6 Nations 2019 Build Up thread

mangobob · 09-03-2019 7:18pm

Flood gates opening now.

Amprodude · 09-03-2019 7:20pm

mangobob wrote: »

Flood gates opening now.

It will come down to the final day. If Wales fail to beat Ireland England will have a plain sail to the championship. Ireland havent a hope now and I bet we may struggle to beat France tomorrow.

Larbre34 · 09-03-2019 7:21pm

What was that italian duffer at.

Eod100 · 09-03-2019 7:24pm

Amprodude wrote: »

It will come down to the final day. If Wales fail to beat Ireland England will have a plain sail to the championship. Ireland havent a hope now and I bet we may struggle to beat France tomorrow.

A tbp for England vs Italy was inevitable. Realistically it was an uphill battle for Championship after losing to England

TCM · 09-03-2019 7:30pm

I've always been a fan of French rugby. Not as flamboyant as in years past. However I do expect the french aristocrats to brush aside the Irish challenge tomorrow.

The Lost Sheep · 09-03-2019 7:35pm

Amprodude wrote: »

Throw Italy out of this competition they are dreadful.

Throwing them out for being poor? No.
We need 6 teams and Italians are 6th best in europe.
What benefit does italians not being in tournament give us?

Exclamation Marc · 09-03-2019 7:36pm

What is the point of Italy in this tournament at this stage.

Their sole contribution has been denying Wales a bonus point.

09-03-2019 7:36pm

TCM wrote: »

I've always been a fan of French rugby. Not as flamboyant as in years past. However I do expect the french aristocrats to brush aside the Irish challenge tomorrow.

Tell us why?

Is it their recent track record against us or their recent track record in general? Is it their away record?

Exclamation Marc · 09-03-2019 7:36pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Throwing them out for being poor? No.
We need 6 teams and Italians are 6th best in europe.
What benefit does italians not being in tournament give us?

Fair points but what benefit does Italy being in it have either? A nice trip to Rome?

The Lost Sheep · 09-03-2019 7:39pm

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Fair points but what benefit does Italy being in it have either? A nice trip to Rome?

They benefit more than being on outside. They should be playing the Georgias, Romanias, Russias more(though we and other 6 nations sides should as well) but they do bring plenty.

thebaz · 09-03-2019 8:14pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

They benefit more than being on outside. They should be playing the Georgias, Romanias, Russias more(though we and other 6 nations sides should as well) but they do bring plenty.

I do agree ther should be 6 teams in it - but I am bored watching Italy get hammered game after game, they should be forced to play the winners of the tier below 6 nations, probably Georgia , for a 6 nations place - they probably would win , but why are the so scared to do so ??

money I suppose, but losing should have consequences, a competive victory might actually help Italian rugby -

The Lost Sheep · 09-03-2019 8:17pm

thebaz wrote: »

I do agree ther should be 6 teams in it - but I am bored watching Italy get hammered game after game, they should be forced to play the winners of the tier below 6 nations, probably Georgia, they probably would win, but why are the so scared to do so??

money I suppose, but losing should have consequences, a competive victory might actually help Italian rugby -

Italy played Georgia in November. Italy won 28-17.

Eod100 · 09-03-2019 8:18pm

thebaz wrote: »

I do agree ther should be 6 teams in it - but I am bored watching Italy get hammered game after game, they should be forced to play the winners of the tier below 6 nations, probably Georgia , they probably would win , but why are the so scared to do so ??

money I suppose, but losing should have consequences, a competive victory might actually help Italian rugby -

Gets messy though, how do you plan alternate home/away fixtures with relegation?

Don't think there's any appetite for it really besides practical obstacles

Exclamation Marc · 09-03-2019 8:20pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Italy played Georgia in November. Italy won 28-17.

One win doesn't mean that they would be roundly better than Georgia in the competition. Its obviously a tricky problem to solve but Italy games aren't even enjoyable to watch anymore and neither Italy nor any team they face have any takeaways from the matches.

I just don't see at this point what Italy even get out of it, outside of a cash windfall. Their players and fans must be miserable spending half the international rugby calendar getting thoroughly hockeyed. Their coaching ticket must be worn out.

Italy have lost their last 21 Six Nations games.

The Lost Sheep · 09-03-2019 8:22pm

Eod100 wrote: »

Gets messy though, how do you plan alternate home/away fixtures with relegation?

Don't think there's any appetite for it really besides practical obstacles

Like a large number of league competitions worldwide do. The promoted side takes same fixtures as the 6th side. Ireland play France/England home every second year if Ireland are relegated you just replace them in their fixtures with whoevers promoted.
There isnt any appetite from the existing nations who have only their interests at heart and dont care about potential for growth as losing out on even a years 6 nations income would wreck their income overall potentially for long time

thebaz · 09-03-2019 8:23pm

Eod100 wrote: »

Gets messy though, how do you plan alternate home/away fixtures with relegation?

Don't think there's any appetite for it really besides practical obstacles

but at what point should losing every game not have consequences - I'm a rugby fan, and had no interest in watching this English/Italian game - Italy national team has not been competive since the 90's , ther should be consequences for 20 years of continuous defeat in the 6 Nation - think a 2 legged play off , would be good for the game - probably never happen - but should.

The Lost Sheep · 09-03-2019 8:24pm

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

One win doesn't mean that they would be roundly better than Georgia in the competition. Its obviously a tricky problem to solve but Italy games aren't even enjoyable to watch anymore and neither Italy nor any team they face have any takeaways from the matches.

I just don't see at this point what Italy even get out of it, outside of a cash windfall. Their players and fans must be miserable spending half the international rugby calendar getting thoroughly hockeyed. Their coaching ticket must be worn out.

Italy have lost their last 21 Six Nations games.

And Georgia or anyone else isnt going to be any better.
There isnt anything to be gained from Italy not competing as there isnt another side to replace them who would be any bit better and going back to 5 nations isnt the answe.
Would you have said same about Ireland and whats point of them competing in the 5 nations back in the 90s? We didnt finish higher than 4th in that entire decade.

Exclamation Marc · 09-03-2019 8:33pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Would you have said same about Ireland and whats point of them competing in the 5 nations back in the 90s? We didnt finish higher than 4th in that entire decade.

That's a very fair point. I think theres a small benefit of the doubt you give Ireland coming out of the amateur era but nonetheless, that's a very fair comment. But Ireland DID get better in time.

So with that in mind, at what point do you make a change? If Italy spend the next five or ten years being hockeyed, should they still remain? Do they have an indefinite right to remain if they bring nothing to the table?

The Lost Sheep · 09-03-2019 8:36pm

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

That's a very fair point. I think theres a small benefit of the doubt you give Ireland coming out of the amateur era but nonetheless, that's a very fair comment. But Ireland DID get better in time.

So with that in mind, at what point do you make a change? If Italy spend the next five or ten years being hockeyed, should they still remain? Do they have an indefinite right to remain if they bring nothing to the table?

We do need to expand the number of teams but that can only start with Ireland, Italy and rest 6 nations playing Georgia, Romania, Russia and rest of ENC sides more often both at home and travelling to play them in their own countries.
I dont think there is any benefit of doubt you should be giving Ireland. You have to look at financial aspect of it as well. Can Georgians offer much more than Italians off the pitch as well as on the pitch.

thebaz · 09-03-2019 8:39pm

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Do they have an indefinite right to remain if they bring nothing to the table?

They bring a bi-annual holiday to Rome for some - I really would like to see Italy do well, and root for them in most games , but I think at this stage they need some incentive to improve - the possibilty of relegation or even relegation play-off.

The Lost Sheep · 09-03-2019 8:43pm

thebaz wrote: »

They bring a bi-annual holiday to Rome for some - I really would like to see Italy do well, and root for them in most games , but I think at this stage they need some incentive to improve - the possibilty of relegation or even relegation play-off.

They played and beat the side most would consider the next best in Europe in an unofficial relegation playoff in November. If Georgia had won the shouts for change would be louder.

Exclamation Marc · 09-03-2019 8:51pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

We do need to expand the number of teams but that can only start with Ireland, Italy and rest 6 nations playing Georgia, Romania, Russia and rest of ENC sides more often both at home and travelling to play them in their own countries.
I dont think there is any benefit of doubt you should be giving Ireland. You have to look at financial aspect of it as well. Can Georgians offer much more than Italians off the pitch as well as on the pitch.

One game isn't conclusive proof that Georgia can't do better than Italy in this competition.

thebaz · 09-03-2019 8:55pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

They played and beat the side most would consider the next best in Europe in an unofficial relegation playoff in November. If Georgia had won the shouts for change would be louder.

I believe the game was played in Italy , a 2 legged affair would be a fairer indication - I dont think its good for the game to have a team continuosly losing in a tournament , with zero consequences - and as said really would like Italian rugby to progress , but its not.

Heymans · 09-03-2019 9:05pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Like a large number of league competitions worldwide do. The promoted side takes same fixtures as the 6th side. Ireland play France/England home every second year if Ireland are relegated you just replace them in their fixtures with whoevers promoted.
There isnt any appetite from the existing nations who have only their interests at heart and dont care about potential for growth as losing out on even a years 6 nations income would wreck their income overall potentially for long time

And that’s the backward inward thinking that leads to stagnation. Those teams will never be competitive if they are given nothing to play for. It’s like the boss in work never giving any promotions because he’s wary of other interests taking over his business. What about the poor workers who show up day in day out. It’s what kept the royal powers in Europe in power for so long with just a few people generation after generation getting the same opportunities and the vast majority of people in poverty. Open it up.

troyzer · 09-03-2019 9:09pm

Heymans wrote: »

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Like a large number of league competitions worldwide do. The promoted side takes same fixtures as the 6th side. Ireland play France/England home every second year if Ireland are relegated you just replace them in their fixtures with whoevers promoted.
There isnt any appetite from the existing nations who have only their interests at heart and dont care about potential for growth as losing out on even a years 6 nations income would wreck their income overall potentially for long time

And that’s the backward inward thinking that leads to stagnation. Those teams will never be competitive if they are given nothing to play for. It’s like the boss in work never giving any promotions because he’s wary of other interests taking over his business. What about the poor workers who show up day in day out. It’s what kept the royal powers in Europe in power for so long with just a few people generation after generation getting the same opportunities and the vast majority of people in poverty. Open it up.

But Italy are ****e and have been in the competition for nearly 20 years. There is absolutely no reason to think Georgia would be any different.

Heymans · 09-03-2019 9:15pm

troyzer wrote: »

But Italy are ****e and have been in the competition for nearly 20 years. There is absolutely no reason to think Georgia would be any different.

But if there was relegation and promotion to and from the 6 nations it would lead to the growth of the world game and wouldn’t keep it an inbred backward British empire game. The 6 nations is basically a British isles competition. Do you know how backward that is for an Irishman? The Lions is a hark back to the days of the empire. It’s outdated.

mod - banned

The Lost Sheep · 09-03-2019 9:25pm

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

One game isn't conclusive proof that Georgia can't do better than Italy in this competition.

Yes but it

thebaz wrote: »

I believe the game was played in Italy , a 2 legged affair would be a fairer indication - I dont think its good for the game to have a team continuosly losing in a tournament, with zero consequences - and as said really would like Italian rugby to progress, but its not.

Possibly would be a fairer indication but that they played them at all was something. Georgia need more tests against all 6 nations sides. Italians were getting games against all the 5 nations before they were admitted to the tournament. Same needs to happen with Georgia.

Heymans wrote: »

And that’s the backward inward thinking that leads to stagnation. Those teams will never be competitive if they are given nothing to play for. It’s like the boss in work never giving any promotions because he’s wary of other interests taking over his business. What about the poor workers who show up day in day out. It’s what kept the royal powers in Europe in power for so long with just a few people generation after generation getting the same opportunities and the vast majority of people in poverty. Open it up.

No it isnt. Just opening up tournament doesnt help Georgia or Italy if neither are suited to yoyoing between rugby championship and 6 nations.

troyzer wrote: »

But Italy are ****e and have been in the competition for nearly 20 years. There is absolutely no reason to think Georgia would be any different.

Kind of agree.

Heymans wrote: »

But if there was relegation and promotion to and from the 6 nations it would lead to the growth of the world game and wouldn’t keep it an inbred backward British empire game. The 6 nations is basically a British isles competition. Do you know how backward that is for an Irishman? The Lions is a hark back to the days of the empire. It’s outdated.

It would but you have to look at financials of things as well.

sydthebeat · 09-03-2019 9:26pm

Have Georgia even beaten a six Nations team before?

The Lost Sheep · 09-03-2019 9:29pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Have Georgia even beaten a six Nations team before?

No. But only played any of the sides in six nations 13 times between all 6 countries in full tests.

thebaz · 09-03-2019 9:47pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Yes but it

Possibly would be a fairer indication but that they played them at all was something. Georgia need more tests against all 6 nations sides.

Possibly ??
be much different playing in Tbilisi , which can get quite intimadating - and Italys away record is so poor ;

Why is it something that Italy would play them -
Do Italy actually feal its beneath them to play them, when they are both at same level

6 Nations 2019 Build Up thread

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