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Legislation to make organ donations automatic

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    #542
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Unless you get off your arse, click 3 times on the site and opt out :rolleyes:

    You know the "government" dont get to keep your organs right? What does the "government" gain from this?

    You've seen the site?? Could you give us a link?? Or are you talking shite?? :rolleyes:


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    #543
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    if they dont care one way or another then why would they care if their organs were donated by default?

    If they felt strongly enough about donating they would carry a card. It's available online, in any pharmacy, library, doctors surgery and plenty of other places. You don't even have to bother looking up a website. They are available everywhere.


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    #544
    Bob Harris
    Registered Users Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭Bob Harris


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    which is?

    That euthanisia will in time become standard practice.
    There will be a huge ruccus of course but there will be a referendum and it will
    be available in certain circumstances within a generation.


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    #545
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,365 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Bob Harris wrote: »
    That euthanisia will in time become standard practice.
    There will be a huge ruccus of course but there will be a referendum and it will
    be available in certain circumstances within a generation.

    But why do you think euthanasia will become standard practice?


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    #546
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,365 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    If they felt strongly enough about donating they would carry a card. It's available online, in any pharmacy, library, doctors surgery and plenty of other places. You don't even have to bother looking up a website. They are available everywhere.

    well like you said some people dont care one way or another.


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    #547
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,488 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    You've seen the site?? Could you give us a link?? Or are you talking shite?? :rolleyes:

    I'm going by the Welsh one whichis 3 clicks, maybe the Irish one will be 4 or 5 clicks and they may be too strenuous for some of you?

    For the ones against organ donation (not that many if any will admit this) would you still be against this option if it was your child/mother/father/sibling who required an organ?


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    #548
    Candamir
    Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Anyone who cares enough to carry an "organ donation opt in" card will be opted in. Those who don't care enough to do that, obviously don't care one way or the other.

    Fixed that for you.

    It’s not that simple. Lots of suitable donors are lost every year, even though they may have wanted to donate.
    It’s a very difficult time for families, and often the hospital staff don’t want yo compound their grief (as they see it) by having to bring up the subject of organ donation. In the bigger transplant centres its less of a problem as they will have transplant coordinators on site who are used to dealing with the situation.
    The idea of opt out is to make asking the question a normal part of dying and removing the stigma that’s there.
    People who have strong feelings against organ donation can opt out, and next of kin can still refuse. There’s nothing compulsory about it. But in time we may have a society that sees organ donation as the norm, and the hundreds of patients waiting to die on donor lists can have a reasonable expectation of a chance at living.


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    #549
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    I'm going by the Welsh one whichis 3 clicks, maybe the Irish one will be 4 or 5 clicks and they may be too strenuous for some of you?

    For the ones against organ donation (not that many if any will admit this) would you still be against this option if it was your child/mother/father/sibling who required an organ?

    The f*** they would, they’d expect the government tondo something. The same government that can’t be trusted.


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    #550
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,488 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Bob Harris wrote: »
    That euthanisia will in time become standard practice.
    There will be a huge ruccus of course but there will be a referendum and it will
    be available in certain circumstances within a generation.

    What's you issue with this?


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    #551
    Bob Harris
    Registered Users Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭Bob Harris


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    But why do you think euthanasia will become standard practice?

    Public demand - people want the right to die when through illness etc they no longer have the will to live. Anyone I know of my generation express this wish.

    The government initally will pretend to be appalled but it is a great way to save money on health and pensions.

    Personally if I was in a position where the thought of death was more appealing than the reality of living due to pain/immobility/distress etc I would like to be able to choose my own destiny.

    I would also give advance authorisation that were I in an advanced stage of dementia etc where I couldn't decide or think rationally for myself to be euthanised.

    So on the one hand we have the government obliging people to donate organs to prolong life while on the other in time they will allow people to end their life prematurely in a dignified way. I don't think they are mutually exclusive concepts at all by the way, simply the desire to improve the quality of life when that is possible and the desire to end your life when there is no quality of life no any chance of ever improving it. That goes for the person and their families.


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    #552
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    I'm going by the Welsh one whichis 3 clicks, maybe the Irish one will be 4 or 5 clicks and they may be too strenuous for some of you?

    For the ones against organ donation (not that many if any will admit this) would you still be against this option if it was your child/mother/father/sibling who required an organ?

    We are talking about Ireland buddy. :rolleyes:


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    #553
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Candamir wrote: »
    It’s not that simple. Lots of suitable donors are lost every year, even though they may have wanted to donate.
    It’s a very difficult time for families, and often the hospital staff don’t want yo compound their grief (as they see it) by having to bring up the subject of organ donation. In the bigger transplant centres its less of a problem as they will have transplant coordinators on site who are used to dealing with the situation.
    The idea of opt out is to make asking the question a normal part of dying and removing the stigma that’s there.
    People who have strong feelings against organ donation can opt out, and next of kin can still refuse. There’s nothing compulsory about it. But in time we may have a society that sees organ donation as the norm, and the hundreds of patients waiting to die on donor lists can have a reasonable expectation of a chance at living.

    They still have to ask the question of the family. If they wanted to donate they'd carry a card. As I said it's simple to get. I even seen them on the counter in my local shop about 20 minutes ago. No need to go online or register/unregister from a database. Simple.


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    #554
    Candamir
    Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    We are talking about Ireland buddy. :rolleyes:

    The legislation hasn’t been enacted here - there’s hardly going to be a website up and running! But you know that already.


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    #555
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,488 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    We are talking about Ireland buddy. :rolleyes:

    Well look at you getting a gold star for effort :rolleyes:

    Do you think that because its going to be an Irish site that it will be a 4 hour process to opt out?


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    #556
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Candamir wrote: »
    The legislation hasn’t been enacted here - there’s hardly going to be a website up and running! But you know that already.

    I know the website isn't set up yet, hence my questioning of the poster who claimed it only too 3 clicks to opt out. :rolleyes:


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    #557
    Candamir
    Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    They still have to ask the question of the family. If they wanted to donate they'd carry a card. As I said it's simple to get. I even seen them on the counter in my local shop about 20 minutes ago. No need to go online or register/unregister from a database. Simple.

    Yes they do, but the culture will change.
    We’ve been trying the opt in system for decades with limited success. The opt out system has worked in other countries, so I think it’s worth giving it a go here, rather than doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.


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    #558
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Well look at you getting a gold star for effort :rolleyes:

    Do you think that because its going to be an Irish site that it will be a 4 hour process to opt out?

    No one has any idea what the Irish site will look like, will work like, will be needed to opt out.


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    #559
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Candamir wrote: »
    Yes they do, but the culture will change.
    We’ve been trying the opt in system for decades with limited success. The opt out system has worked in other countries, so I think it’s worth giving it a go here, rather than doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

    Ah well if you think its worth it, lets do it.


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    #560
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,488 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    No one has any idea what the Irish site will look like, will work like, will be needed to opt out.

    Fvckwittery of the lowest order :rolleyes:


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    #561
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    You'll all be sorry when Simon Harris is nibbling on your liver


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    #562
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Hal3000 wrote: »
    Sorry I prefer my politican's to lead by example. Sorry about that.

    If your politicians stick a gram of coke up their arses every day, would you follow suit? In other words, do you follow everything your politicians do? That's not very sensible.
    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Consent cannot be presumed. It's pathetic the govt talking about consent and colleges giving classes on consent, but then deciding consent about something so personal for the masses. Reeks of do as I say, not as I do.

    This isn't a sexual assault case so please leave that consent crap at the door.
    Hal3000 wrote: »
    When our Health Minister shows proof that he's also choosing to donate his organs on passing then I'll do it. Until then, I'm out !

    You will only opt in if one very specific person does it? Do you have some sort of organ donation pact with the minister? That's really odd, how did that conversation come about? Would love to hear your story.
    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Yeah it something similar happened in the 1950's in childrens homes with Alpha/Beta trials for medicines and Vaccines. I am sure there were one or two negative reactions and the organs were taken for examination. The Government were compensated for the trials. I see no difference to how they treat animals on a farm, rear 'em, fatten 'em and flog them to death.

    So you think all these organ are given like when you hand in stuff to the Charity shop?

    There's some really mental shít being spouted in this thread. I think overexposure to the internet and media is certainly a modern day problem we are overlooking.

    In your worst case scenario, in your head, what do you think is going to happen with the organs? What is the worst thing that could happen and why would that matter to a dead person?

    Comments like "Your organs are now only on loan from the government." are just so cynical and immature. Senseless really.


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    #563
    Former Observer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 474 ✭✭Former Observer


    I will be opting out of this. Could be that one organ or another has an undetected function for transmission of spirit to extra dimensions. But sure they'll be swimming in organs by that stage so no matter.


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    #564
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    I find it unsettling and extremely creepy that someone would use my organs after my death.


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    #565
    Former Observer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 474 ✭✭Former Observer


    stefanovich wrote: »
    I find it unsettling and extremely creepy that someone would use my organs after my death.

    It would be creepier if they were using their organ after you were dead.


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    #566
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,370 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Former Observer wrote: »
    I will be opting out of this. Could be that one organ or another has an undetected function for transmission of spirit to extra dimensions. But sure they'll be swimming in organs by that stage so no matter.

    Are you serious?

    So what if you burn to death and that organ gets destroyed. You don't get to go to the afterlife?

    If you believe in an afterlife, surely it would count as a negative mark against your soul that you refused to allow your organs to be used to save another persons life, or restore sight to a blind person....

    This pascals wager thing always assumes there are only two options, what if the true way to transmit your spirit to an extra dimension is to be as generous and loving during your life as possible?


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    #567
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,488 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    stefanovich wrote: »
    I find it unsettling and extremely creepy that someone would use my organs after my death.

    And yet if you were told tomorrow that you or a loved one needed an organ you would soon change your tune.


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    #568
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    And yet if you were told tomorrow that you or a loved one needed an organ you would soon change your tune.

    Probably true. I'm just being honest.


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    #569
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,370 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    stefanovich wrote: »
    I find it unsettling and extremely creepy that someone would use my organs after my death.

    I find it unsettling and creepy that I'll be eaten by insects after I die.

    I find it reassuring and uplifting that after i die, when my organs are no longer of any use to me, that they might save the life of someone else


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    #570
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,965 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Yeah the thought of someone getting to come off long term dialysis or someone who would have died from heart/lung failure getting another 10 years of life. So unsettling and creepy :rolleyes:


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    #571
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Akrasia wrote: »
    I find it unsettling and creepy that I'll be eaten by insects after I die.

    I find it reassuring and uplifting that after i die, when my organs are no longer of any use to me, that they might save the life of someone else

    So for once my procrastination and an inaction may be a good thing!


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