Dublin ranks 3rd in terms of the amount of time spent in cars due to congestion

Shai

SeanW wrote: »

This coming from someone who cannot see beyond the handlebars of his bicycle ... the irony indeed.

Here's a simple question: Andrew has a car and has shown himself traversing College Green on bike and bus. So that pretty much covers most modes of transportation. Now let's ask you something: what's your experience cycling in Dublin exactly? Are you sure your above claim is not yourself doing some major projecting?

sharper

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why the dripping condescension, loaded with heavy suggestions that scooters are a) childish and b) (and presumably much much worse in your mind) feminine?

It's similar to the "smoking is cool" attitude driven via advertising - the car industry has been reasonably successful at getting people to connect their mode of transport to their personal identity.

In the US it's much more successful, look at how unnecessarily large and inefficient their road traffic is. They look down on Europeans that cycle or use scooters, perceiving them as as weak and less manly. You also saw it here especially during the boom when people were 4x4s as an indicator of wealth and status.

The effect of this attitude is great for the profits of car companies but miserable for city planning and overall happiness of inhabitants. Make no mistake, if there was a door-to-door metro for everyone there are those that would only see it as an opportunity to drive their car on empty roads.

Electric vehicles are absolutely the future, for no other reason than fossil fuels are running out. Smaller electric vehicles like scooters, bikes and even skateboards make enormous amounts of sense for getting people around efficiently and pleasantly. Metro lines are for moving very large numbers of people, they simply cannot account for all point to point journeys.

Pinch Flat

sharper wrote: »

It's similar to the "smoking is cool" attitude driven via advertising - the car industry has been reasonably successful at getting people to connect their mode of transport to their personal identity.

In the US it's much more successful, look at how unnecessarily large and inefficient their road traffic is. They look down on Europeans that cycle or use scooters, perceiving them as as weak and less manly. You also saw it here especially during the boom when people were 4x4s as an indicator of wealth and status.

The effect of this attitude is great for the profits of car companies but miserable for city planning and overall happiness of inhabitants. Make no mistake, if there was a door-to-door metro for everyone there are those that would only see it as an opportunity to drive their car on empty roads....

That's why you'll never see the car adverts with the reality of the gridlock and misery mass car commuting causes. It's usually someone whizzing down an empty city street, or an open road full of the joys of life, in the latest car model. The reality can be some what different.

For those wedded to the car as their own personal magic carpet to get them from A to B, it must be hugely disappointing to sit in a car for hours every day travelling in single digits per hour averages. But hey, they've worked hard for it.

sharper

Pinch Flat wrote: »

For those wedded to the car as their own personal magic carpet to get them from A to B, it must be hugely disappointing to sit in a car for hours every day travelling in single digits per hour averages. But hey, they've worked hard for it.

Of course and people should be able to drive if they choose.

That doesn't mean their choice should be prioritised for resources over more efficient means though.

There's a fundamental perception issue at play here though. There are some motorists that perceive busses and cyclists as "taking up space" without realising those people will always still exist and need to get from A to B too. Them taking the bus or bike is far better for them than taking a car.

Ray Bloody Purchase

The Enbalmer wrote: »

How many of those people were cyclists breaking lights?
I note on the cycling forum it is forbidden to blame cyclists for any accidents they may be involved in...that summarises the mindset of bicycle riders very nicely.

Relax dude. What has you so upset with cyclists?

Are you a taxi driver by any chance?

AndrewJRenko

The Enbalmer wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote:

Though not quite matching the aggression of killing 2 or 3 people each week, right?

How many of those people were cyclists breaking lights?

None in the past 5 or 10 years, to the best of my knowledge - but feel free to post details of any such cases that you know of.

Pinch Flat

Ray Bloody Purchase wrote: »

Relax dude. What has you so upset with cyclists?

Are you a taxi driver by any chance?

I think he has a Lycra fetish. Seems to come up a lot.

AndrewJRenko

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Additionally there should be on the spot fines for cyclists using footpaths,breaking red lights and travelling the wrong way through traffic.

Something like these fines perhaps?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/nearly-600-cyclists-fined-under-new-penalty-regime-1.2631593

Ray Bloody Purchase

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I think he has a Lycra fetish. Seems to come up a lot.

He's probably a closet cyclist.

blackwhite

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Nobody wants to go to work on a kid's scooter...rail and metros have been transporting people for over 100 years..its a transportation system that works and one that people will use for years to come.


Meanwhile you can lock your bicycle to a railings like you've always done..i can't see Transdev building little houses for scooters..maybe you could buy a Wendy house and use that?

SNCF are happy to do so in Paris.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@48.8868143,2.1714898,3a,26.6y,353.98h,89.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shjWkwYzyuWohRshvkuKe1Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Zoom in behind the bus and there's a large secure bike parking area - pre-booked spaces

http://veligo.transilien.com/fr/articles.php (in French, but chrome can tranlate it for you )

blackwhite

The Enbalmer wrote: »

.Why dont all you scooter people pool your dole money and build your own houses for your scooters? That would be proper "green" thinking AND you won't be annoying the taxpayer looking for more and more outlandish concessions.


I'm happy to travel to and from work with my 4 empty seats..I dont bother anybody else and i pay my taxes and tolls.

TBH - I'd say you contribute quite a lot of bother to all the other folk stuck in traffic jams (just as they do to you) - you just don't realise it.

I've a very nice €40k car (purchased new 2 years ago) parked outside my house right now, because it takes me 30 min to cycle to work, compared to nearly an hour to drive in.

The reason it takes an hour to drive in, is because of all the single-occupancy cars trying to drive in at the same time.

For some it's necessary to drive in due to their work or other commitments; for some it's the most time-efficient way in; but for plenty they would actually be better off either using public transport or cycling, but simply don't want to.

Policy should be directed as pushing the 3rd type of person to change their method of commuting.
It's actually better for them, and also makes the commute easier for those for whom driving remains the best/most efficient option.

The Enbalmer wrote: »

.
And btw it's illegal to drive a scooter on a public road

Only a mechanically propelled one. The old-school ones powered by foot are treated the same as bikes.

AndrewJRenko

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Pinch Flat wrote:

That’s the circular argument about bus transport in Dublin. People who insist on driving to the city centre say they won’t use buses because they’re slow. Yet they’re part of the problem contributing to this. There’s an attitude that I can do it my car, but when 100,000 other people do it it kind of screws it up for everyone.

Cyclists should have compulsory insurance, should be made to sit a proficiency test and display registration numbers just like car drivers so when a cyclist causes an accident or damages a vehicle they can't just pedal away from the scene without sanction.

Do pedestrians need registration, insurance and licensing too, given that they cause collisions by stepping out in front of traffic all ipodded up without looking?

donvito99

Problem - Dublin has unholy levels of congestion.

Solution 1 - tax cyclists off the road because lycra or something. Make it cheaper for me to drive my living room in and park it wherever I want because I paid for the car didn't I. Get rid of the bus lanes because more space for cars. Get rid of pedestrian crossings because they should also be in cars. Fill in the canal and make it an elevated highway. Traffic problem solved.

Solution 2 - discourage traffic i.e. cars. Problem solved.

Pinch Flat

donvito99 wrote: »

Solution 1 - tax cyclists off the road because lycra or something. Make it cheaper for me to drive my living room in and park it wherever I want because I paid for the car didn't I. Get rid of the bus lanes because more space for cars. Get rid of pedestrian crossings because they should also be in cars. Fill in the canal and make it an elevated highway. Traffic problem solved.

Sad thing is, a lot of motorists would think this is serious. Don't underestimate Joe Public who wants to drive from his 3 bed semi in Lucan to the office door in Dublin 2.

The Enbalmer

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do pedestrians need registration, insurance and licensing too, given that they cause collisions by stepping out in front of traffic all ipodded up without looking?

Pedestrians are not Road users they cross the roads but they do not travel on the roads.

I beleive you were told this numerous times when you were trolling the RSA pages on FB.

sharper

donvito99 wrote: »

Solution 1 - tax cyclists off the road because lycra or something. Make it cheaper for me to drive my living room in and park it wherever I want because I paid for the car didn't I. Get rid of the bus lanes because more space for cars. Get rid of pedestrian crossings because they should also be in cars. Fill in the canal and make it an elevated highway. Traffic problem solved.

People don't appreciate orders of magnitude. In the past as car usage doubled road space increased to accommodate it. This has happened so many times it's hard to appreciate why the line needs to be drawn here and why it's impossible to just keep making more motorways.

AndrewJRenko

The Enbalmer wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do pedestrians need registration, insurance and licensing too, given that they cause collisions by stepping out in front of traffic all ipodded up without looking?

Pedestrians are not Road users they cross the roads but they do not travel on the roads.

Doesn't really matter what you call them - they cause collisions by stepping out in front of traffic without looking. So would you be pushing for them to have mandatory licencing, registration and insurance, based on your proposal for cyclists?

PhilOssophy

Dublin needs to go up. Until it does, in particular between the canals where young people want to live and work, this madness will continue.
There are lots of young people living in suburbia who would gladly live in high-density developments in town if they were 1. affordable 2. well built.
This frees up suburbia for families. It takes some pressure off our creaking public transport system.

The Enbalmer

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Doesn't really matter what you call them -

It very much does.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

they cause collisions by stepping out in front of traffic without looking. So would you be pushing for them to have mandatory licencing, registration and insurance, based on your proposal for cyclists?

So you've now deflected onto pedestrians to avoid criticism of cyclists?


Can pedestrians travel at 30km per hour?

John_Rambo

The Enbalmer wrote: »

So you've now deflected onto pedestrians to avoid criticism of cyclists?

Can you put this claptrap to bed and provide some stats on how dangerous cyclists are instead of silly nonsensical posts?

Chew on this one while you search, it's the brake stats recorded from Transdec, the people that operate the LUAS.

https://extra.ie/2018/11/05/news/irish-news/luas-emegency-brake-550-times

Figures from Luas operator Transdev show drivers in 2018 have hit the brakes
266 times to avoid cars
223 times to avoid pedestrians and
61 times to avoid cyclists in the tram’s path

The Enbalmer

John_Rambo wrote: »

Figures from Luas operator Transdev show drivers in 2018 have hit the brakes
266 times to avoid cars
223 times to avoid pedestrians and
61 times to avoid cyclists in the tram’s path

.



So roughly three times more for cars than bikes but there are hundreds of times more cars.

magicbastarder

literally hundreds of times more.

and that's actually over four times as many braking incidents for cars as for bikes. which is 'roughly three times' if you're not paying much attention.

The Enbalmer

magicbastarder wrote: »

literally hundreds of times more.

and that's actually over four times as many braking incidents for cars as for bikes. which is 'roughly three times' if you're not paying much attention.

Speaking of not paying attention..i've noticed a trend amongst cyclists lately of watching youtube on their phones as they cycle.



Le me guess..car drivers do that too?

Shai

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Speaking of not paying attention..i've noticed a trend amongst cyclists lately of watching youtube on their phones as they cycle.



Le me guess..car drivers do that too?

I'm sure that's entirely true and not a complete bunch of hokum. You know, like your claims of cyclists not getting fined for breaking the rules of the road. Or the cycling forum not allowing putting blame on cyclists for accidents they were involved in. And who could forget the insipid drivel that was your claim that cyclists getting killed by cars is because of cyclists breaking lights.

All beautiful gems of highly polished nonsense and fabrication produced by yourself just a few pages ago.

AndrewJRenko

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Can pedestrians travel at 30km per hour?

Probably not. What's that got to do with their ability to cause collisions - which was your rationale for requiring mandatory licensing, registration and insurance for cyclists?

AndrewJRenko

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Speaking of not paying attention..i've noticed a trend amongst cyclists lately of watching youtube on their phones as they cycle.

How do get to see the screen of their phone clearly enough to know what they're watching from the seat of your four door sedan? Wouldn't their phone be above your level?

amcalester

Shai wrote: »

I'm sure that's entirely true and not a complete bunch of hokum. You know, like your claims of cyclists not getting fined for breaking the rules of the road. Or the cycling forum not allowing putting blame on cyclists for accidents they were involved in. And who could forget the insipid drivel that was your claim that cyclists getting killed by cars is because of cyclists breaking lights.

All beautiful gems of highly polished nonsense and fabrication produced by yourself just a few pages ago.

You missed his claim that pedestrians aren't road users. :rolleyes:

AndrewJRenko

The Enbalmer wrote: »

.



So roughly three times more for cars than bikes but there are hundreds of times more cars.

Where did you get 'hundreds of times more cars' from?

John_Rambo

The Enbalmer wrote: »

.

So roughly three times more for cars than bikes but there are hundreds of times more cars.

In some parts of the city there's more cyclists than cars dude!

Anyway, get those stats to back up your interesting and amusing anecdotes.

Here's another (actual statistic) for you.

https://www.thejournal.ie/cyclists-dublin-3018953-Oct2016/

Gardaí catch 24 times more Dublin motorists than cyclists breaking red lights

The Enbalmer

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How do get to see the screen of their phone clearly enough to know what they're watching from the seat of your four door sedan? Wouldn't their phone be above your level?

Oh didnt i tell you? I often walk and sometimes cycle too...amazing what you can see when you open your eyes.

AndrewJRenko

The Enbalmer wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How do get to see the screen of their phone clearly enough to know what they're watching from the seat of your four door sedan? Wouldn't their phone be above your level?

Oh didnt i tell you? I often walk and sometimes cycle too...amazing what you can see when you open your eyes.

No, you didn't say that before, until you were backed into a corner, surprisingly enough.

Stephen15

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Doesn't really matter what you call them - they cause collisions by stepping out in front of traffic without looking. So would you be pushing for them to have mandatory licencing, registration and insurance, based on your proposal for cyclists?

And so do animals, trees and other debris

The Enbalmer

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No, you didn't say that before, until you were backed into a corner, surprisingly enough.

Yes..funny that i don't style my entire existence on any one method of traveling.




I wonder would there be much interest in a Pedestrians forum?


I could moderate it and ban anybody who accuses another user of jaywalking.

Shai

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Yes..funny that i don't style my entire existence on any one method of traveling.




I wonder would there be much interest in a Pedestrians forum?


I could moderate it and ban anybody who accuses another user of jaywalking.

We're all still waiting with bated breath for you to back up any of your earlier claims. I'm sure that's coming along any minute now and you're not actually the stereotypical example of a drive-by ****poster.

In the meantime, let me get you some more wood and nails for that cross you're trying to hammer yourself onto.

The Enbalmer

Shai wrote: »

We're all still waiting with bated breath for you to back up any of your earlier claims. I'm sure that's coming along any minute now and you're not actually the stereotypical example of a drive-by ****poster.

What's this We business pilgrim?


Do you mean you and a few others from the cycling forum using your second account to snipe without harming your standing amongst the MAMILS?


Rather than me "back up my claims" perhaps you would care to refute them? That should release some of your pent-up tension.


Did you hear that Youtube arsehole Cycling Micky was arrested and cautioned for not wearing a helmet? It made me sad that he didn't film the humiliating exchange.

John_Rambo

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Rather than me "back up my claims" perhaps you would care to refute them?

Hi there Enbalmer, I put up statistics to refute your claims. Can you (for the third time) put your money where your mouth is and come up with some stats that prove cyclists are dangerous in Dublin city?

Thanks.

Shai

The Enbalmer wrote: »

What's this We business pilgrim?

Do you mean you and a few others from the cycling forum using your second account to snipe without harming your standing amongst the MAMILS?

Rather than me "back up my claims" perhaps you would care to refute them? That should release some of your pent-up tension.

Did you hear that Youtube arsehole Cycling Micky was arrested and cautioned for not wearing a helmet? It made me sad that he didn't film the humiliating exchange.

Yeah, we're not actually playing by internet troll rules here where you get to spout random drivel and the rest of us have to prove you wrong. Perhaps you can find the time to stop squatting over your keyboard, pull up your trousers, and back up your claim where you state that cyclists who got killed by cars were breaking red lights. That one was particularly vile.

edit: John Rambo is a more patient man than I am

The Enbalmer

Shai wrote: »

Yeah, we're not actually playing by internet troll rules here where you get to spout random dribble and the rest of us have to prove you wrong. Perhaps you can find the time to stop squatting over your keyboard, pull up your trousers, and back up your claim where you state that cyclists who got killed by cars were breaking red lights. That one was particularly vile.

edit: John Rambo is a more patient man than I am

Sigh


Yawn


Linky




Other linky


And another

Pinch Flat

Ah man. These threads. Always great fun. People stuck in traffic getting frustrated and taking it out on cyclists who cause zero congestion. You’d think they’d be more grateful and turn their frustration in their fellow 20% full car occupants in front of them. Anyway, only going to be more cyclists o the roads for the foreseeable future. The amount of cyclists out these past few days-lovely weather. Meanwhile, Dublin’s bean canners are stuck in traffic.

Cookie_Monster

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Did you hear that Youtube arsehole Cycling Micky was arrested and cautioned for not wearing a helmet? It made me sad that he didn't film the humiliating exchange.

I doubt that, it's not even an offence unless he happened to be in Aus or NZ

Thargor

I must say in 8 years of Dublin/Bray cycling commuting Ive never seen anyone watching a Youtube video on their phone while pedaling! Not sure how that would work, thats a quality stream of trolling BS in your last few posts Enbalmer, 9-10 easily proven lies in a row...

Pinch Flat

Thargor wrote: »

I must say in 8 years of Dublin/Bray cycling commuting Ive never seen anyone watching a Youtube video on their phone while pedaling! Not sure how that would work, thats a quality stream of trolling BS in your last few posts Enbalmer, 9-10 easily proven lies in a row...

Fair play to the motorist who was live streaming the Ireland - Denmark game on an iPad mounted on his steering wheel a while back. Managed to join in a few minutes of the action looking over his shoulder until the lights went green. Ireland we’lre getting some decent possession. Disappointing match admittedly.

AndrewJRenko

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Sigh


Yawn


Linky




Other linky


And another

You do know that this is boards.ie, not boards.uk, right? You couldn't find any relevant Irish statistics then - didn't think so.

But if you do want to talk about the UK, we should probably start with the 4 or 5 people killed each day by motorists there. Just stop for a moment and take that in - 4 or 5 people killed each day on UK roads.

John_Rambo

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Sigh
Yawn

Linky

Other linky

And another

Yeah, yawn is right. I can find articles from all over the world that tell us horse riding, rugby, tiddly winks, darts and cycling can be dangerous to participants and others. That's life, what are you going to do? Never leave the house?

So... (for the forth time) can you back up your claims that cyclists are a danger and indeed more dangerous than cars in Dublin city with proper statistics??

Remember I've put two links from the city that prove cyclists are the more skilled and safer road users in the city.

The Enbalmer

Thargor wrote:

I must say in 8 years of Dublin/Bray cycling commuting Ive never seen anyone watching a Youtube video on their phone while pedaling! Not sure how that would work, thats a quality stream of trolling BS in your last few posts Enbalmer, 9-10 easily proven lies in a row...

Anybody I saw doing it had a thing on the bike to sit the phone onto.

I hope you're not calling me a liar?

I should've taken pics but I guess photographing strangers to prove a point just isn't my thing.

John_Rambo

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Anybody I saw doing it had a thing on the bike to sit the phone onto.

I hope you're not calling me a liar?

I should've taken pics but I guess photographing strangers to prove a point just isn't my thing.

Were they not on Strava? Not calling you a liar, just confused and maybe a bit of a spoofer.

The Enbalmer

John_Rambo wrote:

Remember I've put two links from the city that prove cyclists are the more skilled and safer road users in the city.

We'll if that isn't the most monumental arrogance I really don't what is.

Tell me,how do cyclists measure their competence and safety level?

Do cyclists take a test like motorists?

Do they need some sort of training before they get on their bicycle now?

News to me and everybody else.

The Enbalmer

AndrewJRenko wrote:

You do know that this is boards.ie, not boards.uk, right? You couldn't find any relevant Irish statistics then - didn't think so.

Ah you're right..everything is different across the water.

Did somebody specify Ireland when they were demanding statistics?

Do you see my point about the mindset of cyclists? They absolutely refuse to acknowledge that they may occasionally be in the wrong...car drivers,pedestrians, everybody else will admit to occasionally lapping with regard to their safety or behaviour but cyclists circle the wagons and throw up this sort of stuff rather than just read the articles and maybe learn from them.

John_Rambo

The Enbalmer wrote: »

We'll if that isn't the most monumental arrogance I really don't what is.

Your opinion, but like most of them on this thread, laughable.

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Tell me,how do cyclists measure their competence and safety level?

In this case hard statistics. I posted up two. Read them.

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Do cyclists take a test like motorists?

Most hold a drivers license. And cyclists actually make better drivers than non-cyclists. Here's more stats from a study done on the subject.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2018/10/09/cyclists-are-better-drivers-than-motorists-finds-study/

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Do they need some sort of training before they get on their bicycle now?

Most are fairly skilled, their lives depend on the skills, don't forget your average fender bender for a cyclists can mean a broken back.

The Enbalmer wrote: »

News to me and everybody else.

Indeed, news to you. This thread has been an education for you. You don't speak for everyone else pilgrim.

For the fifth time, can you put your money where your mouth is and find some info and stats that prove cyclists are a danger, or indeed a bigger danger than cars are in Dublin city?

AndrewJRenko

The Enbalmer wrote: »

We'll if that isn't the most monumental arrogance I really don't what is.

Tell me,how do cyclists measure their competence and safety level?

Do cyclists take a test like motorists?

Do they need some sort of training before they get on their bicycle now?

News to me and everybody else.

They can measure their safety level by the number of people they kill. If you're fond of UK statistics, cyclists kill one or two people each year over there, compared to 4 or 5 people killed each day by motorists (1700+ each year). If you prefer Irish statistics, it is more than 15 years since a cyclist killed a motorist here. Over that same period, motorists killed more than 3,500 people.


But why would you be comparing cyclists and motorists at all? Are you suggesting that the same rules should apply to all road users?

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Ah you're right..everything is different across the water.

Did somebody specify Ireland when they were demanding statistics?

Do you see my point about the mindset of cyclists? They absolutely refuse to acknowledge that they may occasionally be in the wrong...car drivers,pedestrians, everybody else will admit to occasionally lapping with regard to their safety or behaviour but cyclists circle the wagons and throw up this sort of stuff rather than just read the articles and maybe learn from them.

Where did anyone refuse to acknowledge that cyclists may be occasionally in the wrong. I'm very happy to acknowledge that cyclists may be occasionally in the wrong. Now can we move on to cover the real dangers on the road - the motorists who kill 2 or 3 people each week?