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6 Nations 2019 Build Up thread

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    #512
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,178 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Leinstertomas wrote: »
    Those players are hardly poor and I'd say most winning teams have had players in the squad and even 15 who you wouldn't class as top level

    No, they're not poor. The point is that they were guys who were regularly scoffed at by punters previously in their careers. Gatland has made them into the players that they are. Hadleigh Parkes was a journeyman nobody in NZ. Josh Navidi was seen as an average Pro14 flanker up to his mid-twenties for the Blues. Tomos Williams isn't even a certain starter for Cardiff still but started the 6N opener in Paris.

    Gatland has made these players what they are and gets them to perform to a higher level than they have ever reached or shown the ability to reach.

    Other top nations have players who aren't widely classified as top level but not near to the same level as Wales. In Ireland nearly all of our frst choice players are proven performers who have performed at a high level consistently for their province in top level club games for a sustained period with only a couple of exceptions.


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    #513
    Leinstertomas
    Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭Leinstertomas


    Buer wrote: »
    No, they're not poor. The point is that they were guys who were regularly scoffed at by punters previously in their careers. Gatland has made them into the players that they are. Hadleigh Parkes was a journeyman nobody in NZ. Josh Navidi was seen as an average Pro14 flanker up to his mid-twenties for the Blues. Tomos Williams isn't even a certain starter for Cardiff still but started the 6N opener in Paris.

    Gatland has made these players what they are and gets them to perform to a higher level than they have ever reached or shown the ability to reach.

    Other top nations have players who aren't widely classified as top level but not near to the same level as Wales. In Ireland nearly all of our first choice players are proven performers who have performed at a high level consistently for their province in top level club games for a sustained period with only a couple of exceptions.
    Agree that he's done great in getting the best out of these players but has he really achieved meaningful success with them yet? Fair enough if they win the slam but I'd argue that none of Wales results or performances this year you could say were surprising or unexpected. Their title winning squads from before were mostly made up of world class players from my memory, open to correction though.


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    #514
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dickie10 wrote: »
    jesus big statement, Gatland is a rugby genius though, best manager i can remember in world rugby even ahead of woodward. some acheivement what hes done in wales. i think it will be very tight but wales surely with home advantage and a grand slam on the line will do it. like i say we have nothing really to play for and i think the players dont belive they will actually win the championship,very hard to get overly up for the game in the same way wales will be. hopefully we dont go in with half an eye on club rugby and get tanked but i dont think the players will let that happen still the way we conceded tries in last five minutes to france is a worry. wales by 6

    All things going to plan Ireland will have a World Cup final coming up later this year. This is the last opportunity we have to play in an away fixture with similar levels of intensity, atmosphere and noise.

    The lads are going to treat this like life and death. This is going to be a brutal game and I expect us to come out on top.

    Statement coming up.


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    #515
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,178 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Leinstertomas wrote: »
    Agree that he's done great in getting the best out of these players but has he really achieved meaningful success with them yet? Fair enough if they win the slam but I'd argue that none of Wales results or performances this year you could say were surprising or unexpected. Their title winning squads from before were mostly made up of world class players from my memory, open to correction though.

    Well, this will be his 3rd Grand Slam and his 4 title potentially so I would say yes. He hasn't been winning titles every second year but no team really should be.

    When he took over, Welsh rugby was in the absolute doldrums after being knocked out of the RWC by Fiji. 6 months later, he won a Grand Slam with the same players. A lot of those guys then departed in the nexr 2-3 years and he reinvented the team.

    He had a good few guys who would go on to be proven quality but also many of them who were either questionable in their ability or never came close to replicating their performances in a Welsh jersey elsewhere....guys like Rhys Priestland, Ian Evans, Andy Powell, Rhys Gill, Lloyd Williams, Lou Reed, Luke Charteris...these were all guys that played in their last Grand Slam. Even the likes of Mike Phillips, Alex Cuthbert and Dan Lydiate never came close to the same levels elsewhere as they did for Gatland.


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    #516
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 5,961 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Gatland has done well with Wales. They do perform better as a team than I would expect from the group of players and this has been the case for awhile so he deserves credit for that. Along with Edwards. Gatland seems to have flourished in the NH. Successful with Wales and Wasps (I don't know enough about his time with Connacht and Ireland to comment) but he couldn't replicate that back in NZ with Waikato. Whereas Hansen was the reverse.

    I wouldn't give him all the credit for the performances of a journeymen like Parkes though. He was putting in very good performances for the Scarlets way before Gatland coached him.


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    #517
    Dickie10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,865 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    ah lads come on! ireland in a world cup final?? can you honestly say that with a straight face?! christ i think we all know the writing is on the wall and always was that we will get done by the all blacks or springboks in the quaterfinal. i wouldnt be at all surprised if its the all blacks in quater final, i think south africa could turn them over in the group game


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    #518
    Amprodude
    Registered Users Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭Amprodude


    Dickie10 wrote: »
    ah lads come on! ireland in a world cup final?? can you honestly say that with a straight face?! christ i think we all know the writing is on the wall and always was that we will get done by the all blacks or springboks in the quaterfinal. i wouldnt be at all surprised if its the all blacks in quater final, i think south africa could turn them over in the group game

    Fair play you are talking sense here. I agree Ireland will be out of the tournament after quarter final stage and some of the so called experts on here will be saying the reason they lost it because of unfair ref or decision etc. Let's face it guys we aren't going to win the world cup or come close to it. We will come closer to the bottle if you ask me.


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    #519
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Amprodude wrote: »
    Fair play you are talking sense here. I agree Ireland will be out of the tournament after quarter final stage and some of the so called experts on here will be saying the reason they lost it because of unfair ref or decision etc. Let's face it guys we aren't going to win the world cup or come close to it. We will come closer to the bottle if you ask me.

    Who's calling themselves an expert?!


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    #520
    Dickie10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,865 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    we did well last year unfortunatly we peaked a 12-16 months too soon. lets not forget we beat the all blacks at the end of their season and begining of our own, we make far too much out of beating new zeland england or france dont go on about it near as much when they beat them.


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    #521
    Amprodude
    Registered Users Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭Amprodude


    aloooof wrote: »
    Who's calling themselves an expert?!

    Plenty of them on here.


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    #522
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    Amprodude wrote: »
    It will come down to the final day. If Wales fail to beat Ireland England will have a plain sail to the championship. Ireland havent a hope now and I bet we may struggle to beat France tomorrow.
    Amprodude wrote: »
    Wales are a beaten team. They won't do nothing in the 2nd half and England will sail to victory.

    Yeah, way too many Experts.


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    #523
    razorblunt
    Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    Scottish rumours suggesting Skinner will be back at the weekend but Ritchie might drop to the bench (harsh if true).
    Gray has finally been dropped too.


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    #524
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Dickie10 wrote: »
    we did well last year unfortunatly we peaked a 12-16 months too soon. lets not forget we beat the all blacks at the end of their season and begining of our own, we make far too much out of beating new zeland england or france dont go on about it near as much when they beat them.

    We had never beaten them up until 2016. We had never beaten them at home up until 2018. It makes sense that we would make a bigger deal out of it than England or France, in that context.

    But if you asked me who's in a better position to beat them between ourselves and France, then I know who I'm backing.


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    #525
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,646 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    https://twitter.com/FFRugby/status/1106110214137241600?s=19 https://twitter.com/EnglandRugby/status/1106140505606361089?s=19


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    #526
    razorblunt
    Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    Alldrit definitely deserves the start for the French.


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    #527
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm an expert. We should beat South Africa in the quarters but a loss wouldn't be impossible. Liklihood of facing nz is slim. SA might have beaten them in Wellington but watch it again. NZ lost that game like how France gifted Wales the win this year and SA played out of their skin.


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    #528
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,646 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Wales name unchanged squad.

    https://twitter.com/WelshRugbyUnion/status/1106163181506969600


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    #529
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,646 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Italian team here. Ireland and Scotland only ones left


    https://twitter.com/Federugby/status/1106171631490220038


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    #530
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm an expert. We should beat South Africa in the quarters but a loss wouldn't be impossible. Liklihood of facing nz is slim. SA might have beaten them in Wellington but watch it again. NZ lost that game like how France gifted Wales the win this year and SA played out of their skin.

    Who would Ireland likely play in semi if topped the group and beat SA in a quarter?


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    #531
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    Eod100 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/FFRugby/status/1106110214137241600?s=19 https://twitter.com/EnglandRugby/status/1106140505606361089?s=19

    After a few subtle changes throughout the tournament its back to the team v Ireland, with injuries ruling out Itoje & Vunipola


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    #532
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,346 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    jr86 wrote: »
    Who would Ireland likely play in semi if topped the group and beat SA in a quarter?

    Winner of Australia/WalesvEngland/France/Arg QF would be our opponent.


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    #533
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Winner of Australia/WalesvEngland/France/Arg QF would be our opponent.

    It's really hard to project as far as the semi final.


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    #534
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,646 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Scotland team out

    https://twitter.com/Scotlandteam/status/1106178311238156288


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    #535
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,024 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    that team will be eaten alive in twickenham

    edit: although by kick off time there may be no appetite for england to put up a huge score


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    #536
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    troyzer wrote: »
    It's really hard to project as far as the semi final.

    A lot will really depend on how good Australia are I guess

    Historically they have performed well at World Cups for the most part - since 95, 07 is the only year they failed to make a semi. And they lost to the champions on each of those occasions since 95 where they made at least semi (won it in 99)


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    #537
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Jonny Gray can't be fit to be on the bench


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    #538
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,346 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    troyzer wrote: »
    It's really hard to project as far as the semi final.

    Yup, though I would expect it to be AusvFra in that quarter and us ultimately playing Aus if we got through.


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    #539
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Yup, though I would expect it to be AusvFra in that quarter and us ultimately playing Aus if we got through.

    I've seen very little of Argentina the last few years, but the Jaguares are playing well and they seem to be competitive in the Rugby Championship - surely they'd be too good for this French team?


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    #540
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,646 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Can we get through 6N first before planning for the RWC? :P


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    #541
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,009 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Yup, though I would expect it to be AusvFra in that quarter and us ultimately playing Aus if we got through.


    I thought about a sneaky bet of Aus making the final again, easiest route to a final ever for them. Even if they are at a low ebb, they are still likely to beat wales, france, arg. Only gets difficult for them in the semi's.


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