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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

Shane Ross' new speeding penalties

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    #452
    Pythagorean
    Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭Pythagorean


    It all boils down to this ; 1. County councillors groupthink that there should be a lower speed limit on a particular stretch of road 2. the lower speed limit has drivers champing at the bit, because they know it is safe to drive faster. 3. The speed vans then set up, ok, they are not for profit, but they are getting substantial government funding, so they must justify their existence. 4. Minister for Transport then attempts to turn the screw even tighter.


    Logical result ; more government funding for speed cameras.


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    #453
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,535 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Off the top of my head? Around three.


    Please do make sure to look those three in the eye over the Christmas festivities and let them know that they are disposable for you.

    Pythagorean wrote: »
    It all boils down to this ; 1. County councillors groupthink that there should be a lower speed limit on a particular stretch of road 2. the lower speed limit has drivers champing at the bit, because they know it is safe to drive faster. 3. The speed vans then set up, ok, they are not for profit, but they are getting substantial government funding, so they must justify their existence. 4. Minister for Transport then attempts to turn the screw even tighter.


    Logical result ; more government funding for speed cameras.


    Yeah, it could be that all right. Or else it could be a measure to reduce road deaths by reducing speed on the road.

    doolox wrote: »
    This is why you need a broad representative body to review and adjudicate the practicality and effectiveness of proposed laws.


    We have that body - it's called Dáil Eireann.

    doolox wrote: »
    If you have more people off the road for overstrict application of speeding laws by robot vans you will have more people on the dole or out of a job costing the society more in SW costs and doing no actual good towards safety.
    People might even panic and crash when confronted by being pursued by a cop for a marginal excess of speed. Others will be disqualified for small amounts over the limit.
    It is just mindblowing how creative people can get when coming up with excuses for continuing to break the law.



    If only there was some easy solution that people could choose to avoid all the problems - like not breaking the speed limit.
    Bruthal wrote: »
    Would you back a speed limit of 20kph on all roads?

    I suppose you would have to, if not prepared to lose family members based on the speed risk.
    Is that what it's going to take to stop people being killed on the road?


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    #454
    demanufactured
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭demanufactured


    He can shove his speed limits up his hole.
    I was done last week by a sneaky van hidden around a bend.
    89kmph in an 80 zone.

    KUNTS


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    #455
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    They're never sneaky when you're not speeding. I notice less and less giving a warning flash these days too so maybe a lot of people are finally copping on you'd hope.


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    #456
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    demanufactured wrote: »
    He can shove his speed limits up his hole.
    I was done last week by a sneaky van hidden around a bend.
    89kmph in an 80 zone.

    KUNTS

    I've done plenty of giving out about speed vans, but around a bend sounds exactly where they should be setting up. It's the ones sitting on straight stretches of road that do my head in.


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    #457
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Please do make sure to look those three in the eye over the Christmas festivities and let them know that they are disposable for you.
    Christ you clearly went high end private for your sense of humour removal operation. The holier than thou transplant was also a resounding success. In the past we were only exposed to this kind of linear "it's de law!!" thinking in impotent if self important letters to the Times, now we have the interwebs. God help us all.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #458
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Sienna Black Sacrifice wrote: »
    No it isn’t, speed is a total scapegoat and has nothing to do with the vast majority of crashes. The RSA are totally obsessed with speed and people who don’t understand things very much believe them.
    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Would you like to post details of your qualifications and research in this area, just so I can compare them with the qualifications and expertise of just about every other expert in the field who came to the opposite conclusion to you?

    As previously mentioned in this thread I have a BSc in this area and came to a similar conclusion in relation to motorways in a road safety thesis. I found the proportion of accidents on high speed roads to be very significantly lower than on low speed roads. Yes, there are more low speed roads than motorways, so it's not a perfect measurement and the detail didn't extend to traffic counts at the time as the data wasn't as available. But the motorways carry infinitely more traffic.

    In my qualified opinion, a direct inference of that is that speed alone, on roads with higher limits which have similar segregation of obstacles and VRUs from moving traffic, have a significantly lower propensity for accidents caused by speed or speed alone.
    Other factors are more weighted in causing the accident and must also be present (e.g. a driver blocks Lane 3, so an impatient driver undertakes in Lane 1, doesn't see the truck merging... you get my drift).


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    #459
    btkm8unsl0w5r4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,538 ✭✭✭btkm8unsl0w5r4


    Dont be coming here with your facts and figures...this is about feelings and outrage


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    #460
    mgn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    Patww79 wrote: »
    They're never sneaky when you're not speeding. I notice less and less giving a warning flash these days too so maybe a lot of people are finally copping on you'd hope.

    I always flash when i see a speed van and when someone else flashes me i appreciate it.Some people spend a lot of time on the road and doesn't take long to get a few points.not because there always speeding but a simple thing like overtalking and the idiot your trying to pass puts the foot down because the see a straight road ahead after being stuck behind them for a half an hour.
    Its okay for the Sunday driver on here to think that Lord Ross idea is a good one.Trying doing 15- 20 thousand miles a year.then come back here an see what you think.


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    #461
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    mgn wrote: »
    I always flash when i see a speed van and when someone else flashes me i appreciate it.Some people spend a lot of time on the road and doesn't take long to get a few points.not because there always speeding but a simple thing like overtalking and the idiot your trying to pass puts the foot down because the see a straight road ahead after being stuck behind them for a half an hour.
    Its okay for the Sunday driver on here to think that Lord Ross idea is a good one.Trying doing 15- 20 thousand miles a year.then come back here an see what you think.

    I do 60 thousand a year and I think the same as I said above.

    So?


    _


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    #462
    mgn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    Patww79 wrote: »
    I do 60 thousand a year and I think the same as I said above.

    So?


    _

    You do 60 thousand a year and never broke the speed limit.Your talking s*it.


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    #463
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    mgn wrote: »
    You do 60 thousand a year and never broke the speed limit.Your talking s*it.

    I can't afford to.


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    #464
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    mgn wrote: »
    You do 60 thousand a year and never broke the speed limit.Your talking s*it.

    I did 30k in six months last year with work - stuck to the limit religiously. Cruise control makes it easy.
    Doesn't change my opinion that the limits are too low but it was no major hardship either.

    Four times even slightly over and no job. It's those with the long commutes who are most careful.

    Thankfully not doing as many km any more


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    #465
    mgn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    Patww79 wrote: »
    I can't afford to.

    Not many can.Whatever about the fine the points are the problem.It only gives the insurance companies an excuse to add on another few hundred on to your insurance.I always try to keep within the limits but there is times when you can be a small bit over.


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    #466
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Is that what it's going to take to stop people being killed on the road?

    Banning driving would be needed. We see many say "if it saves one life, its worth it"


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    #467
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    mgn wrote: »
    Not many can.Whatever about the fine the points are the problem.It only gives the insurance companies an excuse to add on another few hundred on to your insurance.I always try to keep within the limits but there is times when you can be a small bit over.

    I don't pay for the insurance so that end of it is grand (though they wouldn't be all that happy), but 12 points = no driving = no job. If you aim to never get the first three then I hope it'll have harder get the twelve.


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    #468
    mgn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    sdanseo wrote: »
    I did 30k in six months last year with work - stuck to the limit religiously. Cruise control makes it easy.
    Doesn't change my opinion that the limits are too low but it was no major hardship either.

    Four times even slightly over and no job. It's those with the long commutes who are most careful.

    Thankfully not doing as many km any more

    Cruise control makes it easy.i always use it on the motorway.But i bet not many that drives from Dublin on the N4/N5 to either Sligo or Mayo didn't break the limit on some occasion trying to pass some clown doing 60km or 70km.


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    #469
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    Is Ross doing anything to actually enforce these changes?
    Simple to sign a piece of paper. Financing the Gardaí is of far more significance.
    Can’t remember the last time I passed a Gardaí checkpoint or seen them on the road.
    Private speedvans (and the incentive to “hide and catch”) are likely to be more prevalent.


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    #470
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Shane Ross can go f*ck himself


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    #471
    swarlb
    Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭swarlb


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    Shane Ross can go f*ck himself

    The Irish hate being told what to do...
    They also love being praised and being told they are 'doing a good job'
    But most of all they hate being told what to do...
    Taxes are to be avoided at all costs...
    Any written warning sign is there simply to be ignored...
    Hard earned driving licences are meant to be left ANYWHERE except with the driver...
    If an Irish person sees an 80 kph sign, as far as they are concerned it really means 'anything above 80 within (what they think is) a reasonable amount...
    For some reason they also seem to think there is an 'allowance' that is considered to be ok 'above' any posted speed limit for the purpose of being caught.
    But most of all they really, really hate being told what to do..
    They'll evoke anything to get out of it.. from 800 years of oppression to 'The but we are Special' clause.
    I would guarantee that every Irish person who has left to live in the USA (for example) has stuck rigidly to posted speed limits, yet at home they feel somehow exempt.
    Apart from hating being told what to do, they even have more hatred for any figure of authority.
    Just get on with it, obey the posted speed limits, and incur no fines.
    It isn't rocket science....


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    #472
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    swarlb wrote: »
    The Irish hate being told what to do...
    They also love being praised and being told they are 'doing a good job'
    But most of all they hate being told what to do...
    Taxes are to be avoided at all costs...
    Any written warning sign is there simply to be ignored...
    Hard earned driving licences are meant to be left ANYWHERE except with the driver...
    If an Irish person sees an 80 kph sign, as far as they are concerned it really means 'anything above 80 within (what they think is) a reasonable amount...
    For some reason they also seem to think there is an 'allowance' that is considered to be ok 'above' any posted speed limit for the purpose of being caught.
    But most of all they really, really hate being told what to do..
    They'll evoke anything to get out of it.. from 800 years of oppression to 'The but we are Special' clause.
    I would guarantee that every Irish person who has left to live in the USA (for example) has stuck rigidly to posted speed limits, yet at home they feel somehow exempt.
    Apart from hating being told what to do, they even have more hatred for any figure of authority.
    Just get on with it, obey the posted speed limits, and incur no fines.
    It isn't rocket science....




    We are being told to do an awful lot more than we were 20 or 30 years ago. I'm just sh1t sick of the government encroachment at this stage. Every aspect of our lives has a law now and no sooner is it introduced and they're already thinking up a newer, stricter one. Shane Ross & friends and the EU can all take a long walk off a short pier as far as I'm concerned.


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    #473
    cdaly_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    sdanseo wrote: »
    As previously mentioned in this thread I have a BSc in this area and came to a similar conclusion in relation to motorways in a road safety thesis. I found the proportion of accidents on high speed roads to be very significantly lower than on low speed roads. Yes, there are more low speed roads than motorways, so it's not a perfect measurement and the detail didn't extend to traffic counts at the time as the data wasn't as available. But the motorways carry infinitely more traffic.

    In my qualified opinion, a direct inference of that is that speed alone, on roads with higher limits which have similar segregation of obstacles and VRUs from moving traffic, have a significantly lower propensity for accidents caused by speed or speed alone.
    Other factors are more weighted in causing the accident and must also be present (e.g. a driver blocks Lane 3, so an impatient driver undertakes in Lane 1, doesn't see the truck merging... you get my drift).

    In the course of your studies did you come across any evidence for or against the proposition that damage done in any incident increases as the speed involved increases?


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    #474
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    We are being told to do an awful lot more than we were 20 or 30 years ago. I'm just sh1t sick of the government encroachment at this stage. Every aspect of our lives has a law now and no sooner is it introduced and they're already thinking up a newer, stricter one. Shane Ross & friends and the EU can all take a long walk off a short pier as far as I'm concerned.

    It’s the punishment that may be changed, not the limits so the only people being encroached on are those breaking the law.


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    #475
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    amcalester wrote: »
    It’s the punishment that may be changed, not the limits so the only people being encroached on are those breaking the law.

    A ban etc for 1 kph over limit won't ever affect you no doubt.


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    #476
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,568 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Bruthal wrote: »
    A ban etc for 1 kph over limit won't ever affect you no doubt.

    Won’t affect anyone.


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    #477
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Bruthal wrote: »
    A ban etc for 1 kph over limit won't ever affect you no doubt.

    No one will be banned just for being 1 kph over the limit.


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    #478
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    swarlb wrote: »
    ...
    Hard earned driving licences are meant to be left ANYWHERE except with the driver...
    Is there a link between that and safer driving?


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    #479
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    amcalester wrote: »
    No one will be banned just for being 1 kph over the limit.

    Point was, if there was a ban for that, some posters here would have no worry about it. As it would only affect those breaking the law.


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    #480
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Allinall wrote: »
    Won’t affect anyone.

    But it's breaking the law. But no punishment?


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    #481
    doolox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭doolox


    The more you concede the more these parasites will want. It is now time to kick back against the constant demands for more and stricter rules.

    We have enough rules as it is.

    People have got to go to work.

    Even if they were to reduce speed limits after working hours but this would screw up shift workers.

    You cannot have a situation where people on the margins of speed refractions are turfed out of their hard-won jobs to satisfy the ideological fetishes of a semi delinquent non party demagogue.

    I sincerely hope Ross comes last in the next election. If he dares go for re-election.


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