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Legislation to make organ donations automatic

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    #452
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    seamus wrote: »
    The vast majority of abortions occur several months before organs even exist.
    The rest are aborted due to the existence of life-limiting deformities/diseases and thus the probability of organ donation is very, very small.

    In any case, the protocol will be the same as it would be for a child or infant; the parents would be asked what they want to do next.

    Stem cells? are more valuable than gold. Why do you think Centercor are here in Ireland?


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    #453
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    You have an awful hatred for the health service.

    I wonder why?
    Blood Tribunal, Haemophilia clotting and AIDS, hepatitis tests with in the HSE, Avian flu vaccine, Swine flu Vaccine, HPV vaccine, State of mental health service, Super bugs, hired doctors not being able to pass a basic english test after being hired, Radiologists x-raying children 4 times in a row, wastage of HSE funds ...... cripes. Tests carried out on children in state care. Its not a health service ..... its clown college and they are coming out with honours degrees.


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    #454
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    lan wrote: »
    As has been repeatedly pointed out, that didn't happen in our country. All sorts of ****e happens in other countries, including the illegal sale of organs and probably well beyond, but it doesn't happen here, and certainly not by a government agency.

    You don't have a shred of evidence of corruption within the allocation system in Ireland, so stop spouting your misleading paranoid delusions.

    I love our Irish high moral superiority and delusions of grandure.
    "This sort of thing doesnt happen here"
    "We wouldnt do that to our own kind".
    It goes on alright.
    Bank corruption doesnt go on
    Sports stars dont dope.
    Our Doctors and nurses never cut our womens wombs (Re: Michael Neary and the 3 doctors who vindicated him and the nurses who covered it up)
    Charities and Unions dont pilfer their own funds and dues.

    The stuff that goes on in other countries and goes on everywhere else goes on here. We are no more "holier than thou than any other country".


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    #455
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    stefanovich wrote: »
    How do we know what's to be done with said organs? Will the government be selling them for export?

    Wouldnt be the first time....... looks that way to me from this distance. There is never an action without equal and opposite reaction. Just basic physics.


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    #456
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    batgoat wrote: »
    I'm sure you can provide proof of organs being sold in the hse...

    There is proof of movement of organs out of the country, where is the proof of equal organs entering the country?


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    #457
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Succubus_ wrote: »
    Regarding alcoholics, they have to prove that they haven't been drinking for a certain period of time to qualify for a transplant, there is very strict criteria that needs to be met. I think George Best did relapse after his transplant but I assume he had to show that he hadn't been drinking for a period of time before it, nobody wants to waste organs.

    You "think" he had a relapse? He was tabloid fodder for 18 months. Binge drinking and slapping Alex around.

    Would you take "Professional" responsiblity for that liver? Would you risk your medical licence, professional insurance and employees jobs? Not to mention what the Liver could have been used for. I dont see alcoholism as a disease as more of a personal abuse of responsibility. Or would you just take the money and be a good establishment old boy?

    I am a practitioner and I wouldnt expose risk my profession, insurance or practice to **** bags like him. I can see them coming a mile off.


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    #458
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Hpv vaccines again... Oh scooter, take that fear mongering nonsense to some vaccine conspiracies thread tbh. You're reducing this entire thread to a conspiracy and don't seem to care about the numerous people who need transplants who would be more likely to get one as a result of the system.


    There's nothing nefarious about this.


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    #459
    lan
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭lan


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    I love our Irish high moral superiority and delusions of grandure.
    "This sort of thing doesnt happen here"
    "We wouldnt do that to our own kind".
    It goes on alright.
    Bank corruption doesnt go on
    Sports stars dont dope.
    Our Doctors and nurses never cut our womens wombs (Re: Michael Neary and the 3 doctors who vindicated him and the nurses who covered it up)
    Charities and Unions dont pilfer their own funds and dues.

    The stuff that goes on in other countries and goes on everywhere else goes on here. We are no more "holier than thou than any other country".

    I didn’t (and wouldn’t) claim any of those things don’t happen here, stop putting words in my mouth.

    I only spoke about our organ allocation system and nothing else.
    I am a practitioner and I wouldnt expose risk my profession, insurance or practice to **** bags like him. I can see them coming a mile off.

    Are you saying you’re actually a doctor!?


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    #460
    uptherebels
    Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    Corbin Eager Duckling wrote: »
    For people saying you shouldn't be eligible for a donation if you opt out.

    I would plan to opt out because I'm ineligible to donate blood or organs because of medical issues and I wouldn't want someone getting my diseased organs accidently in case a mistake was made. Should I not be eligible for a blood or organ donation if I needed one? I'd love to donate blood, I used to, but I'm not allowed now. I also was registered as an organ donor in the UK when I lived there, but I don't carry a card here. Reason because in the UK you could pick which organs you were happy to donate on the online database. If my organs were good enough I'd give everything but my eyes.

    There is a difference between can't and won't


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    #461
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    lan wrote: »
    I didn’t (and wouldn’t) claim any of those things don’t happen here, stop putting words in my mouth.

    I only spoke about our organ allocation system and nothing else.

    Are you saying you’re actually a doctor!?

    Stop putting words in my mouth, sound familiar. I am not a doctor (nor ever claimed to be) but I do need a professional insurance to practice my trade. I have never been sued (but side stepped a few headcases who I knew loved going to court), however you will find a list of complaints and ever doctor has at least 4 serious complaints of negligence in their careers.


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    #462
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,488 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Stop putting words in my mouth, sound familiar. I am not a doctor (nor ever claimed to be) but I do need a professional insurance to practice my trade. I have never been sued (but side stepped a few headcases who I knew loved going to court), however you will find a list of complaints and ever doctor has at least 4 serious complaints of negligence in their careers.

    Love to see your evidence for this claim please?


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    #463
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Love to see your evidence for this claim please?

    Just hearsay around the dinner table at family get together. I have three cousins on 3 strikes, one on one and one who wont tell and "is in research". You do know that after the USA, Ireland per capita is the most likely place you will be sued for medical malpractice?


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    #464
    BeerWolf
    Registered Users Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭BeerWolf


    Wonder if those opting out get blacklisted elsewhere.


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    #465
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Just hearsay around the dinner table at family get together. I have three cousins on 3 strikes, one on one and one who wont tell and "is in research". You do know that after the USA, Ireland per capita is the most likely place you will be sued for medical malpractice?

    I'm imagining the number could be true of surgeons but that's mainly because they're a high risk profession. The claims still aren't generally successful. Doesn't actually mean they've committed malpractice. Eg I've had two surgeons, both had accusations against them but both cases failed in court as they hadn't actually committed malpractice.

    So ya, you should try going to the long term illnesses forum and start telling them how doctors are terrible in general in Ireland. They'll strongly disagree. Eg the condition I have has some best doctors around for it, in Ireland.


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    #466
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,913 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Wouldnt be the first time....... looks that way to me from this distance. There is never an action without equal and opposite reaction. Just basic physics.


    Wouldn't be the first time the government has sold organs? You have evidence of this?

    It also looks that way to you from a distance maybe because you have a tinfoil hat permanently glued to your head.

    Btw that physics analogy in this context is quite literally one of the stupidest things ive ever read on boards.


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    #467
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,488 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Just hearsay around the dinner table at family get together. I have three cousins on 3 strikes, one on one and one who wont tell and "is in research". You do know that after the USA, Ireland per capita is the most likely place you will be sued for medical malpractice?

    So no evidence for your ridiculous claim that "ever doctor has at least 4 serious complaints of negligence in their careers."

    And this sh/te is why i can't take anything y9u say seriously.


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    #468
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    batgoat wrote: »
    I'm imagining the number could be true of surgeons but that's mainly because they're a high risk profession. The claims still aren't generally successful. Doesn't actually mean they've committed malpractice. Eg I've had two surgeons, both had accusations against them but both cases failed in court as they hadn't actually committed malpractice.

    So ya, you should try going to the long term illnesses forum and start telling them how doctors are terrible in general in Ireland. They'll strongly disagree. Eg the condition I have has some best doctors around for it, in Ireland.

    How did the cases get to court without there being a complaint? The complaints that I have know to get that far and fail or do poorly are the ones where fellow colleagues claimed they recieved the files too late to review or werent able to testify. Remember Dr Michael Neary (Lady of Lourdes, removing womens uterus en masse scale?). He was vindicated of that. He moved all his monies offshore, burnt his files, Three of his buddies vindicated his decision and were struck off. He couldnt have gotten away with that for YEARS without senior management, nursing staff, lab staff and pathologists covering for him.

    One year the HSE hired 220 new hires and 19 of which failed a basic English course. I had a Doctor from North Africa who told me in October during the wettest week I had a mosquito bit when I had stage 1 Sarcoidosis. I have had a GP refuse to recognise a top psychologists report and told to stop wasting time and take my pills. I told the psychologist his report was refused, I dont know what was said but she was sweet as pie to me the next day even after I helped her correct all her spelling mistakes.

    These Doctors are milk fed. They have no experience of the outside world. They never work doing manual labour and spend their holidays dossing around Europe and the Americas. They have their own cliques and private grinds in school. They have college accommodation and every privilege afforded to them. God forbid we ask them to be accountable for their actions.


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    #469
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    So no evidence for your ridiculous claim that "ever doctor has at least 4 serious complaints of negligence in their careers."

    And this sh/te is why i can't take anything y9u say seriously.

    Neither can I take the word of a convict serious. Guess we got something in common.


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    #470
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Wouldn't be the first time the government has sold organs? You have evidence of this?

    It also looks that way to you from a distance maybe because you have a tinfoil hat permanently glued to your head.

    Btw that physics analogy in this context is quite literally one of the stupidest things ive ever read on boards.

    Yeah it something similar happened in the 1950's in childrens homes with Alpha/Beta trials for medicines and Vaccines. I am sure there were one or two negative reactions and the organs were taken for examination. The Government were compensated for the trials. I see no difference to how they treat animals on a farm, rear 'em, fatten 'em and flog them to death.

    So you think all these organ are given like when you hand in stuff to the Charity shop?


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    #471
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    How did the cases get to court without there being a complaint? The complaints that I have know to get that far and fail or do poorly are the ones where fellow colleagues claimed they recieved the files too late to review or werent able to testify. Remember Dr Michael Neary (Lady of Lourdes, removing womens uterus en masse scale?). He was vindicated of that. He moved all his monies offshore, burnt his files, Three of his buddies vindicated his decision and were struck off. He couldnt have gotten away with that for YEARS without senior management, nursing staff, lab staff and pathologists covering for him.

    One year the HSE hired 220 new hires and 19 of which failed a basic English course. I had a Doctor from North Africa who told me in October during the wettest week I had a mosquito bit when I had stage 1 Sarcoidosis. I have had a GP refuse to recognise a top psychologists report and told to stop wasting time and take my pills. I told the psychologist his report was refused, I dont know what was said but she was sweet as pie to me the next day even after I helped her correct all her spelling mistakes.

    These Doctors are milk fed. They have no experience of the outside world. They never work doing manual labour and spend their holidays dossing around Europe and the Americas. They have their own cliques and private grinds in school. They have college accommodation and every privilege afforded to them. God forbid we ask them to be accountable for their actions.

    A complaint does not equal malpractice. Eg loads will get to court but the complainant will lose the case. Honestly your overarching view of the profession is pretty unrepresentative.


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    #472
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    batgoat wrote: »
    A complaint does not equal malpractice. Eg loads will get to court but the complainant will lose the case. Honestly your overarching view of the profession is pretty unrepresentative.

    No it doesnt but isnt it alarming that these things are being brought to court. I dont find these things so sinister as in so much as they go to cover them up.


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    #473
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    No it doesnt but isnt it alarming that these things are being brought to court. I dont find these things so sinister as in so much as they go to cover them up.

    Why is that alarming? If anything it means we're actually putting doctors under greater scrutiny because of the role they serve.


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    #474
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    batgoat wrote: »
    Why is that alarming? If anything it means we're actually putting doctors under greater scrutiny because of the role they serve.

    Its called accountability. One young doctor advised a patient to bathe a skin cancer sore in milton fluid. It actually inflamed and accelerated the problem.
    That was settled out of court. The Doctor was found to be lying and covering it up but they couldnt find another doctor to give a report about it before the case. It was settled out of court for a fraction of the true settlement.

    These are going on the whole time. You just need to know where to ask and where to look. Very few make it to the broad sheet pages


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    #475
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,488 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Neither can I take the word of a convict serious. Guess we got something in common.

    What convict are you referring to? :confused:


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    #476
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Neither can I take the word of a convict serious. Guess we got something in common.

    Excuse me?


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    #477
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,913 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    You just need to know where to ask and where to look.


    That wouldnt happen to be here would it?


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    #478
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    batgoat wrote: »
    A complaint does not equal malpractice. Eg loads will get to court but the complainant will lose the case. Honestly your overarching view of the profession is pretty unrepresentative.

    So how does a complaint get as far as court? You need a solicitor who believes you and "an independent expert report prepared by a clinician of equal eminence in the relevant" (Thank you cousin).

    Therefore there is no such thing as a bogus medical malpractice case that actually gets as far as being filed in Court.


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    #479
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    So how does a complaint get as far as court? You need a solicitor who believes you and "an independent expert report prepared by a clinician of equal eminence in the relevant" (Thank you cousin).

    Therefore there is no such thing as a bogus medical malpractice case that actually gets as far as being filed in Court.
    So a failure to convict means a person is guilty of malpractice? It doesn't...


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    #480
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    batgoat wrote: »
    So a failure to convict means a person is guilty of malpractice? It doesn't...

    No, the case and often is settled out of court. A conviction would mean the insurance would rocket and 4 serious convictions doesnt mean you cant practice but the cost of practicing would be prohibitive. Like that German doctor they hired for Obstetrics who was hired despite having "problem with registration" in Germany. Happens more often than you think


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    #481
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,372 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    No, the case and often is settled out of court. A conviction would mean the insurance would rocket and 4 serious convictions doesnt mean you cant practice but the cost of practicing would be prohibitive. Like that German doctor they hired for Obstetrics who was hired despite having "problem with registration" in Germany. Happens more often than you think

    what the hell are you talking about convictions for? malpractice suits are civil cases not criminal


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