YouTube announces it will no longer recommend conspiracy videos

King Mob

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's just another example of the endless dishonesty, cropping information, "playing dumb", never going and getting the information that's readily available, asking the same answered questions, demanding people "prove the Holocaust" - rejecting it anyway.

And then meanwhile when asked questions about their theory or asked to explain their reasoning or provide evidence, we get nothing but stonewalls, evasions and accusations that "we're stifling free speech like nazis"...

Cheerful Spring2

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Did you not read the website that you got that from? Why only post that small snippet?

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/documenting-numbers-of-victims-of-the-holocaust-and-nazi-persecution



They even explain on the site how they reached those numbers yet you seem.to have difficulty understanding this

Of course, i noticed. 
In  many ways, you guys fail again to understand what they say in that quote.

Maybe, have not noticed I showed documentation ( example pre-war population census numbers figures!)
Is there Axis and German notes, files and records, showing six million Jews died during the holocaust period? No, there isn’t any evidence, the US holocaust memorial site readily admits there no Nazi information/ records indicating their projections are accurate.
You are left with pre-war investigations. Now show how me how they complied the numbers at each camp? How did know who killed Jews when and Where. The weeds are ignored by debunkers.

Timberrrrrrrr

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Of course, i noticed. 
In  many ways, you guys fail again to understand what they say in that quote.

Maybe, have not noticed I showed documentation ( example pre-war population census numbers figures!)
Is there Axis and German notes, files and records, showing six million Jews died during the holocaust period? No, there isn’t any evidence, the US holocaust memorial site readily admits there no Nazi information/ records indicating their projections are accurate.
You are left with pre-war investigations. Now show how me how they complied the numbers at each camp? How did know who killed Jews when and Where. The weeds are ignored by debunkers.

Why do you always demand impossible evidence yet always, always ALWAYS avoid answering even the most simple of questions?

In your world, your feeling/thoughts have more validation than over 70 years of investigations, documentation and proof.

You really are beyond help, you have my pity.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Of course, i noticed. 
In  many ways, you guys fail again to understand what they say in that quote.

Maybe, have not noticed I showed documentation ( example pre-war population census numbers figures!)
Is there Axis and German notes, files and records, showing six million Jews died during the holocaust period? No, there isn’t any evidence, the US holocaust memorial site readily admits there no Nazi information/ records indicating their projections are accurate.

There is evidence. That's how they've determined approximately how many have died.

You are left with pre-war investigations.

Absolutely not.

Now show how me how they complied the numbers at each camp? How did know who killed Jews when and Where. The weeds are ignored by debunkers.

"Prove it to me, I'll never accept it"

No.

Why are you not seeking this information in a genuine matter?

It's very simple, log into any history site, e.g. reddit/r/askahistorian and ask how they knew how many Jews died at e.g. Treblinka

It takes less than one minute to do that. Why are you avoiding doing that?

Cheerful Spring2

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Why do you always demand impossible evidence yet always, always ALWAYS avoid answering even the most simple of questions?

In your world, your feeling/thoughts have more validation than over 70 years of investigations, documentation and proof.

You really are beyond help, you have my pity.

You’re lying to yourself. There no documentation.
When i asked for documentation about the Holocaust.

Kingmob posted a 1940 document.

Even though its historical fact the genocide (holocaust) started sometime after 1942. 

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

You’re lying to yourself. There no documentation.
When i asked for documentation about the Holocaust.

Kingmob posted a 1940 document.

Even though its historical fact the genocide (holocaust) started sometime after 1942. 

Why are you not seeking this information on a history forum?

Another minute you've wasted in which you could have signed up and asked directly, and engaged in follow up questions.

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Why are you not seeking this information on a history forum?

Another minute you've wasted in which you could have signed up and asked directly, and engaged in follow up questions.

Who started the discussion about the holocaust on this thread? It was a topic you and your mate wanted to discuss.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Even though its historical fact the genocide (holocaust) started sometime after 1942. 

The Holocaust, also known as the Shoah, was the World War II genocide of the European Jews. Between 1941 and 1945, across German-occupied Europe, Nazi Germany and its collaborators systematically murdered some six million Jews, around two-thirds of Europe's Jewish population.[a][c]

Lol.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Who started the discussion about the holocaust on this thread? It was a topic you and your mate wanted to discuss.

More tricks and evasion

If you genuinely want answers on the Holocaust, ask on a history forum. It takes a minute to sign up.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Who started the discussion about the holocaust on this thread? It was a topic you and your mate wanted to discuss.

Nope. I brought up holocaust denial as an example of a conspiracy theory that most people believe to be nonsense.
I had no desire to discuss the particulars of it as it wasn't my point.

You barging in with your anti-historical claims and silliness have helped illustrate my point however.

Cheerful Spring2

Kingmob knows nothing about the Holocaust and be shown time and again.

Wannsee conference
https://www.yadvashem.org/holocaust/about/final-solution-beginning/wannsee-conference.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw7e_0BRB7EiwAlH-goPesy-a9ml_CvXVL2J7TCYT0blqVc9gCTK3_TzItvOjfb3QsrpyVLxoCnUQQAvD_BwE

Timberrrrrrrr

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

You’re lying to yourself. There no documentation.
When i asked for documentation about the Holocaust.

Kingmob posted a 1940 document.

Even though its historical fact the genocide (holocaust) started sometime after 1942. 

As I said, you are beyond help.

Bad enough that you consistently lie to others but the fact that you lie to yourself tells me that you will never be willing to learn.

Again, you have my pity.

nullzero

King Mob wrote: »

That cheerful wasn't a holocaust denier and was just suggesting differences in methods of Jewish deaths.


But I have answered your question.
What you accuse me of saying and what I've actually said are two different things.

You keep complaining about others doing that, yet repeatedly do the same thing.
That game is silly and I'm done playing it.

You haven't directly stated that cheerful is a holocaust denier. I believe that this is a very petty attempt to avoid admitting your mistake in attempting to defend him before you snookered yourself.
I think that if we haven't nailed you down to a definition of what holocaust denial was, you'd still be arguing that cheerful wasn't a holocaust denier and his opinion was acceptable.
After all, like you said "he isn't totally denying the holocaust happened."

When Cheerful started venturing into holocaust denial I stated I disagreed with him. He states he doesn't deny the holocaust happened yet for me he's a holocaust denier by virtue of what he argues in relation to the topic.
You didn't nail me down to anything, I reached that conclusion without your "help".
You accused me of walking back on what I had said, when in reality I changed my position based on where Cheerful took the conversation after I initially stated his position was reasonable.

As for silly games being played, I'm afraid you began that process by taking artistic licence with what I had said. I asked you to provide quotes from me supporting Cheerful after he started talking about people "dissappearing". Those quotes don't exist, we both know that and as a result you have refused to provide up to date quotes that relate to the discussion that were made after I stated I disagreed with Cheerful.
You're done playing those games because they don't suit you, you can't substantiate what you said so your only option now is to bluff your way out.

Cheerful made some reference to you "gaslighting" people and to be honest I took it with a grain of salt as you two obviously have axes to grind with each other, but this has proved to be accurate.

You're posting things I said out of order, thus confusing the context in which I said things. This is a decidedly underhand tactic, it shows me saying something without showing what point in the discussion it occured and how I adjusted my stance on Cheerful in light of things he said after I said what you've quoted me as saying. You have skewed the timeline to suit yourself, who's going to bother reading through 30 pages of this rubbish to see what order things were said in? Leave it a few days quote some posts out of context and all of a sudden I'm contradicting myself.

Like I've said repeatedly, show me where I walked back on my position in this discussion. Just one example within the parameters of my posting after the Jews "dissappearing" content from Cheerful.

Cheerful Spring2

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

As I said, you are beyond help.

Bad enough that you consistently lie to others but the fact that you lie to yourself tells me that you will never be willing to learn.

Again, you have my pity.

He posted 1940 document as proof six milion died.
A 1941 or 1942 document is evidence.

King Mob

nullzero wrote: »

He states he doesn't deny the holocaust happened yet for me he's a holocaust denier by virtue of what he argues in relation to the topic.

Yay. Finally.

Timberrrrrrrr

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

He posted 1940 document as proof six milion died.
A 1941 or 1942 document is evidence.

And you posted a link to a website, that's your evidence! A link, nothing more, you are lazy, you are dishonest and you have never debated in good faith.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

He posted 1940 document as proof six milion died.

Again, that's not what happened. You are misrepresenting things...
:rolleyes:

Dohnjoe

nullzero wrote: »

When Cheerful started venturing into holocaust denial I stated I disagreed with him. He states he doesn't deny the holocaust happened yet for me he's a holocaust denier by virtue of what he argues in relation to the topic.

Would you there is any point in engaging with a Holocaust denier like Cheerful on a public forum, or is it pointless?

Are they hopelessly ill-informed and illogical about the subject and that's it?

nullzero

King Mob wrote: »

Yay. Finally.

Any chance of you providing evidence of what you've said about me?

nullzero

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Would you there is any point in engaging with a Holocaust denier like Cheerful on a public forum, or is it pointless?

Are they hopelessly ill-informed and illogical about the subject and that's it?

Would you there?

You've engaged with him more than anyone (other than king mob) so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

Your entire raison d'etre is to engage with people on these topics, so are you arguing that you shouldn't do that?

King Mob

nullzero wrote: »

Any chance of you providing evidence of what you've said about me?

Either I already have, or what you claim I said, I didn't say.

I'm not interested in continuing to repeat myself to you while you continue your weirdly aggressive personal attacks.

Cheerful Spring2

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And you posted a link to a website, that's your evidence! A link, nothing more, you are lazy, you are dishonest and you have never debated in good faith.

How am i posting in bad faith? I asked King mob is there documentation avilable showing six million died during the holocaust period.

He posted a link.

Its a document from 1940. Location Austria. There no documented Jewish death camps in Germany and Austria. The link said 30,000 people killed not Jews.

Dohnjoe

nullzero wrote: »

Would you there?

You've engaged with him more than anyone (other than king mob) so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

My opinion? It's a public forum, I think Cheerful's irrational and illogical responses demonstrates to others reading that Cheerful's Holocaust denial stuff is baseless

Same question back to you, do you think people should engage with Holocaust deniers on a public forum? (obviously on a more on-topic thread)

Or, as mentioned, do you think a poster like Cheerful is completely beyond help and is hopelessly illogical and irrational on the subject?

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

How am i posting in bad faith?

You are posting in bad faith on this subject. I gave you patience and a proper response, you briefly accepted some points and claimed you would genuinely look into it - but you've gone straight back into your deceptive and evasion Holocaust denial again

Like it's some sort of addiction or something

nullzero

King Mob wrote: »

Either I already have, or what you claim I said, I didn't say.

I'm not interested in continuing to repeat myself to you while you continue your weirdly aggressive personal attacks.

Weirdly aggressive personal attacks?

I have asked you to quote me saying the things you have attributed to me. Not unreasonable in light of the weight of what you're accusing me of, especially given the fact that you routinely demand the exact same type of evidence from others.

So what is the problem here? Do you believe you have the right to demand one standard from others whilst applying a less stringent standard to yourself? Does feigning victim-Hood give you an out in relation to providing evidence?
Boo hoo for you pal, pony up the evidence or admit you were wrong, stop trying to weasel your way out of this.

The only thing you're not interested in is admitting fallibility.

EDIT. Why the hell are you thanking this post king mob?

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You are posting in bad faith on this subject. I gave you patience and a proper response, you briefly accepted some points and claimed you would genuinely look into it - but you've gone straight back into your deceptive and evasion Holocaust denial again

Like it's some sort of addiction or something

You have shown not one piece of evidence in the entire thread. You just posting the evidence there, believe me

You posted nothing but what you have read online. Where the hard facts, the data?

nullzero

Dohnjoe wrote: »

My opinion? It's a public forum, I think Cheerful's irrational and illogical responses demonstrates to others reading that Cheerful's Holocaust denial stuff is baseless

Same question back to you, do you think people should engage with Holocaust deniers on a public forum? (obviously on a more on-topic thread)

Or, as mentioned, do you think a poster like Cheerful is completely beyond help and is hopelessly illogical and irrational on the subject?

Are you asking me should people waste their time arguing with people who they'll never convince they are wrong about things on a forum?

Because that is essentially all you seem to do here.

It would appear to be a waste of time, but you seem to enjoy it, so it is a personal choice I suppose.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

You have shown one piece of evidence in the entire thread. You just posting the evidence there, believe me

You are dishonestly misrepresenting again.

You clearly want posters in this thread to "prove" the Holocaust to you, which you will reject. Past threads have shown this is impossible because you engage in all the usual tricks and evasion in order to deny everything and act obtuse

e.g. if I demanded that someone "prove" to me that e.g. man landed on the moon, then I can subjectively reject everything they give to me, and go around in denial circles forever. It's pretty simple to do, but also incredibly dishonest.

The solution to that is to take the time to sign up to a history forum, and ask directly there, for this particular subject.

Personally I suspect you are terrified of that because you know that you can't play your denial nonsense there. You'll be exposed as someone whose only interest in the subject is denial (only) of the number of Jews killed

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You are dishonestly misrepresenting again.

You clearly want posters in this thread to "prove" the Holocaust to you, which you will reject. Past threads have shown this is impossible because you engage in all the usual tricks and evasion in order to deny everything and act obtuse

e.g. if I demanded that someone "prove" to me that e.g. man landed on the moon, then I can subjectively reject everything they give to me, and go around in denial circles forever. It's pretty simple to do, but also incredibly dishonest.

The solution to that is to take the time to sign up to a history forum, and ask directly there, for this particular subject.

Personally I suspect you are terrified of that because you know that you can't play your denial nonsense there. You'll be exposed as someone whose only interest in the subject is denial (only) of the number of Jews killed

Specifically, six million number correct, yes.  I find it highly suspicious for example none of you can show they arrived at that number accurately. It shows your conditioned to believe things and not question.  It would seem so far that none of you has any proof the estimate accurate. If you had something this debate be over days ago.

Dohnjoe

nullzero wrote: »

Are you asking me should people waste their time (...)

Not really.

To ask in a different manner and more directly

1. Do you think that Cheerful, the poster in this forum, is irrational/illogical about the subject of the Holocaust?

2. Do you think any point by Cheerful about the Holocaust makes any sense? if so, which one(s)?

A simple yes or no would be ideal. But I am curious to see how you answer these, if at all.