ESB eCars

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

to an Ionity hub, 4*350kW chargers without load sharing.

I know thats their goal, is it what is actually on the ground in Ireland?

I thought they were not 350kW enabled yet and the sites were still supply limited even if the charger was capable?

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

ecars is delivering nothing that could be compared to an Ionity hub, 4*350kW chargers without load sharing.


I take the point earlier about it not being a strictly commercial company due to other interests but still, what they are installing is much better than anyone else except Tesla.

Can you share the details of the eCars hubs, I haven't found info on what exactly they are installing.

KCross

liamog wrote: »

Can you share the details of the eCars hubs, I haven't found info on what exactly they are installing.

Back in 2018ish, this was the plan.



They seem to have started from the bottom up... replacing some AC unit, replacing some 22kW AC with 50kW DC and your recent post about a 150kW unit is the next one up again in that list.

The super hubs havent seen light of day yet but I'd say that 150kW unit is the trial run for those super hubs. They probably want to check reliability etc before they purchase a bunch of them.

liamog

By my reckoning that means they are look at rolling out 6x4 150kW, 16x 2 150kW and 34 150kW next to a 50kW charger.

So a total of 90 150kW chargers across the country.

graememk

Poor NI getting no love at all because they can't charge for charging afaik, need regulation change from stormount.

By the looks of it, there was super hubs planned around the A5 Derry to Belfast, and that road is still being built (the toome to randalstown bit is open and it's such an improvement on the old road)

Even though it's longer in distance we would go to Dublin via Belfast now rather than omagh/Monaghan/adree route.

Time wise it's not much different.

liamog

Combination of not being able to charge for the electricity, and no state subsidy to provide the install.

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

I know thats their goal, is it what is actually on the ground in Ireland?

I thought they were not 350kW enabled yet and the sites were still supply limited even if the charger was capable?

They are 350kW capable in Ireland. I've seen a model 3 charging at 500a.
500a * 800V is the theoretical max (400kW) but as the curves dont cross (peak amperage drops as peak voltage rises) the max is 350kW.
This is also on the spec doc for the units used.


I have not heard of supply limitations (beyond the 2 charger site off the M1, which is not fully active (only 2 out of 4 units added) due to current supply limitations.

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

By my reckoning that means they are look at rolling out 6x4 150kW, 16x 2 150kW and 34 150kW next to a 50kW charger.

So a total of 90 150kW chargers across the country.

That would be great, especially if hosted in bunches of 4+ per site


But I wont hold my breath.

DermoMIO

Tesco Navan Road (Dublin) has a new slow charger installed in the car park not switched on though

liamog

DermoMIO wrote: »

Tesco Navan Road (Dublin) has a new slow charger installed in the car park not switched on though

Apparently eCars have been contracted to install a number of charging posts in Tesco stores.

ELM327

Oh great, let me get my 3-6kWh while I shop. Pointless.

KCross

liamog wrote: »

Apparently eCars have been contracted to install a number of charging posts in Tesco stores.

That was announced in Dec

https://www.esb.ie/tns/press-centre/2019/2019/12/20/tesco-and-esb-announce-nationwide-roll-out-of-charge-points-for-electric-vehicles-at-52-locations-across-the-country

ELM327 wrote: »

Oh great, let me get my 3-6kWh while I shop. Pointless.

From the announcement above...

The new ESB chargers will be 22kW dual chargers providing charging capacity to two vehicles simultaneously.

If you only have a 3-6kW capable car its not alot of use. But if you have 11-22kW capable then it might be worth it. Some Tesco stores would also have other shops around it that you might spend longer than an hour there.

liamog

Hopefully they put the chargers near the front of the store, the only use for an AC charger whilst I'm doing a weekly (approx 40min) shop is to park closer to the door.

MJohnston

liamog wrote: »

Hopefully they put the chargers near the front of the store, the only use for an AC charger whilst I'm doing a weekly (approx 40min) shop is to park closer to the door.

Free in-car refrigeration if you have auxiliary A/C

mp3guy

ELM327 wrote: »

Oh great, let me get my 3-6kWh while I shop. Pointless.

Really don't get this attitude. Our big shop takes about an hour typically, so in that time I can charge up my car with about 70km of range. The shop round trip is less than 30km. So I get 30km *free* fuel to the shop and then 40km bonus. You don't have to take the free energy if you don't want to.

Irishjg

Chances are if you intend on using a charger outside a supermarket it’ll be either iced or have shopping trollies around it. One in ten visits you might be “lucky” ... maybe :P

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

That was announced in Dec

https://www.esb.ie/tns/press-centre/2019/2019/12/20/tesco-and-esb-announce-nationwide-roll-out-of-charge-points-for-electric-vehicles-at-52-locations-across-the-country





From the announcement above...

The new ESB chargers will be 22kW dual chargers providing charging capacity to two vehicles simultaneously.

If you only have a 3-6kW capable car its not alot of use. But if you have 11-22kW capable then it might be worth it. Some Tesco stores would also have other shops around it that you might spend longer than an hour there.

mp3guy wrote: »

Really don't get this attitude. Our big shop takes about an hour typically, so in that time I can charge up my car with about 70km of range. The shop round trip is less than 30km. So I get 30km *free* fuel to the shop and then 40km bonus. You don't have to take the free energy if you don't want to.

I have 11kW and it generally would take less than 30-45 mins to do the weekly shop. Perhaps 1hr at the moment with covid delays.


Barely worth the hassle of unplugging and faffing with apps etc. Certainly not when it's charged for (ecars indicated AC will be paid for very soon), and compared to my tethered home charger at ~7.5c/kwh, suddenly the hassle to save a few cents isnt worth the time

liamog

mp3guy wrote: »

Really don't get this attitude. Our big shop takes about an hour typically, so in that time I can charge up my car with about 70km of range. The shop round trip is less than 30km. So I get 30km *free* fuel to the shop and then 40km bonus. You don't have to take the free energy if you don't want to.

I can't figure out any car that can cover 70km from an hour at a 22kW charger. Zoe would manage about 100km, I3 with 11kW charger is 55km.

If I compare the savings against my night rate electricity (Energia @ 6.8c/kWh) for my car, my wife's car and my soon to be new Mini.

e-Up! (3.3kW) 22.4c
Ioniq 28 (6.6kW) 44.9c
Mini (11kW) 74.8c

At least with a Zoe (22kW) you'd save €1.50. I just don't see any practical use for AC charging at supermarkets for customers.

MJohnston

liamog wrote: »

I can't figure out any car that can cover 70km from an hour at a 22kW charger. Zoe would manage about 100km, I3 with 11kW charger is 55km.

If I compare the savings against my night rate electricity (Energia @ 6.8c/kWh) for my car, my wife's car and my soon to be new Mini.

e-Up! (3.3kW) 22.4c
Ioniq 28 (6.6kW) 44.9c
Mini (11kW) 74.8c

At least with a Zoe (22kW) you'd save €1.50. I just don't see any practical use for AC charging at supermarkets for customers.

But these sums don’t make any sense at all—you’re already going to the supermarket either way, are you not? So you either take the free charge and save a bit of money or you don’t.

mp3guy

liamog wrote: »

I can't figure out any car that can cover 70km from an hour at a 22kW charger. Zoe would manage about 100km, I3 with 11kW charger is 55km.

If I compare the savings against my night rate electricity (Energia @ 6.8c/kWh) for my car, my wife's car and my soon to be new Mini.

e-Up! (3.3kW) 22.4c
Ioniq 28 (6.6kW) 44.9c
Mini (11kW) 74.8c

At least with a Zoe (22kW) you'd save €1.50. I just don't see any practical use for AC charging at supermarkets for customers.

Kona w/ 11kW charger.

Why spend all the effort working out and worrying that it's "only" €1.50 you "save"? It's free and convenient. Ignoring the times the space is unavailable, it's a reserved parking space with free fuel for your car. That's all that matters really. Saves you charging at home that night maybe, saves you charges in the long run, saves you time! Which you can't buy with money.

liamog

mp3guy wrote: »

Kona w/ 11kW charger.

Why spend all the effort working out and worrying that it's "only" €1.50 you "save"? It's free and convenient. Ignoring the times the space is unavailable, it's a reserved parking space with free fuel for your car. That's all that matters really. Saves you charging at home that night maybe, saves you charges in the long run, saves you time! Which you can't buy with money.

It took me two minutes to work out that a car with an 11kW charger would save me 75c. If someone stood at the door and offered to pay you 75c would you park your car at the back of the car park?

unkel

liamog wrote: »

I can't figure out any car that can cover 70km from an hour at a 22kW charger. Zoe would manage about 100km

I usually get 23kW as the grid is typically 240V (240V * 3 phase * 32A = 23kW)

Car uses about 20kWh/100km on average so well over 100km range for an hours charging (Tesla Model S with dual chargers) even after losses. Had it parked at Decathlon this afternoon and it took in 59kWh, and that was with tapering towards the end as it was 95% charged by the time I came back to it

MJohnston wrote: »

But these sums don’t make any sense at all—you’re already going to the supermarket either way, are you not? So you either take the free charge and save a bit of money or you don’t.

It's the hassle and the duration. Most EVs charge at 7kW so if you're only doing weekly shop at Lidl (30 minutes), so take in just over 3kWh after losses, or a saving of just €0.24. An awful lot of hassle to get your cable in and out and to start and stop the charger. It would be quicker and easier to pick up a 1c coin from the ground, walk 20m and pick up another 1c coin, etc. until you have 24 one cent coins :pac: Would you do that too?

liamog

unkel wrote: »

I usually get 23kW as the grid is typically 240V (240V * 3 phase * 32A = 23kW)

Car uses about 20kWh/100km on average so well over 100km range for an hours charging (Tesla Model S with dual chargers) even after losses. Had it parked at Decathlon this afternoon and it took in 59kWh, and that was with tapering towards the end as it was 95% charged by the time I came back to it

I can see the benefit of AC charging at the likes of Ikea, shopping centres like Dundrum etc, basically places you are going to spend a couple of hours or more. Tesco hosting an AC charger doesn't really help anybody at all, it's just greenwashing so they can be seen to have done something.

MJohnston

unkel wrote: »

It's the hassle and the duration. Most EVs charge at 7kW so if you're only doing weekly shop at Lidl (30 minutes), so take in just over 3kWh after losses, or a saving of just €0.24. An awful lot of hassle to get your cable in and out and to start and stop the charger. It would be quicker and easier to pick up a 1c coin from the ground, walk 20m and pick up another 1c coin, etc. until you have 24 one cent coins :pac: Would you do that too?

I have an i3 and I usually spend about 45 minutes doing a weekly shop, so yeah I definitely would do it. In fact I do it all the time at Tesco Liffey Valley. Pre-Covid the weekly shop would have been longer too as we’d usually grab some coffee at Costa before shopping.

Of course I don’t find getting the cable out all of that much of a hassle (maybe it’s just the i3’s front storage for this that makes it easier?). And I tend to park fairly far away from entrances anyway because I prefer it.

Can’t imagine I’m anywhere near alone in this tbh.

DrPhilG

How many of you "I wouldn't be arsed with faffing around plugging in" are the same people who tell petrol heads that refueling is a doddle because it only takes me seconds to plug in at night?

unkel

Big difference having to get your cable out, sticking it back in and messing with apps / fobs compared to plugging in your home tethered charger. I can do the latter in under 5s. I bet it takes a solid 2 minutes to do the former. For a 24c saving (in case of a 30 minute shop loading just 3kWh) that would value your time at just €7 per hour, or well under the minimum wage.

MJohnston wrote: »

I have an i3 and I usually spend about 45 minutes doing a weekly shop, so yeah I definitely would do it. In fact I do it all the time at Tesco Liffey Valley. Pre-Covid the weekly shop would have been longer too as we’d usually grab some coffee at Costa before shopping.

Unless you have the oldest i3, your car can charge at 11kW. And if you take your time having a coffee and then do your leasurely weekly shop, you're probably talking the guts of 2 hours, so 22kWh charged, that starts making sense alright

liamog

DrPhilG wrote: »

How many of you "I wouldn't be arsed with faffing around plugging in" are the same people who tell petrol heads that refueling is a doddle because it only takes me seconds to plug in at night?

I don't tend to do my grocery shopping at a distance just over 50% of my available range, I don't need to charge at a supermarket. So that leaves me with two reasons to plug in.

1. Save money on electricity
2. Better parking space

I don't mind the minute or so plugging in/out at home, it's a minutes work each time for an annual saving of about €1,500 a year (vs Petrol), instead of the same minute work each time at Tesco where it would be an annual saving of €23.30

Since I don't do the shopping it bothers me not haha but when I go on a long drive or staying away for a week or weekend, 11 Kw AC is a Godsend provided there's a charge point near by. Plug in and I either got enough charge for next destination or it saves me having to sit twiddling my thumbs for 30 mins at a fast charger or 40-45 mins if the battery is cold.

Rex is a Godsend too! it can allow the battery to warm up so it's warm enough for a proper fast charge at the next stop:D

McGiver

MJohnston wrote:

But these sums don’t make any sense at all—you’re already going to the supermarket either way, are you not? So you either take the free charge and save a bit of money or you don’t.

Exactly. It's convenience. Like, I don't know... Free coffee? Cost me few cents at home. So I just "save" few cents by getting the free coffee and why should I even move my bottom to get that free coffee right? lol

Seriously lads, laziness and first world problems. I don't get why someone can't be arsed to get off their bottom and stick the plug to the bloody socket, not a big deal if I'm already going through the hassle of going to the shop. I usually avoid going there at all, but if I do and get a free juice I would get it.

AndyBoBandy

If I'm out, and will park for about 1+ hour, and reasonably far from home, and if I was less than about 60% SOC, I will take the charge on offer.
Not for the savings, but for the added km's that you'll probably never need, but will be nice and reassuring to have in the event of any unexpected deviation to your plans.

These days, as I'm the designated shopper, I'd only ever spend 10 minutes max in a Tesco, but if/when things get back to normal, and is she is with me and we go to one of those mega Tesco's, then yeah, I'll plug in as we could easily be there over an hour (me 5-10 minutes getting the food we need, her browsing kids clothes for an hour). The last thing I'd want is to be in there for an hour thinking, feck, I should have plugged in. I should have known it would take this long....