Minister for Health Simon Harris and family trapped in home by protesters.

goat2

It was wrong to protest at his family home, new born baby inside, must have been frightening for them, could protest at public buildings

James Brown

tayto lover wrote: »

They need to stop this “doomed to fail” project now.
Half arsed planning and clowns behind it.

But Harris and chums don't know who's behind it or what caused it. Gas.

McMurphy

I forget the name of some political analyst on Newstalk this morning who I thought hit the nail on the head when he said that putting Simon in charge of Health was ludicrous to begin with, and said rather aptly that he didn't know what was going through anyone's head when they handed the health ministry to a 29 year old with absolutely no managerial skills or experience to oversee an organisation twice the size of Ryanair.

HappyAsLarE

Ricosruffneck wrote: »

Cough.. maybe aim a bit higher there champ.

E.Os aren't big decision makers.

E.O = Junior Management
H.E.O = mid level
AP= still mid level
PO = This is where things start to get interesting.

No, I’ll settle on EO/HEO. I was a HEO myself. The efficiency of the processes were under my control. The COs resist every change and have a hunger for OT. The AP/POs are a bit removed from the real workings.

Johnny Dogs

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I forget the name of some political analyst on Newstalk this morning who I thought hit the nail on the head when he said that putting Simon in charge of Health was ludicrous to begin with, and said rather aptly that he didn't know what was going through anyone's head when they handed the health ministry to a 29 year old with absolutely no managerial skills or experience to oversee an organisation twice the size of Ryanair.

It defies belief.

I think many of us were willing to suspend our disbelief, given his lack of political experience. He was underwhelming on PAC, and similarly as a Minister of State, but I'm sure he was a hard worker.

I don't see what he has going for him aside from the fact that he seems like a genuinely lovely guy, is politically harmless*, and not a credible pretender to the Office of the Taoiseach.

*Except when it comes to public money.

I'm sorry that this sounds a bit harsh, but the guy would have been fired. On the spot if he were running a Mcdonalds into the ground the way he's been managing the Health Budget.

whisky_galore

Arghus wrote: »

Overblown coverage. A few people protesting.

The way some people are talking you'd swear the Arab Spring was going on outside.

Franz Von Peppercorn

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

It defies belief.

I think many of us were willing to suspend our disbelief, given his lack of political experience. He was underwhelming on PAC, and similarly as a Minister of State, but I'm sure he was a hard worker.

I don't see what he has going for him aside from the fact that he seems like a genuinely lovely guy, is politically harmless*, and not a credible pretender to the Office of the Taoiseach.

*Except when it comes to public money.

I'm sorry that this sounds a bit harsh, but the guy would have been fired. On the spot if he were running a Mcdonalds into the ground the way he's been managing the Health Budget.

The role of the minister is analogous to the chairman of the board in a private corporation. It’s not really an executive role. Harris should be in trouble for lying about the over spend, there are others along the chain of command also responsible for the overspend.

tretorn

I dont think Harris lied about the overspend.

I think he actually is oblivious to what is going on. What did Tony O Brien describe him as, as a frightened little boy, O Brien was right and O Brien is also complaining about the PAC and he is right there too.

Harris and Vradkar need to get off twitter and actually concentrate on doing their jobs.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The role of the minister is analogous to the chairman of the board in a private corporation. It’s not really an executive role. Harris should be in trouble for lying about the over spend, there are others along the chain of command also responsible for the overspend.

I'm familiar with the role of the Minister, and it's considerably more involved than the role of a Chairman in Irish law, because he has a major role to play in crucial, operational decisions, not just policy. We saw this when the Chairmen of two previous hospital boards resigned after being overruled or undermined by their Ministers.

I'm sorry that I'm like a broken record here, I'm sure some people are sick of it, but I'm also sick of hearing the same feeble excuses being made. The Minister was overseeing the largest single construction project in the history of the state, he took his eye of the ball, and then misled the Dáil.

tretorn wrote: »

I dont think Harris lied about the overspend..

last year, Simon Harris told the Dáil that the Hospital was approximately on budget, when he knew it had gone over budget by hundreds of millions of euro.

I think some people may have missed this fact, in the outrage about the tiny peaceful protest at his house over the weekend.

MrMusician18

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

You haven't bothered to read the report, have you?

Have you? Handily for you I've quoted it.

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Have you? Handily for you I've quoted it.

I read it at the time and I read it again recently when the issue became prominent in the media.

Can you tell me again which site it recommended?

Franz Von Peppercorn

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm familiar with the role of the Minister, and it's considerably more involved than the role of a Chairman in Irish law, because he has a major role to play in crucial, operational decisions, not just policy. We saw this when the Chairmen of two previous hospital boards resigned after being overruled or undermined by their Ministers.

I'm sorry that I'm like a broken record here, I'm sure some people are sick of it, but I'm also sick of hearing the same feeble excuses being made. The Minister was overseeing the largest single construction project in the history of the state, he took his eye of the ball, and then misled the Dáil.

The fact that they resigned after being “undermined” indicates that they expect not to be “undermined”, so it’s the exception that proves the rule. Very few lower managers in private corporations see CEO interference as undermining.

last year, Simon Harris told the Dáil that the Hospital was approximately on budget, when he knew it had gone over budget by hundreds of millions of euro.

I think some people may have missed this fact, in the outrage about the tiny peaceful protest at his house over the weekend.

He is responsible but not solely responsible. There’s a lot of PS arse covering here.

Wheeliebin30

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

It defies belief.

I think many of us were willing to suspend our disbelief, given his lack of political experience. He was underwhelming on PAC, and similarly as a Minister of State, but I'm sure he was a hard worker.

I don't see what he has going for him aside from the fact that he seems like a genuinely lovely guy, is politically harmless*, and not a credible pretender to the Office of the Taoiseach.

*Except when it comes to public money.

I'm sorry that this sounds a bit harsh, but the guy would have been fired. On the spot if he were running a Mcdonalds into the ground the way he's been managing the Health Budget.

In fairness who has done a good job as minister of health in this country ever?

It’s a poisoned chalice who no one wants.

At least he had the balls to try.

gandalf

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I forget the name of some political analyst on Newstalk this morning who I thought hit the nail on the head when he said that putting Simon in charge of Health was ludicrous to begin with, and said rather aptly that he didn't know what was going through anyone's head when they handed the health ministry to a 29 year old with absolutely no managerial skills or experience to oversee an organisation twice the size of Ryanair.

If you look at his predecessor O'Reilly he was a doctor and was supposed to know the Health Service and he left it in a massive mess.

I think Harris got caught up with the Repeal campaign and took his eye off the NCH project. I don't believe he deliberately mislead the Dail I believe he just wasn't up to speed on the project at all.

The real issue here is the "Sir Humphreys" behind Simon in the permanent Civil Service. They're the guys we really should be directing our ire towards because there are no consequences for them if there are massive over runs on projects. It doesn't effect their jobs (they'll get 4 or 5 out of 5 on their reviews), it doesn't effect their bloated salaries and it doesn't effect their pensions. I'm more pissed that FG didn't use the austerity years to modernise and shake up the PS properly.

Harris should resign but unless he is accompanied by a number of Health Department Civil Service mandarins it will just be for optics.

Edit: I also believe that some who have the knives out for Harris are doing so because he was the Minister who brought in Abortion, so now they are trying to get at him because of this.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

He is responsible but not solely responsible. There’s a lot of PS arse covering here.

Nobody says he is solely responsible, but he wasn't bothering to be briefed by Department Officials or the Board on an enormous project about which there had been serious, expert warnings about its budget.

The fact that some officials may have been negligent in their surveillance of the costs does not in any way abrogate the apparent negligence of the Boss in not seeking information, and subsequently, misleading the Dáil when relevant information was in his possession.

This is nothing at all like the relationship of a Chairman to a Company - the Minister has the power, and the responsibility, to initiate projects, establish spending limits, and oversee the operational aspects of the implementation process.

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

In fairness who has done a good job as minister of health in this country ever?

It’s a poisoned chalice who no one wants.

At least he had the balls to try.

I'm not aware of any Minister ever turning it down. Three of our last four Taoisigh, including the incumbent, have held the post of Minister for Health, as did the current leader of the opposition.

And I happen to think that Varadkar was a competent Minister, as was Mary Harney. Indeed, the latter's name has repeatedly been mentioned in recent days, as a figure who would have been competent enough never to have allowed this situation get so far out of hand.

Boggles

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

In fairness who has done a good job as minister of health in this country ever?

There isn't many ministers in any brief that have done a good job in the past 20 years IMO.

The question shouldn't be who did a good job, but who was less sh1t at it.

Franz Von Peppercorn

gandalf wrote: »

If you look at his predecessor O'Reilly he was a doctor and was supposed to know the Health Service and he left it in a massive mess.

I think Harris got caught up with the Repeal campaign and took his eye off the NCH project. I don't believe he deliberately mislead the Dail I believe he just wasn't up to speed on the project at all.

The real issue here is the "Sir Humphreys" behind Simon in the permanent Civil Service. They're the guys we really should be directing our ire towards because there are no consequences for them if there are massive over runs on projects. It doesn't effect their jobs (they'll get 4 or 5 out of 5 on their reviews), it doesn't effect their bloated salaries and it doesn't effect their pensions. I'm more pissed that FG didn't use the austerity years to modernise and shake up the PS properly.

Harris should resign but unless he is accompanied by a number of Health Department Civil Service mandarins it will just be for optics.

The problem is that they are clearly not up to the standard of Sir Humphrey. If they were that competent then a permanent under government would be acceptable.

gandalf

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The problem is that they are clearly not up to the standard of Sir Humphrey. If they were that competent then a permanent under government would be acceptable.

LOL They’re the Diet Coke of Sir Humphreys, just one calorie, not Sir Humphrey enough.

rgodard80a

Arghus wrote: »

Overblown coverage. A few people protesting.

And if a few boardsies turned up at your house over some post they took offence too, would you not consider that to be threatening ?

No matter what you think, he's only a "temp" in a government job.
The actual expertise in medicine and large scale civil engineering project management should be represented by the civil servants underneath him.

For the system to be improved, they probably need to train these politicians for a year after they are elected into the roles they have to fill.

lbc2019

TCM wrote: »

There's no shortage of people wanting to be politicians.

most are looney tunes. Harris is a decent one.

Defaulter1831

lbc2019 wrote: »

most are looney tunes. Harris is a decent one.

He's a disaster. Can't handle budgets is a gross understatement on his abilities.

James Brown

Leo, Simon and Eoghan are not fit for purpose. I do feel sorry for Eoghan. He always looks lost with his big baby bearded face. They're like three chancers who got elected to the Students Union. They don't have a plan and are happy to play at the role.
They could by great lads, but they obviously are not good managers of the public's affairs.
The buck stops with these lads plain and simple.

rgodard80a

rgodard80a wrote: »

No matter what you think, he's only a "temp" in a government job.

he has some pension pot for a "Temp"

Guaranteed annual pension income of €85,000 + inflation + increments if he manages to remain a Minister for another few months.

"A poison chalice", they cry

lbc2019

yawn some of the wannabe political commentary here is straight out of a student SW paper...

ricero

lbc2019 wrote: »

most are looney tunes. Harris is a decent one.

Harris was the champion of the pc liberal brigade during the abortion referendum and he was loving the spotlight and finally being popular.

No everyone can see his incompetence. Swings and roundabouts.

aido79

Omackeral wrote: »

Some headline. Anti-austerity protesters have gathered outside the home of Minister for Health Simon Harris this afternoon.
According to Independent.ie the Harris, his wife and their young baby were in their Wicklow home when up to 20 protestors arrived outside this morning.

His spokesperson said in a statement that they are all currently still inside the house and that the situation is ongoing.

"Minister, his wife and three-week-old daughter remain inside while they await the arrival of the gardaí."

Gardaí have reportedly been in contact and are on their way to the minister's Wicklow home.

The protests come following Harris being under intense public scrutiny in recent weeks.

Story here.

I don't live in Ireland but just want to ask if there is still austerity measures in place. I thought the economy and budget had moved on from that.

lbc2019

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

My mistake, I meant executive officers.

ah jaysus- rung 2???

theguzman

There needs to be more and more direct action against the Government and Fianna Fail like this. They need to be held directly accountable, the Childrens hospital should be immediately scrapped. That pipsqueek of a Harris hasn't got one shred of integrity and if he was true minister he'd take on the Unions and break them, get rid of the HSE and deliver actual healthcare. Privatise it and let Private Enterprise deliver it. The Govt cannot deliver on any project because when you have state provided services or projects then you have Marxist unions ensuring it will get destroyed. The HSE exists today as a glorified social employment scheme and serves as a dumping ground for the failed careers of people who wouldn't last two minutes in the real world, it is overloaded with clerical and admin staff and the frontline staff do the work of 2 or 3 nurses.

We don't have a Government we have a minority party with no mandate, call a general election now and let the people kick Varadkar and co. to touch.

Wheeliebin30

theguzman wrote: »

There needs to be more and more direct action against the Government and Fianna Fail like this. They need to be held directly accountable, the Childrens hospital should be immediately scrapped. That pipsqueek of a Harris hasn't got one shred of integrity and if he was true minister he'd take on the Unions and break them, get rid of the HSE and deliver actual healthcare. Privatise it and let Private Enterprise deliver it. The Govt cannot deliver on any project because when you have state provided services or projects then you have Marxist unions ensuring it will get destroyed. The HSE exists today as a glorified social employment scheme and serves as a dumping ground for the failed careers of people who wouldn't last two minutes in the real world, it is overloaded with clerical and admin staff and the frontline staff do the work of 2 or 3 nurses.

We don't have a Government we have a minority party with no mandate, call a general election now and let the people kick Varadkar and co. to touch.

And who to replace them??????

theguzman

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

And who to replace them??????

A far right Dictatorship is what is needed, democracy doesn't work because it allows stupid people to be manipulated by the left-wing media. Look at China and its success because it is proof that Democracy is actually the problem. We don't have a democracy, we are an oligarchy, taxes at over 75% (add everything up and then add in Inheritance tax).

Look at Hungary and Visegrad countries for to see how their countries are booming under the far right, similarly in the US under Trump things are booming.