Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

Sam Russell

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah this is the stuff that makes my blood boil. Somebody from the other side of Europe sticking their nose in. They should keep their mouths shut and stay out of it. It's not like any of their family or friends are going to lose jobs or lose loved ones in a bitter conflict that is likely to reignite.
Like as much as I'm happy with us in Europe the only other English speaking country is leaving.
I'm very worried at how bad things will get here if there is a hard Brexit.

I really, really don't want to hear from leaders of other countries unless they are trying to help sort out this mess.

Well, killing the notion of a change in the EU position could be persuading the UK politicians that there will be no last minute capitulation by the EU 27.

No means NO. Negotiations are over means negotiations are over. Take it or leave it, UK - your choice.

Daemonic

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah this is the stuff that makes my blood boil. Somebody from the other side of Europe sticking their nose in. They should keep their mouths shut and stay out of it. It's not like any of their family or friends are going to lose jobs or lose loved ones in a bitter conflict that is likely to reignite.
Like as much as I'm happy with us in Europe the only other English speaking country is leaving.
I'm very worried at how bad things will get here if there is a hard Brexit.

I really, really don't want to hear from leaders of other countries unless they are trying to help sort out this mess.

They are by reaffirming the EU position and making the point to HMG that no amount of meetings with individual leaders will change the WA so they need to quit their ridiculous bickering and govern.

eagle eye

Sam Russell wrote:

No means NO. Negotiations are over means negotiations are over. Take it or leave it, UK - your choice.

Well I don't think any rational person in the ROI wants to hear statements like that. I want them at the table trying to get something sorted. We are in an awful situation if it's a hard Brexit.

Daemonic

And the WA is the way to avoid a hard Brexit. It's up to TM and her government to get that message across to the HOC.

Sam Russell

eagle eye wrote: »

Well I don't think any rational person in the ROI wants to hear statements like that. I want them at the table trying to get something sorted. We are in an awful situation if it's a hard Brexit.

OK, so they sit down (as they have) and ask the UK what is it exactly that you want, and that you can guaranty will get the approval of the HoC and any other constitutional requirement to be accepted? Uk reply is, and has been, 'well, what do you suggest?'

There is no negotiating with that kind of position. Being around the table offers nothing if the other side has no authority.

listermint

eagle eye wrote: »

Well I don't think any rational person in the ROI wants to hear statements like that. I want them at the table trying to get something sorted. We are in an awful situation if it's a hard Brexit.

Idiotic point of view tbh.

The problem is the UKs to solve not ours. The EU and Ireland have given all they can give. It's ludicrous to pretend they haven't or else your purposefully manipulating the facts.

Calina

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah this is the stuff that makes my blood boil. Somebody from the other side of Europe sticking their nose in. They should keep their mouths shut and stay out of it. It's not like any of their family or friends are going to lose jobs or lose loved ones in a bitter conflict that is likely to reignite.
Like as much as I'm happy with us in Europe the only other English speaking country is leaving.
I'm very worried at how bad things will get here if there is a hard Brexit.

I really, really don't want to hear from leaders of other countries unless they are trying to help sort out this mess.

Malta is also English speaking.

Things will be worse in the UK if there is a hard Brexit.

Large numbers of Estonians migrated to the UK and Ireland.

Your post demonstrates some serious ignorance.

eagle eye

listermint wrote:

Idiotic point of view tbh.

Thanks for insulting me.

listermint wrote:

The problem is the UKs to solve not ours. The EU and Ireland have given all they can give. It's ludicrous to pretend they haven't or else your purposefully manipulating the facts.

Donyou not realise how bad things are going to get here with a hard Brexit?
We should be pushing both sides to get a deal done. From what I've seen we are sticking totally on the side of the EU and not trying very hard to get the UK to accept a deal.
When was the last meeting or even offer of a meeting with TM from our Taoiseach? Was it in December? They should be meeting monthly at a minimum.

Calina

eagle eye wrote: »

Thanks for insulting me.


Donyou not realise how bad things are going to get here with a hard Brexit?
We should be pushing both sides to get a deal done. From what I've seen we are sticking totally on the side of the EU and not trying very hard to get the UK to accept a deal.
When was the last meeting or even offer of a meeting with TM from our Taoiseach? Was it in December? They should be meeting monthly at a minimum.

The issue is that the UK is unable to accept any deal at all. There is nothing we can push them to accept.

Varadkar and May had dinner last week iirc. It was discussed here.

You don't know what is happening so stop giving orders about should be happening.

Tell me how

eagle eye wrote: »

Thanks for insulting me.


Donyou not realise how bad things are going to get here with a hard Brexit?
We should be pushing both sides to get a deal done. From what I've seen we are sticking totally on the side of the EU and not trying very hard to get the UK to accept a deal.
When was the last meeting or even offer of a meeting with TM from our Taoiseach? Was it in December? They should be meeting monthly at a minimum.

We are in a relationship with the EU. That is what being a member means.

The union would have indeed collapsed if member states looked to see how they could negotiate outside of the EU structure solely in their own interests.

Also, the Taoiseach and TM met 2 weeks ago. Happy?

RobMc59

eagle eye wrote: »

Thanks for insulting me.


Donyou not realise how bad things are going to get here with a hard Brexit?
We should be pushing both sides to get a deal done. From what I've seen we are sticking totally on the side of the EU and not trying very hard to get the UK to accept a deal.
When was the last meeting or even offer of a meeting with TM from our Taoiseach? Was it in December? They should be meeting monthly at a minimum.

Unfortunately if you see things from a different perspective it can be unpopular and as you have pointed out,can result in ridicule and insults-its par for the course I'm afraid.

An Ciarraioch

RobMc59 wrote: »

Unfortunately if you see things from a different perspective it can be unpopular and as you have pointed out,can result in ridicule and insults-its par for the course I'm afraid.

As well as May meeting Varadkar, Coveney has had regular talks with May's deputy, David Lidington, so to say the two governments haven't been talking simply isn't true.

listermint

eagle eye wrote: »

Thanks for insulting me.


Donyou not realise how bad things are going to get here with a hard Brexit?
We should be pushing both sides to get a deal done. From what I've seen we are sticking totally on the side of the EU and not trying very hard to get the UK to accept a deal.
When was the last meeting or even offer of a meeting with TM from our Taoiseach? Was it in December? They should be meeting monthly at a minimum.

I'm afraid not Eagle. You are well aware of the UK position. You have a certain posting style which seems to think Ireland or the EU are to blame for this whole mess. You don't seem to agree that they've already made numerous compromises including extending the cu to the whole UK.

It's daft at this stage and the faux outrage isn't believable.

Next you'll be blaming coveney and vradkar for the whole thing.

How about going on to English sights and asking their PM to move her ridiculous red lines .... But nooo it's Ireland and the EU that are being intransigent.

listermint

RobMc59 wrote: »

Unfortunately if you see things from a different perspective it can be unpopular and as you have pointed out,can result in ridicule and insults-its par for the course I'm afraid.

It's not perspective , it's pushing a narrative that goes against all known facts.

Ridicule has to be expected when false narratives are continually pursued.

CelticRambler

Deleted User wrote: »

Another question, I work in theatre, and can't get an answer anywhere. If I tour up to the North post hard exit, will we have to fill in carnets, like you do for Switzerland?

To be decided. I imagine it'd be one of the things that'd be fairly low down the list of concerns for either government, and would probably be swept under the CTA carpet.

It's a little-reported detail in the whole Brexit saga, though, and while you'll be OK (I'm assuming from your post that you're based in the Republic) our creative Northern cousins - and their British peers - will have an almighty headache. For them, yes: they will have to go back to the days of the carnet and all the cost and hassle that involves. That's why the European Youth Orchestra has already moved out of England. I'm waiting to see what effect it'll have on our festivals here in France, as there would be a fairly large British presence most years. I can't see the budget for most of them stretching to include the cost of a carnet application.

Roanmore

eagle eye wrote: »

Thanks for insulting me.


Donyou not realise how bad things are going to get here with a hard Brexit?
We should be pushing both sides to get a deal done. From what I've seen we are sticking totally on the side of the EU and not trying very hard to get the UK to accept a deal.
When was the last meeting or even offer of a meeting with TM from our Taoiseach? Was it in December? They should be meeting monthly at a minimum.

I stopped taking anything you say seriously since you insinuated that Varadkar was more interested in Donald Tusk’s crotch than his hand at their meeting in Dublin. How you were let post in this thread again after that I’ll never know.

Igotadose

listermint wrote: »

It's not perspective , it's pushing a narrative that goes against all known facts.

Ridicule has to be expected when false narratives are continually pursued.

This. Brexit (and Trump) rely on 'everyone's entitled to their opinion' as a reason to refute facts. Facts are facts. There are no alternative facts, and the only fake news comes from the liars themselves (Brexiteers, Trump)

An Ciarraioch

Quentin Letts fairly eviscerated in the replies:

http://twitter.com/thequentinletts/status/1097073556100444160

Fr Tod Umptious

eagle eye wrote: »

Well I don't think any rational person in the ROI wants to hear statements like that. I want them at the table trying to get something sorted. We are in an awful situation if it's a hard Brexit.

I think there is a certain amount of brinkmanship going on from Ireland.

A hard Brexit is very bad but the thinking is that we have the backing off the EU in the case of a hard Brexit whereas the UK is isolated with a hard Brexit.

A hard Brexit will hurt the UK badly and they are likely to come looking for a deal after a period of time with a far better idea of what Brexit actually means.

Ireland and the EU think they can see it out until the UK realize the extent of the problem.

But as others have said why keep negotiating with a entity that is totally and utterly devided on what they want anyway.

ThePanjandrum

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Quentin Letts fairly eviscerated in the replies:

http://twitter.com/thequentinletts/status/1097073556100444160

But has anyone said that a hard border which would have prevented him from doing this existed before Schengen?

An Ciarraioch

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

But has anyone said that a hard border which would have prevented him from doing this existed before Schengen?

The more important point is that it has always been a hard border for goods, just not for people at present.

Seth Brundle

eagle eye wrote: »

Donyou not realise how bad things are going to get here with a hard Brexit?
We should be pushing both sides to get a deal done. From what I've seen we are sticking totally on the side of the EU and not trying very hard to get the UK to accept a deal.
When was the last meeting or even offer of a meeting with TM from our Taoiseach? Was it in December? They should be meeting monthly at a minimum.

Irish or EU representatives cannot make the UK decide on what it wants. The UK is stuck in a limbo of stupidity and lies and nobody appears to be able to break out of it.
As for the hard border, you already know it but this is the end result of the UK deciding to take the default exitnroute rather that the more sensible WA which his on offer.
If there was no hard border on the island of Ireland it woukd exist between Ireland and the EU resulting in a lot more job losses. Is that what you want because it appears to be what you're looking for?

ThePanjandrum

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I think there is a certain amount of brinkmanship going on from Ireland.

A hard Brexit is very bad but the thinking is that we have the backing off the EU in the case of a hard Brexit whereas the UK is isolated with a hard Brexit.

A hard Brexit will hurt the UK badly and they are likely to come looking for a deal after a period of time with a far better idea of what Brexit actually means.

Ireland and the EU think they can see it out until the UK realize the extent of the problem.

But as others have said why keep negotiating with a entity that is totally and utterly devided on what they want anyway.

That ignores the reports that in the event of no deal the EU will leave Ireland to sort it out and have a de facto customs border at the European mainland.

Opinion in the UK seems to be moving to the no deal option that some of us have said for some time we will accept.

Seth Brundle

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Opinion in the UK seems to be moving to the no deal option that some of us have said for some time we will accept.

So tell us, what are the positives from that decision?

listermint

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

That ignores the reports that in the event of no deal the EU will leave Ireland to sort it out and have a de facto customs border at the European mainland.

Opinion in the UK seems to be moving to the no deal option that some of us have said for some time we will accept.

De facto what ? ...

Baggly

ThePanjandrum wrote:

That ignores the reports that in the event of no deal the EU will leave Ireland to sort it out and have a de facto customs border at the European mainland.

Links?

The EU can't ostracise one of their memberstates like that without the whole thing falling apart.

I think it's people who don't understand the EU who are purporting they will.

ThePanjandrum

BTW, have you also seen that EU Fund and Asset Managers are threatening to move to the UK?

Strazdas

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Quentin Letts fairly eviscerated in the replies:

http://twitter.com/thequentinletts/status/1097073556100444160

And rightly so. Is the clown planning on skiing across the Irish border in five year's time?

Baggly

ThePanjandrum wrote:

BTW, have you also seen that EU Fund and Asset Managers are threatening to move to the UK?

Links???

Seth Brundle

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

BTW, have you also seen that EU Fund and Asset Managers are threatening to move to the UK?

No. Can you provide a link please?