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Rowan Croft the gran torino

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    #1442
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    very very slim to both. the german workers party were anti-communist.
    Communist and Socialist are not the same thing .

    I’ m guessing that if you call your party the Nationalist Socialists that you are trying to attract Socialists:eek:


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    #1443
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,211 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    blinding wrote: »
    Communist and Socialist are not the same thing .

    I’ m guessing that if you call your party the Nationalist Socialists that you are trying to attract Socialists:eek:

    i'm sure your ignorance of history tells you plenty of things that are not true.


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    #1444
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    i'm sure your ignorance of history tells you plenty of things that are not true.
    If you have a Party with Socialist in the Title is it safe to assume you are trying to attract Socialists ?

    The were not called the National Anti-Socialist Party ;););)


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    #1445
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,211 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Thrashssacre wrote: »
    Didn’t Rowan have Ben scallon and Kevin sharkey on his channel? Can’t be much of an ethnonationalist either.

    no idea. did he? Scallon is part of Irexit so i'm sure he has a lot in common with the tan torino.


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    #1446
    Thrashssacre
    Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Thrashssacre


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    no idea. did he? Scallon is part of Irexit so i'm sure he has a lot in common with the tan torino.

    Well if you’re gonna call him an ethnonationalist then you should probably check what company he keeps otherwise you just sound silly, just seems like you’re trying to slap and evil word on him to discredit him. He does a good enough job of that on his own.


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    #1447
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Walter Bishop wrote: »
    Any comment on Tan Torino saying it's ok to burn down hostels with immigrants in them?

    He never said that. He mentioned that the locals in Rosslare were saying that they were going to burn down the hotel and that he has no problem saying that before Leah Doherty throw the substance over him he never managed to even finish his sentence.


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    #1448
    Boom_Bap
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    Do you not ever get bored of trying to label each other?


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    #1449
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    blinding wrote: »
    Communist and Socialist are not the same thing .

    I’ m guessing that if you call your party the Nationalist Socialists that you are trying to attract Socialists:eek:

    Stop guessing and provide proof. You're coming across as incredibly uninformed.


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    #1450
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    batgoat wrote: »
    Stop guessing and provide proof. You're coming across as incredibly uninformed.
    Have a Google for yourself .

    https://www.google.com/search?ei=5jkfXdDXJIuegQbFqrDYCg&q=was+there+Socialists+in+the+Nationalist+Socialist+Party&oq=was+there+Socialists+in+the+Nationalist+Socialist+Party&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0..28877...0.0..0.0.0.......0......gws-wiz.vSJyjBcwbWE


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    #1451
    Former Observer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 474 ✭✭Former Observer


    Never really understood the fear that some socialists have of admitting that the National Socialist Party in Germany had many socialist values, especially at the beginning. I'm a socialist myself and it makes no odds to me to admit it. They were very much ahead of Britain and America in many respects. Their various crimes had nothing to do with socialism and everything to do with nationalism however.


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    #1452
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Former Observer wrote: »
    Never really understood the fear that some socialists have of admitting that the National Socialist Party in Germany had many socialist values, especially at the beginning. I'm a socialist myself and it makes no odds to me to admit it. They were very much ahead of Britain and America in many respects. Their various crimes had nothing to do with socialism and everything to do with nationalism however.
    Thank You For Your Honesty .


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    #1453
    Il Fascista
    Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭Il Fascista


    Former Observer wrote: »
    Never really understood the fear that some socialists have of admitting that the National Socialist Party in Germany had many socialist values, especially at the beginning. I'm a socialist myself and it makes no odds to me to admit it. They were very much ahead of Britain and America in many respects. Their various crimes had nothing to do with socialism and everything to do with nationalism however.

    There was even a video doing the rounds, which I can't find now, where some guy was reading pro Socialist statements from the Nazis to a bunch of college Marxists, who all agreed and cheered on the statements.


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    #1454
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Il Fascista wrote: »
    There was even a video doing the rounds, which I can't find now, where some guy was reading pro Socialist statements from the Nazis to a bunch of college Marxists, who all agreed and cheered on the statements.
    Hardly surprising .


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    #1455
    Walter Bishop
    Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Walter Bishop


    What a shame you can't find it now eh? I can't find a video that I definitely saw where some guy read a load of right wing tripe out to a cheering bunch of Proud Boys and Richard Spencer types, definitely saw it though so that's my point made :rolleyes:


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    #1456
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    blinding wrote: »
    Have a Google for yourself .

    https://www.google.com/search?ei=5jkfXdDXJIuegQbFqrDYCg&q=was+there+Socialists+in+the+Nationalist+Socialist+Party&oq=was+there+Socialists+in+the+Nationalist+Socialist+Party&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0..28877...0.0..0.0.0.......0......gws-wiz.vSJyjBcwbWE
    Your own search results in numerous links on why they weren't Socialists... Here's one from snopes.

    https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/09/05/were-nazis-socialists/


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    #1457
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Definitely some left wing features to German Economic policy but Fasci Italli di combattimento was probably more along the lines of socialism.

    Mussolini was very influenced by his father, a member of the Italian Socialist Party. He was actually named after Mexican Socialist leader Benito Juarez.


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    #1458
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    For all those who are unaware of the fact that political parties' names have very little to do with their actual policies have a look at Brazilian politics. The current President's party is called the Social Liberal Party. The name has nothing to do with his policies. He is one of the most far right political leaders on the planet.

    Just read some books rather than the Twitter feeds of semi literate right wing reactionaries.


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    #1459
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,927 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Thrashssacre wrote: »
    How so? It’s a bit of stretch Gemma is a loon radicalized by the loss of her job and husband. Rowan is a chancer our for a few quid. Justin while being the most fitting of far right out of this group I wouldn’t quite class him as a nazi and micheal McGrath come off it now you’re having a laugh.....

    Come off it.

    Its well documented Michael McGrath has fascist and Nazi links

    https://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/26034


    484495.jpg

    And Barrett too

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/neo-nazis-affirm-links-with-youth-defence-1.1098966?mode=amp

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #1460
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Come off it.

    Its well documented Michael McGrath has fascist and Nazi links

    Must confess, I thought you were talking about the FF TD which is why I thought it was a bit of a head scratcher.


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    #1461
    pablohoney87
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭pablohoney87


    Il Fascista wrote: »
    There was even a video doing the rounds, which I can't find now, where some guy was reading pro Socialist statements from the Nazis to a bunch of college Marxists, who all agreed and cheered on the statements.

    Sounds like Dinesh D'Souzas straw manning of the Democrats in America.

    Unless you can actually provide the video your claim is worthless.


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    #1462
    Townton
    Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭Townton


    pablohoney87 wrote: »
    Sounds like Dinesh D'Souzas straw manning of the Democrats in America.

    Unless you can actually provide the video your claim is worthless.

    In fairness he didn't need to straw man them. The history speaks for itself. The thing that is unfortunate these days is that people are so ideologically alined they can't accept past historical facts when it makes their side look bad. Just accept the history and then argue off the present and how and why things are different. In the age of the Internet trying to white wash history and say things like the national socialist party weren't socialist or that the Democrats in the 1860s and prior weren't pro slavery is stupidity of the highest order especially when the contradicting facts are at the tips of everyones fingers these days.


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    #1463
    pablohoney87
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭pablohoney87


    Townton wrote: »
    In fairness he didn't need to straw man them. The history speaks for itself. The thing that is unfortunate these days is that people are so ideologically alined they can't accept past historical facts when it makes their side look bad. Just accept the history and then argue off the present and how and why things are different. In the age of the Internet trying to white wash history and say things like the national socialist party weren't socialist or that the Democrats in the 1860s and prior weren't pro slavery is stupidity of the highest order especially when the contradicting facts are at the tips of everyones fingers these days.

    Seriously you have some genuine research to do.

    The nazi party were anti marxists and anti communist. Now I'm not conflating socialism with these but there is no denying they are bedfellows.

    The party before the night of long knives were only socialists in the sense that they had the trade unions on their side. A label a socialist does not make.

    Nobody denies the Democrats have slavery in the roots of their party. What's more interesting is how the Republicans deny the "southern strategy" ever really happened.


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    #1464
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    pablohoney87 wrote: »
    Seriously you have some genuine research to do.

    The nazi party were anti marxists and anti communist. Now I'm not conflating socialism with these but there is no denying they are bedfellows.

    The party before the night of long knives were only socialists in the sense that they had the trade unions on their side. A label a socialist does not make.

    Nobody denies the Democrats have slavery in the roots of their party. What's more interesting is how the Republicans deny the "southern strategy" ever really happened.
    So their Roots were in the German Workers Party and they were at least in the Early Days trying to attract Socialists . Why else would they have Socialists in their Title ?

    Nazis ; Nationalist Socialist Workers Party . Why does their Roots have to be Denied ?


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    #1465
    pablohoney87
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭pablohoney87


    blinding wrote: »
    So their Roots were in the German Workers Party and they were at least in the Early Days they were trying to attract Socialists . Why else would they have Socialists in their Title .

    Nazis ; Nationalist Socialist Workers Party . Why does their Roots have to be Denied ?

    Question has been asked and answered a number of times.

    Why is balsonaro part of the social liberal party?

    If you dont understand the dynamics of politics and trade unions outside of a single party state like USSR or China, once again you have some serious reading to do before you should be involving yourself in these conversations.

    By your logic the Tory party were called as such in an effort to attract criminals to the party.


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    #1466
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    pablohoney87 wrote: »
    Question has been asked and answered a number of times.

    Why is balsonaro part of the social liberal party?

    If you dont understand the dynamics of politics and trade unions outside of a single party state like USSR or China, once again you have some serious reading to do before you should be involving yourself in these conversations.

    By your logic the Tory party were called as such in an effort to attract criminals to the party.
    Was the Nazi Party's Roots in the German Workers Party ? = Yes .

    Is its likely that in the early days that they were trying to attract Socialists by having Socialist in the title of the Nationalist Socialist Workers Party ? = Yes .

    Why does the Roots of the Nazi Party have to be denied ? No One denies that they were neither representatives of Socialists or Workers as they moved on . Why deny their Roots ?


  • Options
    #1467
    pablohoney87
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭pablohoney87


    blinding wrote: »
    Was the Nazi Party's Roots in the German Workers Party ? = Yes .

    Is its likely that in the early days that they were trying to attract Socialists by having Socialist in the title of the Nationalist Socialist Workers Party ? = Yes .

    Why does the Roots of the Nazi Party have to be denied ? No One denies that they were neither representatives of Socialists or Workers as they moved on . Why deny their Roots ?

    Once more. Asked and answered.

    You are using a hefty dose of speculation. Were the Tories originally named as such to attract criminals?

    Actually. I'll bite since you seem to have zero interest in actually reading up on anything yourself.

    The German Workers Party you are so dearly hanging on to show the socialist roots was actually The German Free Workers party. That word you conveniently leave out is very important as historically Communism has been associated with a lack of freedom.

    It was set up directly to oppose Marxism and was hyper nationalist from its outset. It never had socialist roots nor attempted to recruit socialists. It was the workers party because of its attachment to trade unions.

    If that makes you a socialist I guess the entire mafia in the USA are socialists.


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    #1468
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    pablohoney87 wrote: »
    Once more. Asked and answered.

    You are using a hefty dose of speculation. Were the Tories originally named as such to attract criminals?
    Well Politicians , So yes .


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    #1469
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    pablohoney87 wrote: »
    Once more. Asked and answered.

    You are using a hefty dose of speculation. Were the Tories originally named as such to attract criminals?
    Done a bit of research they . The Tory's Roots were in a Faction of the Whigs and they went on to be called Conservatives .

    They don’t deny their Roots as far as I know .


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    #1470
    pablohoney87
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭pablohoney87


    blinding wrote: »
    Done a bit of research they . The Tory's Roots were in a Faction of the Whigs and they went on to be called Conservatives .

    They don’t deny their Roots as far as I know .

    By your logic it means they were named as such to attract criminals.

    I've never heard them admit that so they clearly are denying their roots


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    #1471
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,211 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    pablohoney87 wrote: »
    Once more. Asked and answered.

    You are using a hefty dose of speculation. Were the Tories originally named as such to attract criminals?

    Actually. I'll bite since you seem to have zero interest in actually reading up on anything yourself.

    The German Workers Party you are so dearly hanging on to show the socialist roots was actually The German Free Workers party. That word you conveniently leave out is very important as historically Communism has been associated with a lack of freedom.

    It was set up directly to oppose Marxism and was hyper nationalist from its outset. It never had socialist roots nor attempted to recruit socialists. It was the workers party because of its attachment to trade unions.

    If that makes you a socialist I guess the entire mafia in the USA are socialists.

    I told them all that already but they are immune to new information.


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