ESB eCars

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328506#Comment_118328506

As it stands Cork has double the number of Dublin HPCs so triple would have been to much to bear 😊

Black_Knight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328959#Comment_118328959

Had a look on ESBs ecars network updates page (https://www.esb.ie/ecars/our-network/network-upgrades) and they say Frankfield will be a hub. And ecars define all their hubs as having 2 units. I had a scout around the forecourt and the hotel but couldn't see anything obvious where works might be ongoing.

There are three tiers of high power charging hubs – tier one consisting of four high power chargers allowing up to eight electric vehicles at any one time; tier two consisting of two high power chargers allowing up to four electric vehicles at any one time; and tier three consisting of one high power charger and one fast charger allowing up to three electric vehicles charge at any one time.

So either they're not finished (though that 1 unit looks ready to go, and spaces all painted up), or they're putting a 2nd unit elsewhere on site, or it won't be a hub.

Black_Knight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328669#Comment_118328669

They have that data. I have that data, and if I have that data, they damn sure do too. Units report states of offline, available, faulted, unavailable, charging, occupied (plugged in but not charging) and a few others like initialising charge. I judge reliability as when the unit is not "unavailable", "Faulted", or "offline", because in those states you very likely cannot initiate a charging session. Search Randles Garage in Killarney here - https://ecars-stats.com Offline more or less the whole week.

sh81722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328165#Comment_118328165

13 locations is better than I expected to be honest. It's great that we finally have some doubled up locations and that there are actually new chargers happening unlike between 2016 and 2019 when it felt like that the network was going to die of neglect with combination of freeloading and lack of investment. In 2021 especially the network has finally seen plenty of upgrades.

innrain

So I got to test the HPC in Blanch. Wasn't easy to prepare to be at low SoC as my fallback charger The Helix easygo trows me errors since last week. Anyway I used the pre-conditioning which Tesla opened to other chargers but I used Lucan on the navigation as Blanch is not o their map yet. When I got there the HPC was used by an Outlander and a Peugeot. The AC while occupied was not in use, and it looked that it was there from last night. So no spot even for the mere 50kW. Fortunately while trying to figure out what to do both the Outlander and Peugeot left so less than a minute of a stop I figure the battery still warm. Started with 8% SoC and the power went straight to 133kW

Then it increased up to 141kW where it stayed up to 36% SoC

And that took 10 minutes. Unlike my previous test with Ionity this time I said I will stay 20 mins but I logged when it reached 100kW which was at 52% SoC and after 16 minutes (32kWh added) averaging 120kW.

I stopped after 20 minutes. The SoC was at 60% and charging at 83kW. Total energy added 38kWh, average charging speed 114kW

What I noticed by looking at various times on the app Blanch has a great turnaround. The HPC helps. I noticed it took a bit longer to start but it was consistent afterwards, as these Delta units are know to be. Too bad that the AC there. They could have added an AC charger on the other side of the pedestrian crossing.

ELM327

The placing of an AC there is one of the silliest things "Anna" has done. Right up there with having a "hub" in a shopping center in the first place.

liamog

What I noticed by looking at various times on the app Blanch has a great turnaround. The HPC helps. I noticed it took a bit longer to start but it was consistent afterwards, as these Delta units are know to be. Too bad that the AC there. They could have added an AC charger on the other side of the pedestrian crossing.

Lot's of demand for DC charging in the area, pity the AC socket on the 50kW screws things up a little.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330966#Comment_118330966

4*50kW DC chargers and a separate AC location with 10*7kW AC would be a better use. The current situation is a poor use of resources and not enough spaces allocated

UID0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118331180#Comment_118331180

Yes, DC and AC chargers should not be sharing the same parking area. They should be deployed to suit different dwell times. AC should have regular parking spaces, and should really only be used by people intending to spend in excess of an hour. DC should have larger spaces so cars van park in multiple orientations to cope with different charge port locations and should be used by people staying for shorter durations. The only difference I would say is that the AC chargers should be three phase. They can be set up to allow each individual port to supply 22kW, but the overall MIC for the AC charger bank to be at around 11kW per charger and load balance to ensure the total draw doesn't exceed the MIC.

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118331598#Comment_118331598

I don't really understand what are you suggesting.

UID0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118331698#Comment_118331698

What I'm saying is that I'm agreeing with ELM327 that the DC and AC chargers should not be at the same part of the Blanchardstown SC complex. I am saying that the DC chargers should be set up so that they aren't used by people who are going to spend several hours there, but should be set up with parking spaces that are big enough for cars to park in any orientation so that they can use the charger without impeding access to any of the other chargers.

I am also saying that the AC chargers should be in a different area, but that instead of being 7kW as ELM suggested, that they should be capable of delivering 22kW if someone plugged in a vehicle capable of taking it. As there is a small number of cars capable of taking 22kW, the site doesn't need to be able to provide 22kW to each port all the time. I was suggesting that if the maximum power provided by the site is 11kW x number of ports, then the vast majority of the time each vehicle that plugs in will be able to pull their maximum power. It reduces the maximum load that is allowed to be drawn from the grid, thereby reducing the cost of providing the transformer and other infrastructure relative to providing 22kW for each port, but without reducing the actual usability of the site.

I hope I'm more clear this time.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118331752#Comment_118331752

Yes I agree with that. Unfortunately I doubt that Anna understands what you are saying let alone have the ability to do it!

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118331752#Comment_118331752

I'm going to make an educated guess that function which you describe will happen in time, but most likely in destination locations such as hotels. Many hotels won't be able to push beyond 22kW (~95A) due to local infrastructure issues and cost but will be under customer pressure to add charging spots, so I'm guessing that a load sharing option will come along where that 22kW will be shared across all of the chargers and perhaps even offering a first-come first-served option on a higher charging rate (selectable from the charging point). EasyGo are you listening? :)

slave1

I think backstepping on 22kW AC is a bad move, they are a great benefit to the 11/16/22kw EVs and we should be encouraging EV makers to make more use of them, thankfully the upcoming Ariya has 22kW capabilities.

In Winter a lot of cold EVs are better off on 22kW AC if they can fully support it

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118331866#Comment_118331866

Tesla Destination chargers will already load balance between themselves, and Tesla give them to hotels for free (though the Gen 2 ones only cost €430 these days anyway).

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118331752#Comment_118331752

I got it now. The last bit it was confusing me. So load management on AC charging. It will happen. So far manufacturers were all muscle up to get market share. Now they will start looking at refinement. Here we have just one AC which is one too many.

BTW Blanch has a number of AC (4?) in front of the Red entrance. So leaving the car overnight at this "hub" should be costly. I would limit the AC socket here to 3 phase. In fact I would do that to all triple heads so making sure the Zoes are actually cater for. I don't mind the location it is quite accessible from M50 especially if you read the signs and use the other exit.

liamog

I'd limit the AC socket in desirable locations to call centre activation only in the event the DC chargers were down and purely act as a failover.

4*50kW DC chargers and a separate AC location with 10*7kW AC would be a better use. The current situation is a poor use of resources and not enough spaces allocated

Not too far off what they've delivered, 2 75kW DC spaces, and 1 50kW DC space with a spot for PHEVs to go to the cinema 👿.

I don't see much advantage to rolling out 4 50kW DC chargers instead of rolling out 2 dual sided 150kW ones, and it still allows those of us who need to use Blanch to get a fast charge in the time to grab a Starbucks or a donut.

Totally agree with you on the need for spaces to match the number of charge points, and I also think eCars should not be in the business of providing AC charging to shopping centres unless it's paid for by the shopping centre itself and delivered somewhere else on site.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118331945#Comment_118331945

Ah, I didn't know that. Makes sense.

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328407#Comment_118328407

@Black_Knight thanks, so 10% of locations have 2 FCPs.

How many of those 115 locations have 3 FCPs.... Oh hang on 😎

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118329922#Comment_118329922

Plenty is a relative word.

Number of FCPs in last 3 years increased roughly from 85 to 125 or so. That's 40% increase (1.4 fold).

However, EV numbers grew at least 200% in the same period.

EV:FCP ratio increased rapidly because 40% increase in FCPs is way too low to keep up.

You get the point...

Some comparison, increases in FCPs in last 3 years in various countries:

Bulgaria - 3.5 fold

Croatia - 11 fold (20 to 250 FCPs)

Lithuania - 3.7 fold

Finland - 3.4 fold

Netherlands - 2 fold

Czechia - 6.3 fold (100 to 630 FCPs)

Austria - 2.5 fold (250 to 1000 FCPs)

Etc etc.

You get the gist again.

ESB and Irish gov are totally unprepared for what's happening and what's coming. And that's before I mention the grid which isn't in a good shape at all to support numbers seen in similar sized countries

slave1

and with the raft of newer EVs that can go well past 50kW charging, the 50kW charger should now be looked on as legacy only and no longer a fresh install, 150kW triples (with removal of AC) should be the minimum standard in 2022

sh81722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118335463#Comment_118335463

The speed of getting the chargers to connected to the actual grid appears to be an issue, perhaps. Wonder if it is the pricing, availability of the suitable power lines or just lack of contractors that can make the connections? The cost of a 1-2 MW connection appears to be very high but don't have the foggiest on how this compares to other markets.

Just wondering what is the bigger picture on why the other countries are overtaking us left right and centre. One thing working against Ireland is lack of through traffic which in some other countries surely help with finances of charging networks.

Black_Knight

ESB blaming a global shortage of chargers now. Probably legit, but other countries are still surging ahead installing FCP.

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118336954#Comment_118336954

Those other countries probably bought up all the stock in advance of expansion. ESB were probably ordering one at a time when they needed them!!

innrain

DE has a lot of subsidies for network charges. Probably others too. They also mandated service stations to install chargers.

Been around Blanch today again. All 3 spots occupied only AC charging. Lots of EV circling, probably because the app it says both chargers are free. I can only imagine the frustration.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118338259#Comment_118338259

And if they are plugged in to DC but not charging, there's no overstay fee!

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118338259#Comment_118338259

What feckin hope do we have when they're doing things as stupid as this? They sit down and talk to the IEVOA don't they? So how is this level of dumb possible?

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118338998#Comment_118338998

No I understand why this location is bad. I didn't really consider shopping cause I have it removed from my DNA. The longest shopping spree for me is 45 mins. I see on plug share someone giving out about a CCS PHEV staying for 75 minutes. Probably better overstay would sort this out.

Fingleberries

Overstay like Tesla would be better - once you're stopped charging (80% or 100% or whatever you set) you've a couple of mins to get off the stall or it starts racking up the cost and doesn't stop till you leave.

Some people might just factor the €4.60 into their charging price because for larger batteries 45 mins at a 50kw or 22kw charger might not be enough (especially if they have no home charger).

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118338259#Comment_118338259

There is only one AC socket there, so not entirely sure how that's possible.