When did Gemma O Doherty go batshyt crazy?

Hotblack Desiato

This won't stop going through my head now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bcnO3VQ_fc

nozzferrahhtoo

Auntie Semite wrote: »

I have to say I am loathe to continue this discussion as I feel if I express my genuine opinions on the subject I will get banned and I only joined the site yesterday.

The site is a lot more permissive than people who get banned for genuine reasons would like to pretend. For example you have joined with a user name that is a clear play on labeling yourself with Antisemitism. Yet no one has rushed to ban you yet have they? Unless you are a re-reg and unless you conduct yourself very poorly I doubt you will get banned. So do not hide behind that as a dodge out of the conversation.

Auntie Semite

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

The site is a lot more permissive than people who get banned for genuine reasons would like to pretend. For example you have joined with a user name that is a clear play on labeling yourself with Antisemitism. Yet no one has rushed to ban you yet have they? Unless you are a re-reg and unless you conduct yourself very poorly I doubt you will get banned. So do not hide behind that as a dodge out of the conversation.

My username was a joke which I now regret. I didn't realise you couldn't change it.
Not a re reg just a long time lurker this is my first time to sign up.

Ipso

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

The site is a lot more permissive than people who get banned for genuine reasons would like to pretend. For example you have joined with a user name that is a clear play on labeling yourself with Antisemitism. Yet no one has rushed to ban you yet have they? Unless you are a re-reg and unless you conduct yourself very poorly I doubt you will get banned. So do not hide behind that as a dodge out of the conversation.

But the victim complex, they’re being oppressed.

baby and crumble

Auntie Semite wrote: »

Some would say the suicide rate is so high because transitioning ultimately doesn't work.
Even the experience of Jazz Jenning whos newly formed Vagina 'fell apart' soon after surgery shows that medical science is not quite ready for this yet.

I have to say I am loathe to continue this discussion as I feel if I express my genuine opinions on the subject I will get banned and I only joined the site yesterday.

Ok well let's just chill out on the hysterics, it didn't 'fall apart' she had a surgery complication like an awful lot of surgical procedures.

I'm fine to leave this subject, but it does say a lot that you're not willing to discuss the issue of transitioning - which is one of Gemma core issues at the moment - without the ability to do so in a calm and civilized manner.

nozzferrahhtoo

Auntie Semite wrote: »

My username was a joke which I now regret. I didn't realise you couldn't change it. Not a re reg just a long time lurker this is my first time to sign up.

Then you are around long enough to know that people do not tend generally to get banned for their beliefs, but how they conduct themselves while expressing those beliefs. Of course THEY never see it that way, and play the "oppression and censorship" card when it happens.

But generally if people express even the most heinous position but do it thoughtfully and with some level of decorum, they do not even get infracted let alone banned.

Read the rules you signed up to when you joined. If you comply with them I would be surprised to see you banned. You will have to forgive us therefore if your withdrawal from the conversation under that narrative looks to us like a cop out.

Auntie Semite

baby and crumble wrote: »

Ok well let's just chill out on the hysterics, it didn't 'fall apart' she had a surgery complication like an awful lot of surgical procedures.

I'm fine to leave this subject, but it does say a lot that you're not willing to discuss the issue of transitioning - which is one of Gemma core issues at the moment - without the ability to do so in a calm and civilized manner.

I'm just going by what she herself said on Twitter "Even though my vagina falling apart was the hardest thing I ever"

I believe I was being calm and civilized I don't set out to deliberately insult or aggravate people.

ohnonotgmail

Auntie Semite wrote: »

I'm just going by what she herself said on Twitter "Even though my vagina falling apart was the hardest thing I ever"

I believe I was being calm and civilized I don't set out to deliberately insult or aggravate people.

but surely you knew she wasn't speaking literally?

Grayson

These are US stats but still relevant

• LGB youth seriously contemplate suicide at almost three times the rate of heterosexual youth.
  
• LGB youth are almost five times as likely to have attempted suicide compared to heterosexual youth
  
• In a national study, 40% of transgender adults reported having made a suicide attempt. 92% of these individuals reported having attempted suicide before the age of 25
  
• LGB youth who come from highly rejecting families are 8.4 times as likely to have attempted suicide as LGB peers who reported no or low levels of family rejection.
  
• 1 out of 6 students nationwide (grades 9–12) seriously considered suicide in the past year.
  
• Each episode of LGBT victimization, such as physical or verbal harassment or abuse, increases the likelihood of self-harming behavior by 2.5 times on average

From here.

Children should not be subjected to state sponsored discrimination against gay teens. Going to a school where they are told that who they are is unnatural is wrong. It actually endangers them.

baby and crumble

Auntie Semite wrote: »

I'm just going by what she herself said on Twitter "Even though my vagina falling apart was the hardest thing I ever"

Well she's hardly going to go into details about surgery complications on her social media with character limits. Also, she's a reality TV star, completely aside from her transition she's obviously going to be trying to get exposure, so a shocking statement like that will get it more than a discreet 'I had some surgical complications but it's all fine now' will. How many other thousands and thousands of people have had completely smooth (as smooth as surgery can ever be) experiences with medically transitioning?

Auntie Semite wrote: »

I believe I was being calm and civilized I don't set out to deliberately insult or aggravate people.

To be fair you were being civilized in your posts (even if some would find it pretty offensive that you're reducing gender and transitioning to genital 'mutilation'). However people don't get banned here for having problematic or anti-trans views. Not even close. So I had to make the assumption that you'd be vitriolic with it, in order to get banned. Especially banned from AH, which has a far looser vibe than other forums.

Auntie Semite

baby and crumble wrote: »

Well she's hardly going to go into details about surgery complications on her social media with character limits. Also, she's a reality TV star, completely aside from her transition she's obviously going to be trying to get exposure, so a shocking statement like that will get it more than a discreet 'I had some surgical complications but it's all fine now' will. How many other thousands and thousands of people have had completely smooth (as smooth as surgery can ever be) experiences with medically transitioning?



To be fair you were being civilized in your posts (even if some would find it pretty offensive that you're reducing gender and transitioning to genital 'mutilation'). However people don't get banned here for having problematic or anti-trans views. Not even close. So I had to make the assumption that you'd be vitriolic with it, in order to get banned. Especially banned from AH, which has a far looser vibe than other forums.

OK fair enough.

I can say then that if I hear my children are being taught or encouraged at school to explore gender identities then I will immediately remove them from school, teach then that I believe what they are being taught is morally wrong and I will search for alternative schooling.
I realise this might greatly offend people but that's my position.

Auntie Semite

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

but surely you knew she wasn't speaking literally?

The point is that the procedure unfortunately did not go well. Even with the best of medical care.
When I was young (in my late 30s now) the prevailing wisdom and what we were taught was to accept who you are and the body you were born with.

baby and crumble

Auntie Semite wrote: »

OK fair enough.

I can say then that if I hear my children are being taught or encouraged at school to explore gender identities then I will immediately remove them from school, teach then that I believe what they are being taught is morally wrong and I will search for alternative schooling.
I realise this might greatly offend people but that's my position.

Well first of all, I don't think there are any plans to 'encourage children to explore gender identities', whatever that even means. Children may be taught that trans people exist (which is true) and that there are supports and systems in place for them. Nobody in a school is going to be like "hey, Jonny, are you SURE you're not really a girl? Are you really sure though???" That's utter nonsense.

I don't think it's offensive that you'd remove your children from a school because of that reason. I think it's damaging to your children, but what you do with your children is no business of mine. Just like I don't think it's the business of anyone else what trans children do - but for some reason Gemma and others seem to think it is.

I hope for their sakes, your kids aren't queer in any way, because it doesn't sound like they'd have much support from home.

baby and crumble

Auntie Semite wrote: »

The point is that the procedure unfortunately did not go well. Even with the best of medical care.
When I was young (in my late 30s now) the prevailing wisdom and what we were taught was to accept who you are and the body you were born with.

I'm the same age as you and the prevailing wisdom I was taught was that I was evil and going to hell because i was gay. I was also taught that people with disabilities were simple, and that people who had depression were 'mad'. There was no major issue with folks having a feed of pints and driving home. There were no seatbelts in the back seats of cars.

Our knowledge about how the world and we as humans works moves on. We have to too.

Auntie Semite

baby and crumble wrote: »

I'm the same age as you and the prevailing wisdom I was taught was that I was evil and going to hell because i was gay. I was also taught that people with disabilities were simple, and that people who had depression were 'mad'. There was no major issue with folks having a feed of pints and driving home. There were no seatbelts in the back seats of cars.

Our knowledge about how the world and we as humans works moves on. We have to too.

You must be older than me so, I went to a strict, Conservative Catholic school and we were taught nothing of the sort. It mightve had something to do with the fact that pretty much every priest there was clearly gay themselves.

Edit just saw you said you are around the same age

baby and crumble

Auntie Semite wrote: »

You must be older than me so, I went to a strict, Conservative Catholic school and we were taught nothing of the sort. It mightve had something to do with the fact that pretty much every priest there was clearly gay themselves.

I'm 36. I went to a progressive COI school (for both primary and secondary), i was more talking about the social attitudes of the time - the 80's & 90's.

aloneforever99

aloneforever99 wrote: »

You *still* haven't answered my question. Don't you think generations of facilitating and covering up physical, sexual and emotional abuse disqualifies the RC from controlling education?

Don't you think generations of facilitating and covering up physical, sexual and emotional abuse disqualifies the state from controlling education?

Auntie Semite

baby and crumble wrote: »

I'm the same age as you and the prevailing wisdom I was taught was that I was evil and going to hell because i was gay. I was also taught that people with disabilities were simple, and that people who had depression were 'mad'. There was no major issue with folks having a feed of pints and driving home. There were no seatbelts in the back seats of cars.

Our knowledge about how the world and we as humans works moves on. We have to too.

Reading this makes me wonder about the consistency of teaching in schools across the country. Our Catholic schooling was incredibly empathetic towards those with disabilities in fact we had to work with people with intellectual disabilities during transition year.

baby and crumble

Auntie Semite wrote: »

Reading this makes me wonder about the consistency of teaching in schools across the country. Our Catholic schooling was incredibly empathetic towards those with disabilities in fact we had to work with people with intellectual disabilities during transition year.

I said i was talking about SOCIETIES TEACHING.

Also, I doubt back int he 80's you were taught that people with disabilities were smart, and capable, and not in need of 'care' but of support to be independent? I worked with people with ID for years and the policy in Ireland in the state is still transitioning to that.

Grayson

Auntie Semite wrote: »

You must be older than me so, I went to a strict, Conservative Catholic school and we were taught nothing of the sort. It mightve had something to do with the fact that pretty much every priest there was clearly gay themselves.

Edit just saw you said you are around the same age

Personally, I left school in 93 and we heard horrible stuff about gay people. The religious indoctrination we got was pretty severe. We even had youth defense in for a talk. I was just chatting to a guy in the same company as me who left the same school in the mid 2000's. He was saying it was the same when he was there and a couple of priests also went on a bit of a mad anti islam phase after 911.

That crap shouldn't be allowed in schools. Not at all. No-one should be telling gay kids that they are unnatural. It's just wrong. And unnatural is one of the better ways they describe gay people.

skooterblue2

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

as if it's a choice between sending someone to Belvo or Clongowes, or else towards a life of crime!

Belvedere and Clongowes are absolutely no impediment to a life of crime, as we well know.

How many of the clients of Mountjoy Institute of Further Education (AKA the 'Joy) are from Private schools as opposed didnt even complete education. Oh yes you can pick out the odd Malcom McArthur and the Graham O'Dwyer, Ellio Mollocco but dig a little further. Most are from Broken homes, poor or no education with learning difficulties, family histories of addiction. John Lonergan has spoken about this.

Grayson

skooterblue2 wrote: »

How many of the clients of Mountjoy Institute of Further Education (AKA the 'Joy) are from Private schools as opposed didnt even complete education. Oh yes you can pick out the odd Malcom McArthur and the Graham O'Dwyer, Ellio Mollocco but dig a little further. Most are from Broken homes, poor or no education with learning difficulties, family histories of addiction. John Lonergan has spoken about this.

I don't think anyone is denying that children need an education and that it helps kids. people are saying it doesn't need to be religious and that the state shouldn't pay for religious education.

Auntie Semite

Auntie Semite wrote: »

I can say then that if I hear my children are being taught or encouraged at school to explore gender identities then I will immediately remove them from school

That is a very vague sentence. What actual curriculums are you aware of on the subject and what is the content?

For example I am a big believer in Sex Education in school. Just basic sex education. Forget all the alternative stuff for a moment. But if I hear my children "are being taught or encouraged to explore sex" then I would be taking issue too.

So it really comes down to what you actually mean about what they are actually being taught. If the children are being taught that these differences really do exist - that that is ok - that if they think they themselves might be children with those differences then X Y and Z are things that might help them identify if that is the case - and telling such kids where to go and what to do if they need more information or guidance - and teaching the other children that differences can be cherished and are not a focal point for victimisation and bullying and hate and fear - then I would see very little to take issue with there.

If they were saying "well go home and explore this and start cross dressing and get into it for yourself and see how it goes for you" that might be a different issue.

I think being specific here would help.

But as for what is "morally wrong" observe how quickly the other user just before you simply retreated when I asked him what was morally wrong with my own family setup and why I am somehow not a real family or am not based on love. He got nothing. He ignored and ran.

So it pays also to be specific about precisely what you think is morally wrong here. Not just what you think or pretend the schools are actually teaching either by direct claims or ominous vague implications through vagueness.

Auntie Semite wrote: »

The point is that the procedure unfortunately did not go well. Even with the best of medical care.

In that single case. Remember even the most mundane routine procedure sometimes goes horribly wrong. People have died getting their tonsils out. So yes - there will of course be people transitioning where the result goes terribly wrong. There is pretty much zero we can extrapolate from that which will be of any actual use to this thread or conversation.

Auntie Semite wrote: »

When I was young (in my late 30s now) the prevailing wisdom and what we were taught was to accept who you are and the body you were born with.

And you have privilege there as people older than you were often beaten for the body they were born with. Such as attempts to beat left handedness out of people. An anecdote of which was only posted on an After Hours thread this week in fact.

I myself would be teaching my children that the core "you" is what you can accept and you can work to change other aspects of your being and body to express that in any way that maximises your well being and - where possible - that of those around you.

Why should I accept who I am? 20 years ago I was a lay about no body with few skills. I decided not to accept that. I bettered myself in many ways. Physically and mentally and spiritually. I do not accept the person I am today. My goal each day is to make sure the person I am tomorrow is in _some_ way - no matter how small - improved on the person I am today.

Auntie Semite

baby and crumble wrote: »

I said i was talking about SOCIETIES TEACHING.

Also, I doubt back int he 80's you were taught that people with disabilities were smart, and capable, and not in need of 'care' but of support to be independent? I worked with people with ID for years and the policy in Ireland in the state is still transitioning to that.

My older sibling suffers from a physical and intellectual disability and they received care and compassion from both the social services and the wider community.

ohnonotgmail

Auntie Semite wrote: »

The point is that the procedure unfortunately did not go well. Even with the best of medical care.

Surgical procedures go wrong every day. that doesn't mean we stop doing them.

Auntie Semite wrote: »

When I was young (in my late 30s now) the prevailing wisdom and what we were taught was to accept who you are and the body you were born with.

they probably forgot to mention that that only applies if you are cis.

Auntie Semite

Grayson wrote: »

Personally, I left school in 93 and we heard horrible stuff about gay people. The religious indoctrination we got was pretty severe. We even had youth defense in for a talk. I was just chatting to a guy in the same company as me who left the same school in the mid 2000's. He was saying it was the same when he was there and a couple of priests also went on a bit of a mad anti islam phase after 911.

That crap shouldn't be allowed in schools. Not at all. No-one should be telling gay kids that they are unnatural. It's just wrong. And unnatural is one of the better ways they describe gay people.

Both the Catholic and Muslim religions believe sex is for procreation only and therefore all non procreational sex including masturbation is 'unnatural'

Auntie Semite

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Surgical procedures go wrong every day. that doesn't mean we stop doing them.





they probably forgot to mention that that only applies if you are cis.

Well of course there was no such thing as 'cis' back then. This term is a recent one. The term used back then was 'normal'
Like it or loath it that's what it was

ohnonotgmail

Auntie Semite wrote: »

Well of course there was no such thing as 'cis' back then. This term is a recent one. The term used back then was 'normal'
Like it or loath it that's what it was

so you agree then that what you were taught was not linked to reality.

baby and crumble

Auntie Semite wrote: »

My older sibling suffers from a physical and intellectual disability and they received care and compassion from both the social services and the wider community.

I'm not saying that people didn't care. of course they did. I'm saying that the current prevailing knowledge and policy working with people with ID is to support them to be as independent as possible, and to assume competency in as many tasks as possible. In the 1980's it was assumed that people with ID should be 'put away' for their own protection. Times move on and change as they should. that's my point.

skooterblue2

Grayson wrote: »

I don't think anyone is denying that children need an education and that it helps kids. people are saying it doesn't need to be religious and that the state shouldn't pay for religious education.

So you are proposing closing and buying out many fine schools? With what money? I wish I could have gone to religious school instead of state "tech" with politically appointed teachers (ie they couldnt get jobs anywhere else).