Shane Ross' new speeding penalties

koheim

Slave_no_more wrote: »

Hi Folks,
Just joined up today.
I can't help but compare us with the French; macron decides to put a few cents on the litre of Diesel and they've been out on the streets every week since protesting and wrecking the place, so much so that he has scrapped the increase and given them a pay rise.
here in Ireland we have a minister who decides to criminalize people who are doing 19mph over speed limit and give penalty points to anyone who forgets their license and no one is doing anything. What is wrong with us that we are such wimps? Maybe we deserve it we are such serfs?
When are motorists in Ireland going to stand up for themselves the way the French do?

Strange post, because in France they already have laws like Shane Ross is introducing in Ireland. http://english.controleradar.org/speeding-fines.php

Tax is a different opic...

Alun

koheim wrote: »

Strange post, because in France they already have laws like Shane Ross is introducing in Ireland. http://english.controleradar.org/speeding-fines.php

Yes, they do, but look at the details .. only 1 point for less than 20km/h over, 2 points for 20-30km/h over, etc. much more reasonable.

I have no problem with a graduated scale of fines, but the points per band on the current proposals are ridiculous.

OldMrBrennan83

Alun wrote: »

Yes, they do, but look at the details .. only 1 point for less than 20km/h over, 2 points for 20-30km/h over, etc. much more reasonable.

I have no problem with a graduated scale of fines, but the points per band on the current proposals are ridiculous.

If everyone stayed in the range for 0 points then it wouldn't matter if it was a hundred points for 20km/h over.

AndrewJRenko

sdanseo wrote: »

As previously mentioned in this thread I have a BSc in this area and came to a similar conclusion in relation to motorways in a road safety thesis. I found the proportion of accidents on high speed roads to be very significantly lower than on low speed roads. Yes, there are more low speed roads than motorways, so it's not a perfect measurement and the detail didn't extend to traffic counts at the time as the data wasn't as available. But the motorways carry infinitely more traffic.

In my qualified opinion, a direct inference of that is that speed alone, on roads with higher limits which have similar segregation of obstacles and VRUs from moving traffic, have a significantly lower propensity for accidents caused by speed or speed alone.
Other factors are more weighted in causing the accident and must also be present (e.g. a driver blocks Lane 3, so an impatient driver undertakes in Lane 1, doesn't see the truck merging... you get my drift).

To be fair, if you're still calling them 'accidents' instead of collisions, you're not an expert in the field.


But is your thesis relating to the roads where collisions take place, or the actual speed involved in those collisions?

mgn wrote: »

I always flash when i see a speed van and when someone else flashes me i appreciate it.Some people spend a lot of time on the road and doesn't take long to get a few points.not because there always speeding but a simple thing like overtalking and the idiot your trying to pass puts the foot down because the see a straight road ahead after being stuck behind them for a half an hour.

So that would be speeding then.

Bruthal wrote: »

Banning driving would be needed.

It's unusual to find someone with a lower opinion of the drivers of Ireland than me.

Pythagorean

Bruthal wrote: »

Banning driving would be needed. We see many say "if it saves one life, its worth it"

There was a piece in todays Indo which dragged out this old chestnut " if it only saves one life" etc. Here are a few proposals Mr Ross could consider which would easily achieve this objective;

1, Any cyclist not wearing proper safety gear 200 on the spot fine.

2.any pedestrian wearing headphones while crossing the road, ditto.

3.Ban all motorcycles.

4. while we're at it, sure why not double the price of fags and booze.

Then we'd see the yellow vests out

AndrewJRenko

Pythagorean wrote: »

There was a piece in todays Indo which dragged out this old chestnut " if it only saves one life" etc. Here are a few proposals Mr Ross could consider which would easily achieve this objective;

1, Any cyclist not wearing proper safety gear 200 on the spot fine.

2.any pedestrian wearing headphones while crossing the road, ditto.

Is there any evidence that shows that any of these issues have any impact on road deaths?


Anything comparable to the evidence that shows that speed is a significant factor in a significant number of road deaths?

Pythagorean

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Is there any evidence that shows that any of these issues have any impact on road deaths?


Anything comparable to the evidence that shows that speed is a significant factor in a significant number of road deaths?

Look at the figures for road fatalities in these categories... as regards fags and booze. well, that should be obvious. I'm being a bit tongue in cheek, obviously in suggesting these measures, but if this " if it only saves one life" mantra is taken to its logical conclusion, this is what could happen.

GreeBo

Bruthal wrote: »

It's not only people inside the car that are involved in accidents. And people outside it are far more likely in the 50 road.

And are far more likely to die if you are doing 60 in a 50 zone, aka speeding.

GreeBo

jhenno78 wrote: »

What about the person you hit?

The slower I'm traveling the better their chances, yet many here have an issue diving at the limit, confusing isn't it.

AndrewJRenko

Pythagorean wrote: »

Look at the figures for road fatalities in these categories... as regards fags and booze. well, that should be obvious. I'm being a bit tongue in cheek, obviously in suggesting these measures, but if this " if it only saves one life" mantra is taken to its logical conclusion, this is what could happen.

You need to go well beyond looking at the figures. You need to look at the causes of deaths. I've never seen any evidence that 'safety gear' for cyclists saves lives, or that pedestrians wearing headphones cause deaths.

flexcon

Bruthal wrote: »

Point was, if there was a ban for that, some posters here would have no worry about it. As it would only affect those breaking the law.

Thank you. was waiting for someone to pull up on that. Worded perfect.

I tried earlier on two people at what limit would they themselves say the law goes too far and they wouldn’t answer back on it. Just it’s the law attitude.

eagle eye

My lovely wife met a new friend and arranged for us to go out to dinner. After a while her husband told me what he did for a living, he was a clamper. I told my wife that I'd be at the bar when she was ready to leave. If this guy worked in a speed van I'd have done the same thing.
I don't mind a garda out with a gun but I despise these people.

AndrewJRenko

eagle eye wrote: »

My lovely wife met a new friend and arranged for us to go out to dinner. After a while her husband told me what he did for a living, he was a clamper. I told my wife that I'd be at the bar when she was ready to leave. If this guy worked in a speed van I'd have done the same thing.
I don't mind a garda out with a gun but I despise these people.

I'm not sure if you're old enough to remember Dublin before the clampers. Who ever got in earliest got the parking spots, and stayed their all day, shovelling 5p pieces into the meter.


The clampers allowed these parking spots to work as intended, good for parking for an hour or two, but not for all day.


I have the clampers on speed dial (01 602 2500, press 2) for reporting the chances who put their parking needs above the rest of the community. The new Devlin Hotel in Ranelagh is a current hotspot, where suppliers and punters frequently take the clearway out of action in rush hour, inconveniencing and endangering cyclists, slowing buses and others.



I'd have bought your man dinner in thanks.

Allinall

eagle eye wrote: »

My lovely wife met a new friend and arranged for us to go out to dinner. After a while her husband told me what he did for a living, he was a clamper. I told my wife that I'd be at the bar when she was ready to leave. If this guy worked in a speed van I'd have done the same thing.
I don't mind a garda out with a gun but I despise these people.

We’re you old enough to get served?

Teddy Daniels

eagle eye wrote: »

My lovely wife met a new friend and arranged for us to go out to dinner. After a while her husband told me what he did for a living, he was a clamper. I told my wife that I'd be at the bar when she was ready to leave. If this guy worked in a speed van I'd have done the same thing.
I don't mind a garda out with a gun but I despise these people.

Really ?

Ultimanemo

Probably he lives in a place with good public transport, if he is off the road he can use public transport, there are people who commute 50 to 100 km to work, when those people go off the road they go off the job and go on the dole

Bruthal

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I have the clampers on speed dial (01 602 2500, press 2) for reporting the chances who put their parking needs above the rest of the community.

It must be easy to spot them, crawling around at 20kph

amcalester

Ultimanemo wrote: »

Probably he lives in a place with good public transport, if he is off the road he can use public transport, there are people who commute 50 to 100 km to work, when those people go off the road they go off the job and go on the dole

Those people should probably not exceed the limit it then.

Ultimanemo

amcalester wrote: »

Those people should probably not exceed the limit it then.

Ok

Wibbs

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I have the clampers on speed dial (01 602 2500, press 2) .

This does not surprise me in the least. How curtain twitchy, small and petty can one person be to have clampers on speed dial? Jesus.

AndrewJRenko

Wibbs wrote: »

This does not surprise me in the least. How curtain twitchy, small and petty can one person be to have clampers on speed dial? Jesus.

So you think it's OK for businesses in Ranelagh and Rathmines to say FU to the community they draw their business from and routinely take deliveries in the bus lane, bike lane or clearway ?

Bruthal

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So you think it's OK for businesses in Ranelagh and Rathmines to say FU to the community they draw their business from and routinely take deliveries in the bus lane, bike lane or clearway ?

They will be ok now with renko cop about.

Pythagorean

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You need to go well beyond looking at the figures. You need to look at the causes of deaths. I've never seen any evidence that 'safety gear' for cyclists saves lives, or that pedestrians wearing headphones cause deaths.

Have you seen the Luas videos of pedestrians wandering in front of trams? Have you ever driven on an unlit road and suddenly encountered a cyclist with no lights, reflective gear, etc,. As regards evidence, it is impossible to say whether safety gear has saved lives, but definitely the absence of it is a real hazard.

Eric Cartman

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So you think it's OK for businesses in Ranelagh and Rathmines to say FU to the community they draw their business from and routinely take deliveries in the bus lane, bike lane or clearway ?

Yes, there are not enough loading bays , health and safety rules and equipment required to move produce long distances arent available and the city is constantly eliminating parking. Baggot street at the shelbourne end is reduced from two lanes to one every morning between 9-11 while all the restaurants and pubs have drinks, produce and supplies delivered to them by an array of trucks forced to mount the kerb and use double yellows because there is simply nowhere within 100 meters of those premises to pull over thats not obstructing traffic

Bruthal

GreeBo wrote: »

And are far more likely to die if you are doing 60 in a 50 zone, aka speeding.

Be careful you dont get confused between people arguing against speeding penalties, and arguing against the proposals here.

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

And are far more likely to die if you are doing 60 in a 50 zone, aka speeding.

If they stayed off the road it wouldn’t matter what speed the car was going, it’s no wonder pedestrians get hit the way a lot of them behave.

John_Rambo

Pythagorean wrote: »

Have you seen the Luas videos of pedestrians wandering in front of trams? Have you ever driven on an unlit road and suddenly encountered a cyclist with no lights, reflective gear, etc,. As regards evidence, it is impossible to say whether safety gear has saved lives, but definitely the absence of it is a real hazard.

Fair point. Seeing that cyclists caused less that 10%, pedestrians just over 33% and car drivers caused over 50% of LUAS crashes and emergency braking, what extra safety gear do you think car drivers need?


Better lights?
More training?
Yearly testing?
High vis paint?



There's clearly a country wide issue here with drivers causing accidents that needs to be addressed.

4ensic15

There is a lot of bad driving and it has nothing to do with speeding. lane-hopping, overtaking on the inside, not stopping on yellow boxes or behind white lines. I would be in facvour of persistent offenders being towed to a public place and the vehicle smashed with sledge hammers in front of them. The second time it should be by any member of the public who has a rock to throw at the vehicle.

mgn

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You need to go well beyond looking at the figures. You need to look at the causes of deaths. I've never seen any evidence that 'safety gear' for cyclists saves lives, or that pedestrians wearing headphones cause deaths.

I never seen and evidence of motorist driving up on footpaths killing people or trying to run over cyclist or pedestrians in the dark.

mgn

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So you think it's OK for businesses in Ranelagh and Rathmines to say FU to the community they draw their business from and routinely take deliveries in the bus lane, bike lane or clearway ?

If the didn't elect the cyclist loving anti motorist to the council you might not have that problem.The have Dublin destroyed with one way systems and bus lanes.The won't be happy until the have every business in city closed.