, and the crap, slow, overcrowded or just plain non-existent public transport are not problems?

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

This might wreck your head a little bit more, but I do actually have a car. And I do actually drive occasionally.

And yet, you write about motorists like they are the emissaries of Satan ...

As I explained above, some people are able to see beyond their own narrow experience and understand the realities of the world outside.

This coming from someone who cannot see beyond the handlebars of his bicycle ... the irony indeed.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So I timed a bus today - < 4 minutes from Dame St to O'Connell Bridge - a long way from 30 minutes;


https://streamable.com/pel4i

Awesome - but all it showed is that a bus, in your video a 140, at some time of the day, can do College Green to the quays in 4 minutes. Maybe that particular movement is easier or maybe that particular time there was less traffic, or maybe the whole thing has just gotten WAAAAAAY better in the last 12 months though I highly doubt that.

What would be most interesting is if you took that head-cam onto a 25 bus leaving Merrion Sq. at about 5:45PM-6PM heading for Lucan, and see how long that takes. When I had to do that last year, it took minimum 2 hours of which half an hour of that was trying to get from Pearse St. to Westmoreland St. and beyond. Unless things have improved radically in the last 12 months, you'd need a big memory card for that.

Now, it could be that the beginning of last year was unusually bad, but my memories of using buses to get in and out of Dublin City Centre especially across the Liffey was that it was a nightmare. And that motorist could not be blamed for much of it.

AndrewJRenko

SeanW wrote: »

So ... the lack of decent, affordable accommodate in Dublin, and the crap, slow, overcrowded or just plain non-existent public transport are not problems?

And yet, you write about motorists like they are the emissaries of Satan ...

This coming from someone who cannot see beyond the handlebars of his bicycle ... the irony indeed.

Awesome - but all it showed is that a bus, in your video a 140, at some time of the day

It was rush hour, around 8.30am.

SeanW wrote: »

What would be most interesting is if you took that head-cam onto a 25 bus leaving Merrion Sq. at about 5:45PM-6PM heading for Lucan, and see how long that takes. When I had to do that last year, it took minimum 2 hours of which half an hour of that was trying to get from Pearse St. to Westmoreland St. and beyond. Unless things have improved radically in the last 12 months, you'd need a big memory card for that.

If you want me to do your research for you, then we'll need to agree an hourly rate in advance.

AndrewJRenko

SeanW wrote: »

This coming from someone who cannot see beyond the handlebars of his bicycle ... the irony indeed.

Remind me, which mode of transport have we been debating College Green speeds for?

Pinch Flat

SeanW wrote: »

So ... the lack of decent, affordable accommodate in Dublin, and the crap, slow, overcrowded or just plain non-existent public transport are not problems?

And yet, you write about motorists like they are the emissaries of Satan ...

This coming from someone who cannot see beyond the handlebars of his bicycle ... the irony indeed.

Awesome - but all it showed is that a bus, in your video a 140, at some time of the day, can do College Green to the quays in 4 minutes. Maybe that particular movement is easier or maybe that particular time there was less traffic, or maybe the whole thing has just gotten WAAAAAAY better in the last 12 months though I highly doubt that.

What would be most interesting is if you took that head-cam onto a 25 bus leaving Merrion Sq. at about 5:45PM-6PM heading for Lucan, and see how long that takes. When I had to do that last year, it took minimum 2 hours of which half an hour of that was trying to get from Pearse St. to Westmoreland St. and beyond. Unless things have improved radically in the last 12 months, you'd need a big memory card for that.

Now, it could be that the beginning of last year was unusually bad, but my memories of using buses to get in and out of Dublin City Centre especially across the Liffey was that it was a nightmare. And that motorist could not be blamed for much of it.

What do you think is the main factor impacting on an inefficient bus system in Dublin? I’m guessing people travelling to the city in 20% full vehicles has a lot to do with it. And where bus lanes are provided, motorists still insist on using them.

That’s the circular argument about bus transport in Dublin. People who insist on driving to the city centre say they won’t use buses because they’re slow. Yet they’re part of the problem contributing to this. There’s an attitude that I can do it my car, but when 100,000 other people do it it kind of screws it up for everyone.

The Enbalmer

Pinch Flat wrote:

That’s the circular argument about bus transport in Dublin. People who insist on driving to the city centre say they won’t use buses because they’re slow. Yet they’re part of the problem contributing to this. There’s an attitude that I can do it my car, but when 100,000 other people do it it kind of screws it up for everyone.

That's what cars are for.
I bought my car with money I worked for,I'll drive it to town if I want.

Seems to me cyclists are the problem if your mindset is anything to go by.

Cyclists should have compulsory insurance, should be made to sit a proficiency test and display registration numbers just like car drivers so when a cyclist causes an accident or damages a vehicle they can't just pedal away from the scene without sanction.

Additionally there should be on the spot fines for cyclists using footpaths,breaking red lights and travelling the wrong way through traffic.

If you people want to be treated as proper road users you should be penalized for breaking the rules..just like everyone else.

The Enbalmer

AndrewJRenko wrote:

Though not quite matching the aggression of killing 2 or 3 people each week, right?

How many of those people were cyclists breaking lights?
I note on the cycling forum it is forbidden to blame cyclists for any accidents they may be involved in...that summarises the mindset of bicycle riders very nicely.

LeinsterDub

The Enbalmer wrote: »

That's what cars are for.
I bought my car with money I worked for,I'll drive it to town if I want.

Seems to me cyclists are the problem if your mindset is anything to go by.

Cyclists should have compulsory insurance, should be made to sit a proficiency test and display registration numbers just like car drivers so when a cyclist causes an accident or damages a vehicle they can't just pedal away from the scene without sanction.

Additionally there should be on the spot fines for cyclists using footpaths,breaking red lights and travelling the wrong way through traffic.

If you people want to be treated as proper road users you should be penalized for breaking the rules..just like everyone else.

Cars have insurance, tax and registration..... Ever hear about a hit and run? Surely you mean on the spot fines for any road users breaking the law? How many accidents per annum are caused by cyclist and what was the outcome?

Pinch Flat

The Enbalmer wrote: »

That's what cars are for.
I bought my car with money I worked for,I'll drive it to town if I want.

Seems to me cyclists are the problem if your mindset is anything to go by.

Cyclists should have compulsory insurance, should be made to sit a proficiency test and display registration numbers just like car drivers so when a cyclist causes an accident or damages a vehicle they can't just pedal away from the scene without sanction.

Additionally there should be on the spot fines for cyclists using footpaths,breaking red lights and travelling the wrong way through traffic.

If you people want to be treated as proper road users you should be penalized for breaking the rules..just like everyone else.

Ah the oul cycling rant. Where do you start? And what do they have to do with congestion in Dublin? A cyclist is one less car, making more space for you to enjoy your traffic jam in your car you’ve worked hard for.

Assume you’ve no issues paying a 8% levy for the 150,000 uninsured motorists you share the road with? And what will insurance for cyclists do for traffic congestion? Complete straw mans.

You’re right - you worked hard for your car and you’re justifying its use. It’s just when 100,000 people in 20% full cars have the same idea is where the major congestion problem arises.”I’m stuck in this jam I’ve helped create, who can I blame?”.

Shai

The Enbalmer wrote: »

How many of those people were cyclists breaking lights?
I note on the cycling forum it is forbidden to blame cyclists for any accidents they may be involved in...that summarises the mindset of bicycle riders very nicely.

None. Unless you have any data to show otherwise? Which you don't of course.

Also, nope, it's not forbidden. Making more stuff up again to nail yourself to your own cross?

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Additionally there should be on the spot fines for cyclists using footpaths,breaking red lights and travelling the wrong way through traffic.

I wasn't aware cyclist couldn't get fines for this? Are you making things up again? I'm pretty sure cyclist would love to see the Garda Traffic Corps become more active in penalising offences.

Shai

SeanW wrote: »

What would be most interesting is if you took that head-cam onto a 25 bus leaving Merrion Sq. at about 5:45PM-6PM heading for Lucan, and see how long that takes. When I had to do that last year, it took minimum 2 hours of which half an hour of that was trying to get from Pearse St. to Westmoreland St. and beyond. Unless things have improved radically in the last 12 months, you'd need a big memory card for that.

Now, it could be that the beginning of last year was unusually bad, but my memories of using buses to get in and out of Dublin City Centre especially across the Liffey was that it was a nightmare. And that motorist could not be blamed for much of it.

This is getting pretty pathetic. After claiming that College Green is a total nightmare for public transport and being proving wrong repeatedly, you have now retreated to "This one particular bus route I was on over a year ago had issues sometimes. You should go and investigate if this is still the case." The reality is that Andrew has put more effort in this thread into investigating your claim than you ever have. Either put in some effort to prove your point or just admit you're wrong already.