The war on meat

silverharp

I avoid all seed oils now. If you notice most processed food use something like rapeseed oil because its cheap. To get the oil though they have to use a lot of heat and chemicals to extract the oil, there is no comparison with a good quality cold pressed olive oil. Keep the rapeseed oil as a diesel replacement

topper75

Solomon Pleasant wrote: »

If we don’t stop eating meat at the current rate then preventing the worse effects of climate change will be impossible.

Million strong herds of bison on the prairie in N. America way back when... all farting huge grass farts into the atmosphere.

Then those planet saviours arrived with their Springfields and took care of business.

I salute them. Those bison could have screwed up our planet damn it.

suicide_circus

sorry now but quorn is pure bollox

gozunda

topper75 wrote: »

Million strong herds of bison on the prairie in N. America way back when... all farting huge grass farts into the atmosphere.Then those planet saviours arrived with their Springfields and took care of business.I salute them. Those bison could have screwed up our planet damn it.

Interstingly among the big vegan movers and shakers there are those proposing not only to wipe out all domestic and farm animals off the planet - they want to do the same for all wild predators and put any remaining wild animals on birth control. Looks like it will be only farting vegans left so ...

The majority of the planet's 50,000 or so vertebrate species are vegetarian. But among the minority of carnivorous species are some of the best known creatures on the planet. Should these serial killers be permitted to prey on other sentient beings indefinitely?

It's crucial that at some point the animal-rights movement moves beyond farm, laboratory, and companion animals. The scale of brutality in nature is too vast to ignore, and humans have an obligation to exercise their cosmically rare position as both intelligent and empathetic creatures to reduce suffering in the wild as much as they can.

https://foundational-research.org/the-importance-of-wild-animal-suffering/

https://www.hedweb.com/abolitionist-project/reprogramming-predators.html

enfant terrible

silverharp wrote: »

I avoid all seed oils now. If you notice most processed food use something like rapeseed oil because its cheap. To get the oil though they have to use a lot of heat and chemicals to extract the oil, there is no comparison with a good quality cold pressed olive oil. Keep the rapeseed oil as a diesel replacement

Any oil recommendations?

Deebles McBeebles

is_that_so wrote: »

Palm oil is a super oil. It's how its production is managed is the problem.

But he/she said end of story!

suicide_circus wrote: »

sorry now but quorn is pure bollox

Jaysus, wouldn't have thought that would count as vegan.

topper75

gozunda wrote: »

Interstingly among the big vegan movers and shakers there are those proposing not only to wipe out all domestic and farm animals off the planet - they want to do the same for all wild predators and put any remaining wild animals on birth control. Looks like it will be only farting vegans left so ...

Much of this vegan thing is long on emotion and short on rational thought.

When empathy results in wiping out a species ultimately, I don't ever want people like that fighting my corner.

Grayson

topper75 wrote: »

Much of this vegan thing is long on emotion and short on rational thought.

When empathy results in wiping out a species ultimately, I don't ever want people like that fighting my corner.

To be fair the vast amount of vegetarians, vegans etc want to see biodiversity maintained.

yourdeadwright

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

But he/she said end of story!



Jaysus, wouldn't have thought that would count as vegan.

Its he

Displacement of indigenous peoples, deforestation and loss of biodiversity are all consequences of our palm oil consumption, that my friend is factual ,

Unearthly

Succubus_ wrote: »

I'm thinking of going pescetarian. I don't think I could completely cut meat out of my diet as I'm a total carnivore but I'm going to try to stick to fish and quorn products. I don't think I'll be completely rigid in that though, even reducing my intake of meat would be better for the environment. I've also been struggling with how pigs and chickens are kept and treated and I can't help thinking of it now when I have my rasher sandwich. It's ruining the tastiness for me so time to go for quorn instead.

Hi Succubus.

I would definitely recommend it. I used to be a big meat eater along with eggs. This was until I saw my blood pressure, and cholesterol were beginning to go high despite being normal weight and cycling over 100km a week

Cutting out meat and dairy has corrected this. On top of this I am not participating in the unnecessary slaughtering of animals that we don't need in our diet. Humans can thrive on plant based food. Scientific research is now very much in favour of less meat for issues like heart disease, weight and cancer

It might seem daunting at first but can be done. It will also help you understand the nutritional value of other foods and will you get your cooking skills up to scratch.

All the best

RobbieTheRobber

topper75 wrote: »

Million strong herds of bison on the prairie in N. America way back when... all farting huge grass farts into the atmosphere.

Then those planet saviours arrived with their Springfields and took care of business.

I salute them. Those bison could have screwed up our planet damn it.

Do you reckon at the height of the bison population in america there were as many bison as there are cattle now in america?

Grayson

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Do you reckon at the height of the bison population in america there were as many bison as there are cattle now in america?

Not to mention other domesticated animals. And the carbon emission from them wasn't along with all the industrialisation. Plus they were part of a natural carbon cycle.

silverharp

Unearthly wrote: »

Hi Succubus.

I would definitely recommend it. I used to be a big meat eater along with eggs. This was until I saw my blood pressure, and cholesterol were beginning to go high despite being normal weight and cycling over 100km a week

Cutting out meat and dairy has corrected this. On top of this I am not participating in the unnecessary slaughtering of animals that we don't need in our diet. Humans can thrive on plant based food. Scientific research is now very much in favour of less meat for issues like heart disease, weight and cancer

It might seem daunting at first but can be done. It will also help you understand the nutritional value of other foods and will you get your cooking skills up to scratch.

All the best

most of the studies are pretty dubious though, eat a lot of meat , pizza , cake and nachos and somehow meat is the problem. Traditional "Med" diets or French diet always beat the modern Anglo world way of eating. All you can say for sure is eat the most whole food you can and eat the least processed food you can

1641

silverharp wrote: »

I avoid all seed oils now. If you notice most processed food use something like rapeseed oil because its cheap. To get the oil though they have to use a lot of heat and chemicals to extract the oil, there is no comparison with a good quality cold pressed olive oil. Keep the rapeseed oil as a diesel replacement

No doubt some/much of it is junk - the same as cheap -or not so cheap - olive oils (often reported to be contaminated to keep down cost, eg,

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/jan/04/olive-oil-real-thing).


Get your rapeseed oil from a reliable producer. Fortunately there are a number of excellent Irish ones such as :
https://donegalrapeseedoil.ie/cold-pressed-rapeseed-oil/

silverharp

enfant terrible wrote: »

Any oil recommendations?

Olive oil & coconut oil work for most things and have been eaten for thousands of years. Its difficult to get processed food that use them though, mayo is all rapeseed oil and supermarket humus ditto some kind of seed oil even though its traditionally made with olive oil

Deebles McBeebles

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its he

Displacement of indigenous peoples, deforestation and loss of biodiversity are all consequences of our palm oil consumption, that my friend is factual ,

Those are also all consequences of human overpopulation.

Those are also all consequences of the need for more and more grassland for grazing animals and crop growth. I know you've seen the palm oil stories in the papers for the last few years and it is true that palm oil is a problem but vegans are not the problem as you seem to think. Palm oil is used in everything. I'm not a vegan btw so I don't particularly care what you think about them but you should at least get your facts right.

gozunda

Grayson wrote: »

To be fair the vast amount of vegetarians, vegans etc want to see biodiversity maintained.

I get what you are saying but respectfully I would have to disagree. There are countless Facebook pages and a huge amount of social media advocating the stopping of what some call 'Wild animal suffering.' One of the chief influencers of the vegan movement this country (not going to mention names btw) is one of the biggest proponents of this idea.

A lot of what I see online is 'soft soaping' advocating people to change what they eat in order to 'save animals'. The thing is no animal is 'saved' for some mythical realease into the wild just because someone skips their ham sandwich or whatever. The truth is that mainstream veganism advocates for the wiping out all domestic and farmed animals. And you can bet ya that to be followed up with wiping out wild predator species given time.

Taken to its logical conclusion - it would be a world devoid of any animals except those animals which fit into the tenets of a specific belief system. That is is not a world I want to be part of tbh.

1641

enfant terrible wrote: »

Any oil recommendations?

Here's another Irish rapeseed oil that is getting great praise from top chefs.


I have no opinion on it as I haven't tried it. Its great to have good quality local products though.


http://thetaste.ie/wp/cook-like-a-michelin-starred-chef-at-home-the-collar-of-gold-story/

Deebles McBeebles

gozunda wrote: »

The truth is that mainstream veganism advocates for the wiping out all domestic and farmed animals. And you can bet ya that to be followed up with wiping out wild carnivore species given time.

Taken to its logical conclusion - it would be a world devoid of any animals except those animals which fit into the tenets of a specific belief system. That is is not a world I want to be part of tbh.

That's just nuts. I have never come across anyone with that belief.

gozunda

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

That's just nuts. I have never come across anyone with that belief.

Its nuts alright. Take a read of the links I gave. Then take a look on social media. One of the chief advocates of that in Ireland is a well know academic and a huge influencer of the vegan movement.

All I would say is be careful what you buy into ....

Buford T. Justice XIX

qwerty ui op wrote: »

You do understand that anyone can simply go back and read what was said.
When I read your post it's clear you're going to obfuscate, deflect and do anything or everything to try stop a simple discussion.

lOL, perhaps you could return and answer the question

Now, as to your first paragraph, I know you're going to furnish proof for that accusation, aren't you?

I'd hate to accuse you of deflection and obfuscation but...

So i'll keep it simple and ask again.

Great.

I'm concerned about a few aspects of everyday farming, maybe you or someone else can help me understand.


How do you stop a calfs horns from growing? How common do you think it is for farmers to let horns get bigger than whats recommended by the department?

The calves are dehorned by debudding following a local anesthetic. Standard simple operation carried out to prevent danger when animals are older. More or less a legal requirement as cattle cannot be sold while being horned.

How does an experienced farmer get trained up in using a Jack which as the name suggests is a JACK! with the power of 6 men?

Not exactly rocket science but very simple to use and simpler to know when to request a vets presence. Plenty more calving videos there for you to peruse at your leisure.

How common is it for farmers to make no weaning preparations and just rip the calf away and lock up the cow at weaning?

Lol, rip the calf away? Your use of emotive language betrays your unwillingness to view with impartiality. We don't 'rip' the calf away like a baby carrot from the furrow, the calf is ran ahead of the cow while grazing with fresh grass and some concentrates and finally a plastic paddle is inserted on the calfs nose for 3 days and the cow removed on the third day. No mewling, no bawling, no outrage necessary as the calf is near 8 months old. Again, information that is freely available online and in real life.

and again how do you get cattle to go somewhere they are too frightened to go ? such as from a pen up into a truck?

Again, a simple circular gate leading into a walkway straight into the trailer or lorry, a simple device that cost less than 500 euro so no stress on man or beast.

Any chance of people sticking to the questions asked.

Perhaps you could follow your own request, that would be great, thanks.

1641

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

That's just nuts. I have never come across anyone with that belief.

I wonder have they started lecturing other carnivore species about their unethical and cruel habits :



"Hey Lions, have you tried avocado?"


"Hello Mr Robin, what about some grassseed?"

Deebles McBeebles

gozunda wrote: »

Its nuts alright. Read the links I gave. Then take a look on social media. All I would say is be careful what you buy into ....

I'm so careful I'm not even on social media. I would say the vast majority of vegetarians and vegans would not go along with that at all. There are extremists in every matter.

Unearthly

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

I'm so careful I'm not even on social media. I would say the vast majority of vegetarians and vegans would not go along with that at all. There are extremists in every matter.

Indeed.

The opposite extreme of meat eaters would be a guy called 'Sv3rige' can find him on YouTube. An all carnivore diet. Says vegetables and fruit are unhealthy, denies all science put to him, and has said he has cravings for human flesh to

Nutters on every side

gozunda

Unearthly wrote: »

Hi Succubus.
I would definitely recommend it. I used to be a big meat eater along with eggs. This was until I saw my blood pressure, and cholesterol were beginning to go high despite being normal weight and cycling over 100km a week
Cutting out meat and dairy has corrected this. On top of this I am not participating in the unnecessary slaughtering of animals that we don't need in our diet. Humans can thrive on plant based food. Scientific research is now very much in favour of less meat for issues like heart disease, weight and cancer It might seem daunting at first but can be done. It will also help you understand the nutritional value of other foods and will you get your cooking skills up to scratch.

All the best

Tbh must studies have shown cutting out ****e junk foods, exercising and eating moderately is the healthiest option for most people. I find a lot of the current food movement extreme and completely wrapped up in ideology and too much of misinformation tbh.

I eat a regular mixed diet including vegetables, fruit, meat and some dairy and my cholesterol and blood pressure are absolutely fine.

As an Island nation if we genuinely concerned for the environment - then importing foods which gather huge food miles and are often produced in areas with few or any ethical or environmental standards is not something we should be encouraging tbh. That's it really...

Unearthly

gozunda wrote: »

Tbh must studies have shown cutting out ****e junk foods, exercising and eating moderately is the healthiest option for most people. I find a lot of the current food movement extreme and completely wrapped up in ideology and too much of misinformation tbh.

I eat a regular mixed diet including vegetables, fruit, meat and some dairy and my cholesterol and blood pressure are absolutely fine.

As an Island nation if we genuinely concerned for the environment - then importing foods which gather huge food miles and are often produced in areas with few or any ethical or environmental standards is not something we should be encouraging tbh. That's it really...

No doubting your health Gozunda. You are probably very active in your job unlike me in an office job

Processed meat is considered a Class 1 carcinogen by the world health organisation (sausages, bacon etc)

I see people gorge on that on a daily basis in work, or whenever visiting a shop at the deli

Everything though in moderation, whole foods for the win

yourdeadwright

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Those are also all consequences of human overpopulation.

Those are also all consequences of the need for more and more grassland for grazing animals and crop growth. I know you've seen the palm oil stories in the papers for the last few years and it is true that palm oil is a problem but vegans are not the problem as you seem to think. Palm oil is used in everything. I'm not a vegan btw so I don't particularly care what you think about them but you should at least get your facts right.

Palm oil is used in everything is such weak rebuttal,

No one is disputting its not in load of stuff but its Vegans who cite issues with Meat , some of the same issues are caused by there intake of Palm Oil,

They do not have problem with Palm Oil as it doesn't suit there agenda,,

As I previously stated they are hypocrites ,

yourdeadwright

"unnecessary slaughtering of animals "


Serious questions ?

These animal would not exist if they where not bred to be eaten ,

Is it better to have lived and be eaten or to never have lived at all ?

gozunda

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

I'm so careful I'm not even on social media. I would say the vast majority of vegetarians and vegans would not go along with that at all. There are extremists in every matter.

Btw this is not 'one ' YouTube nutter btw

I really would love to agree with you thats it's just 'extremists'. Unfortunately this is a well funded and supported movement within the vegan community. It has a number of high profile academic advocates and includes bodies such as Foundational Research Institute (FRI) and the Wild Animal Suffering (WAS) research organisation, with various academic and other advocates promoting these ideas at conferences internationally and online etc.

Again what is being promoted is not only the complete eradication of farm and domestic animals but also either the complete eradication or genetic alteration of predator species and the use of artificial birth control on remaining species as a way of limiting their numbers. It is one of the areas which I find truely disturbing. That these ideas have many grassroot supporters is also deeply worrying imo.

Deebles McBeebles

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Palm oil is used in everything is such weak rebuttal,

No one is disputting its not in load of stuff but its Vegans who cite issues with Meat , some of the same issues are caused by there intake of Palm Oil,

They do not have problem with Palm Oil as it doesn't suit there agenda,,

As I previously stated they are hypocrites ,

Calling a group of people you have no idea about, hypocritical, is also pretty weak. I've never met anyone who disputes palm oil is a problem, it would be stupid to do so. You have ignored the rest of my post to get your dig in but your argument is nonsensical.