ESB eCars

headtheball14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121699719#Comment_121699719

Because they can, seai are advertising EV cost as one third the price of diesel using home charging rates as the comparator. ignoring that using the cheapest public charging rate , ev would be more expensive than diesel .

I emailed ecars and they said

Our pricing review will be completed soon and we hope to any relay price change, if any, to our customers in Q2 of this year.

so give it another few months and sure see

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933434#Comment_121933434

I think SEAI are being very misleading, while also not drawing attention to price gouging on some chargers.

Mad_Lad

I still think running an ICE as a backup like the BMW i3 Rex was the best idea ever, you could bring that car absolutely anywhere.....no need to hang around at chargers

HVO100 is starting to appear now, CirckeK have it in Tinryland off the M9 but what cars can use it yet ? not many perhaps but if Toyota are starting to make HVO compatible cars and if this fuel catches on there can not be an ICE ban in 2035 because we will see Synthetic fuels or Efuels appear also and these can are 100% compatible with all existing ICEs without modification + home heating and Aviation.

HVO100 and synthetics will fill the gap where EV can not meet such as fast fill ups and much increased range and it will work for those who can not charge at home, apartment owners, people who rent etc.

You can even burn Hydrogen directly in ICE with modification.

Interesting times ahead.

liamog

Mod Note: There's a thread for the SEAI fuel price comparison posters https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058342040/seai-fuel-cost-comparison-posters-at-petrol-stations#latest

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933425#Comment_121933425

Absolutely 100%, this is why I think synthetic fuels and HVO100 will really catch on, especially if Toyota are on board. + Synthetics will start to appear in the coming years.

The Rex gave me 100% independence from the Network and I could drive around on Cheap electricity for most of my driving, having 100% synthetic or Bio fuel engine would have been great but I still had the option to charge at DC chargers but it was great having the ability to avoid slow charging a cold battery.

All this is good news for many people who can't afford EV and who have no hope of charging at home/work and for those who don't want the hassles of using a public network and waiting on charging, but I would never advise someone to rely on work charging. People will get to run their cars for years longer which will be more beneficial to the environment in the long run.

headtheball14

Complaints to ecars for what they are worth are

ecars@esb.ie

complaints to the energy regulator can be made to

customercare@cru.ie

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933396#Comment_121933396

Never made sense to me why public chargers don't all accept bank cards as a minimum. It would be so much easier. Loyalty card should be an extra.

I've only got an EV recently, and 95% of my journeys are short local journeys. But in Dublin there seems to be lot of new chargers. Seems to drop off rapidly once you head out side of Dublin. But its second car. If I had one car, and/or did a frequent long journeys, or had no home charging, I wouldn't go with a EV.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933476#Comment_121933476

We use the Diesel for longer trips away from the East, once you go South East, West and North West it's a disgraceful situation with a complete lack of high power chargers.

I have a good bit of range in the id3 tour 5 and it meets most of our driving needs but the key here is most and that's the main issue, most still isn't good enough.

I have to admit if I were going for another new car I don't think it would be EV due to cost, Range, Recharge times, infrastructure etc. If I had to change tomorrow I'd be going back to 2nd hand diesel and saving a lot of money in the process now that I don't have to drive as much as I used to working from home a lot more.

Flinty997

Diesel was a disaster for our short urban journeys. If I wasn't getting EV I'd be getting petrol.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121932634#Comment_121932634

I’m very much familiar with ESB procedures ;) SLAs have most definitely come into it for ECars, in the past they didn’t have one.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933380#Comment_121933380

SLA’s will include the availability of spare parts. And are more than just pieces of paper. Financial incentives/penalties are a common feature

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933548#Comment_121933548

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933556#Comment_121933556

Just shooting the breeze here - but as we know a lot of this comes down to competition in the marketplace. In the past it was acceptable to operate on best-effort basis - that's cute when you effectively have no competition and early EV adopters have a huge tolerance for a failure or two - especially if they are getting the energy for free (as they were until 2020). As @liamog was saying, the equipment back then was almost cobbled together and standardisation of DC chargers was in it's infancy, and if I had to guess, hardware was being updated so rapidly that it was difficult to keep spares - plus they didn't probably have a quality team looking at failures or even managing the spares process. But that's all ok in the early years, but that quickly becomes unfunny when customers are paying for units. We saw that in this exact thread back in 2021. It's amusing to look back and see that eCars have made progress here. 😂

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057952790/esb-ecars

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933537#Comment_121933537

I think the tax should be much lower on Petrol than diesel to further encourage the move from diesel, but the Government/Greens are very anti car in general and in their minds the best approach is to tax the cars off the road without proper cheap alternatives. Sure Ireland is going to save the climate.....

There is a thread here on boards in the regular motor section on HVO100 and I'm delighted to read that it's Euro6 compatible with existing and some older cars. That's really good news and a proper viable alternative to Diesel.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058325413/hvo100-diesel

As always thought there are some disadvantages, in some cars there's an efficiency hit so it uses more fuel but in others I've seen reports of better mileage but it's the same price as regular diesel and this is really disappointing and probably subject to the same tax, you'd think the Government would use their brains here and understand that making batteries is probably much less environmentally friendly than using existing cars and a renewable fuel source.

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933496#Comment_121933496

The public charging situation has improved a lot in the past couple of years. ESB have a few new sites and upgraded a lot. County Donegal has a lot of multiple units sites and Bundoran has a new non esb charger. That said the number of new EVs mean peak times will still see problems. If public charging is more expensive on longer trips and you have access to Diesel then it probably makes no sense unless you are guaranteed >100kW real world charging speeds. In terms of a new purchase Diesels or EVs still may be bad investment compared to say a 3 year old haggled bargain from a non dealer.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121934079#Comment_121934079

Yeah it went from severely crap to crap. We need multiple High power chargers in every petrol station so you know wherever you go you will always have high power charging near by.

It's not good enough so that I don't have to take the outlander at times and if I were to travel on the ferry somewhere I'd definitely not bother with the hassle.

Flinty997

I think if I was doing regular trips requiring a ferry not sure why you wouldn't just get a diesel and let that be the end of it.

Why did you get an EV in the first place.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937635#Comment_121937635

You're not going to have multiple high power chargers in every petrol station while BEVs make up less than 5% of total cars on the road.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937911#Comment_121937911

And the majority charge at home.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937911#Comment_121937911

Well, that is true I suppose, very good point.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121938261#Comment_121938261

The majority of EV owners charge at home, however , a huge amount of people don't have the luxury and many others are not going to bother and how many EV owners including myself take the 2nd car on the longer trips when charging is inconvenient ? it's fine going from Carlow to Belfast but the North, North West, West, South West and South are very poorly served with proper high power chargers, granted there is a big increase in 50 Kw chargers but that's not really good enough in my opinion, there are a lot of only single 50 Kw chargers too with nothing for miles around.

Flinty997

The point is it's not simply 5% it's less than that because most charge at home.

Consider that almost 99% of ICE drivers will use petrol stations.

Why did you get an EV if it didn't suit you.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939104#Comment_121939104

If nobody charged on the road, there would be no public chargers. As it is, there are quite a number of them, some probably to meet future demand, but most to cater for current requirements.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937885#Comment_121937885

We have 2 cars, Outlander is Her car, I'm EV driving since 2015, I got EV because I liked the power vs cost to drive but it came at a cost, high depreciation, Unacceptable charge times, and much lower range and while the infrastructure has improved it's still light years away from where it should be, in my opinion. Free work charging was nice but even that can't make up for the huge hits on depreciation.

I was willing to endure it but I have to make the decision in October whether to pay the 18K balloon to own it or put any equity I may have towards something else a lot cheaper.

The price of the car was 41k and I will be lucky to see 25K in October and the other issue, from experience, most dealers won't want the car and will offer me less but will take it just because they're making more profit giving me less for the car. A lot of dealers don't like taking electric cars and selling them for fear of costly issues if offering a warranty.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939375#Comment_121939375

I meant why did you get an EV when its doesn't do the long distance journeys to Ferry's etc. I mean the infrastructure must have been woeful in 9 years ago.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939157#Comment_121939157

There's not even enough for current requirements if you move away from the east to the South, South West, West, North west and North of the Island and many towns have only 1 x DC 50 Kw charger in these areas.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939459#Comment_121939459

Ah, I wanted the latest tech like many want now and will eventually get bored of it. I Never would take EV on ferry to another country, I don't have to think about refilling a Diesel anywhere or plan any charging stops but getting into the Nissan leaf for the first time and driving it I though WOW, I got to have it. The range was what, 100-110 kms maybe 140 in summer lol, It was basically worthless after the 3 years, same with the BMW i3 and now the VW id3 will be worth more but a hell of a lot less, I'm no longer prepared to spend all that money for cheap to run cars when depreciation will kill any fuel savings and especially considering 2nd had iCE there is no sense buying a new EV

The cars are getting way to complicated adding far too much tech that's not very good to use, ergonomics are turning me off many modern cars not just EV. Make cheaper cars and let people decide what tech they want, guaranteed people would rather save money.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939655#Comment_121939655

It's improved a hell of a lot since we got ours in 2020,

Derry has got 2 BP ones that can charge 2 each in addition to the esb one (I think there's a planning application in for a big hub in Derry too, just off the foyle bridge.)

There is an instavolt in Strabane, (beside McDonald's/Asda) that can charge 4.

Ionity in Toome, 6 stalls, ionity Belfast with 11? + The maxol and other BP ones on the eastern ring, Dungannon "coming soon"

Fastned have planning in for a big one at the boulevard (bandbridge)

Laghy has 2 point, Donegal town has 4.

Although once in the wild north west still gets scarce. It's not all doom and gloom.. getting there. Living in the NW I can go from home to Dublin via Belfast (better road) to Dublin without stopping and still have above 10-15% left. I do need to charge to get home though 😂

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933434#Comment_121933434

I got the same answer to a different question 🤔🤔🤔

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933473#Comment_121933473

If you're emailing them be sure to congratulate them on their massive profits haha

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939671#Comment_121939671

An Electric Vehicle from 9 years ago is not going to reflect the experience someone can have with a more modern EV and with the current infrastructure.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939698#Comment_121939698

Yeah, BP, couldn't figure it out, the app wouldn't let me use it because it knew I was from the south!!!! I didn't know whether or not I could pay by card but anyway, the next day went to the transport museum and I absolutely loved it, very well worth a visit, it's credit to Belfast to have such a museum ! anyway, there was an AC point there and I used that and had enough to get back almost to Dublin at 7% and plugged into Ionity got 130 Kw for first time and got from 7-85% in around 30 mins and had more than enough to get home.

Of course Tesla haven't opened up their chargers for many chargers on the Island so I couldn't use those in Belfast either.

Now, travel to many parts of the Island from the East and things get much worse and sure, 50 Kw chargers have increased in big numbers, they're the new slow chargers lol but they're not so frequent that you could say , sure, lets take the EV and see how it goes, maybe it will work, maybe it won't, maybe there'll be a queue, maybe there wont, na, just take the diesel.