Why I am leaving Ireland in 2019

Mr. teddywinkles

Captain Chaos wrote: »

On the Last Word last night they said it was 47k.

If that's the average wage, what's the average job role that everyone is in. I'd love to know that.

Lots and lots of overtime.

Geuze

Captain Chaos wrote: »

On the Last Word last night they said it was 47k.

If that's the average wage, what's the average job role that everyone is in. I'd love to know that.

https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/earnings/


Average earnings 2017 for full-time workers = 46,402

See here:
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elca/earningsandlabourcostsannualdata2017/

Note this includes overtime and bonuses, it is not the average basic pay.

Geuze

Alun wrote: »

The distribution of salaries/wages is not a symmetrical bell curve, so the average isn't a very helpful figure. The median wage, i.e. the wage most people are earning, will be somewhat less than the average.

Yes.

Median earnings are less than the mean 46k.

Median earnings maybe 40k for FT workers, don't have the figures to hand.

misstearheus

'Murricka to live the dream. Oz to work. Ireland to......

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

misstearheus wrote: »

'Murricka to live the dream. Oz to work. Ireland to......

.... get pissed off about living in Ireland?

holystungun9

Alana Yummy Cub wrote: »

Hilarious. Sharia law and blatant labour rights violations?

And don't forget the 20% Stamp (on your head) duty!

manonboard

Deleted User wrote: »

When our fertility rates are below replacement levels where is this natural increase going to come from?

This information suggests your perspective is not accurate.

Growth rate 1.77%
Birth rate 13.7 births/1,000 population
Death rate 6.5 deaths/1,000 population
Life expectancy 80.19 years

Demographics of the Republic of Ireland - Wikipedia

manonboard

manonboard wrote: »

This information suggests your perspective is not accurate.

Growth rate 1.77%
Birth rate 13.7 births/1,000 population
Death rate 6.5 deaths/1,000 population
Life expectancy 80.19 years

Demographics of the Republic of Ireland - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Republic_of_Ireland#Total_fertility_rate

Idbatterim

Fair play to you op. The place is an off the wall kip. Middle to high income earners hammered to pay for the legions of wasters that the spineless politicians bend over backwards for. If I were younger and without attachments here, I’d be out of here in a flash...

The country is totally incapable of running itself... the lpt is a token charge. Vat at 23 % is quite high. It’s the marginal rate of tax that I find idiotic , it’s totally anti enterprise and employment...

I’ve said this many times , living standards are significantly reduced for workers , to pay for the off the wall welfare and perks state primarily. In other countries where you pay “high tax” you get a lot back, here? Earn fifty k etc and you are rich, earn a ****ty income and it’s acyyslly rules you out of qualifying for anything free ...

AllForIt

Standard of living doesn't just concern personal income. It applies to the environment you live in. There is little point if having tonnes of disposable income if your environment is squalid. The environment we live in here in Ireland is quite good. It was much worse in the 70's/80's where there were for example lots of squalid housing estates in Dublin inner city and in various places around Ireland. Those places don't exist anymore.

McGiver

Geuze wrote:

We pay 38% tax on our GNI* income.

That figure is comparable to Netherlands and not far from Germany. You get hell loads of free stuff and proper governance in these countries.

In Ireland you get almost nothing in return:
1. Failing hospitals
2. Schools outsourced to the church
3. University need tuition fees
4. Infrastructure is a joke or missing and where isn't it's damn expensive
5. Generally poor governance

McGiver

Cina wrote:

The op and others on here seem to be using the Nordics, Switzerland, and Germany as examples of better countries than ours. Well, yeah, maybe they are, maybe they do things better than us, but they have their issues too. Nitpicking the 4-5 best countries in the world to live in as a brush to beat Ireland with is silly.

Not maybe but for sure they do many things better.

First you say Ireland is the best country in the world, metrics etc and then you say the top countries in Europe are not a good benchmark to use. That's totally contradictory.

Obviously, au contraire these countries are exactly the kind of benchmark Irish public should demand to be used to benchmark the country otherwise progress on core issues is unlikely. If these countries are used as the benchmark then the wonderful PR of how great progressive country Ireland is quickly fades away into mediocrity. Because in reality it's an average country with quite a few serious gaps.

Now, in reality, talking about metrics - when is going the Republic going to become a real secular Republic and fully separate the Church from the State?

PauloMN

Tax take too low from lower paid workers and welfare payments too high. Until both of those change, Ireland will just continue to struggle to provide health, housing and education to its people. Ireland has a staggeringly low tax take from low paid workers.



Take something like HAP - essentially a top up payment from the state so that people who really cannot afford to rent in a certain area with their income are able to do so. These payments coming out of the tax pot, going straight into the private rental market, thus increasing prices across the board. Effectively you can have two people - one on €40k and one on €20k + HAP - living the same lifestyle, with the state effectively ensuring that a €20k job in Ireland really is a €40k job. Anyone with even the most basic economic sense can see this is totally unsustainable - yet our cycles of government and TDs getting votes off Joe and Mary ensures that more handouts are given out every budget.

It then becomes the norm. When I was in my early 20s, it was drilled into me to get an education, get a job and make sure you can look after yourself, make progress, work extra hours if needs be etc.. There was simply no notion of state top ups. Social welfare was for when you were in desperate times, the last resort etc.. One look at the sort of stuff on RTE like "This Crowded House" etc. has made me realise that the ideals I was brought up with are long gone. State dependency is becoming the norm now, the expectation of twenty-somethings who want to be within a few miles of mammy.

Peter Flynt

Ireland is a complete and utter expensive kip.

Blaizes

Very expensive, creche fees,a visit to the doctor, car insurance to name but a few, a very few

rn

I'm going to disagree with op sentiment.

In general Ireland has a very progressive and transparent taxation system. I think that I disagree that those on low incomes pay 0 income tax and that highest earners still have some very limited loop holes. In general those who can afford to pay more, do. I do disagree with how property tax is calculated, however I'm not against it as a concept on principle. I don't like that we have three income tax types. I'd prefer if we brought up paye tax and just got rid of usc in one revenue neutral move.

We have very good consumption taxation system. It's right that we have such high taxes on oil consumption and we need to look at increasing these in the short term. It's right that we have such high taxes on cigarettes and alcohol. They are luxuries that have a negative impact on society.

On asset tax, it's good that we have inheritance tax and CGT/Cat. There are significant bands in inheritance tax. This helps redistribute wealth across generations. I disagree with DIRT tax on principle and especially when interest rates are historically so low. It's nearly impossible to encourage ppl to save as it is... This needs to be looked at as we're spending a lot of what we could individually be saving. Collectively it's not good.

But over all our tax system is fair.

Idbatterim

“Our taxation system is fair” I’m assuming you’re one of the vast majority not being hammered by income tax at the marginal rate?

Has Margaret cash and co collected their welfare bonus yet ? You know what the Christmas bonus is in the uk? Ten pounds, yes, ten pounds. If you don’t have it , don’t spend it!

stateofflux

rn wrote: »

I'm going to disagree with op sentiment.

In general Ireland has a very progressive and transparent taxation system. I think that I disagree that those on low incomes pay 0 income tax and that highest earners still have some very limited loop holes. In general those who can afford to pay more, do. I do disagree with how property tax is calculated, however I'm not against it as a concept on principle. I don't like that we have three income tax types. I'd prefer if we brought up paye tax and just got rid of usc in one revenue neutral move.

We have very good consumption taxation system. It's right that we have such high taxes on oil consumption and we need to look at increasing these in the short term. It's right that we have such high taxes on cigarettes and alcohol. They are luxuries that have a negative impact on society.

On asset tax, it's good that we have inheritance tax and CGT/Cat. There are significant bands in inheritance tax. This helps redistribute wealth across generations. I disagree with DIRT tax on principle and especially when interest rates are historically so low. It's nearly impossible to encourage ppl to save as it is... This needs to be looked at as we're spending a lot of what we could individually be saving. Collectively it's not good.

But over all our tax system is fair.

Statistically you are wrong. when all stealth taxes & related services charges are factored in along with income tax bands Ireland is one of the most taxed countries in Europe..

In terms of proportionality i think you have a point but i disagree with you on transparency.

The differential is obvious when comparing Gross income to disposable income

cnocbui

The OP wrote the post I have often felt like writing. I'm off too. Fed up with with taxation regime here, followed by the weather as a close second.

incentsitive

I can't read all the above but the best alternative to Ireland is Qatar is the best laugh I've heard all day.

Personally I enjoy not having to have Dept of Foreign Affairs permission to leave the country, and freedom to move money internationally as I choose, but hey each to their own.

Lived abroad for a good few years, back home a couple of years ago, happy. Far away hills are always green.

I don't envy the OP though - given his trouble with English grammar, I can't fathom how he'll learn Arabic....

But good luck anyway and let us know how you get on, hopefully the state haven't blocked access to Boards.ie like they have to other stuff over there.

OEP

McGiver wrote: »

That figure is comparable to Netherlands and not far from Germany. You get hell loads of free stuff and proper governance in these countries.

In Ireland you get almost nothing in return:
1. Failing hospitals
2. Schools outsourced to the church
3. University need tuition fees
4. Infrastructure is a joke or missing and where isn't it's damn expensive
5. Generally poor governance

We can definitely, and need to, improve on a lot of things here. A lot of the reason why things are the way they are in Ireland is because of our national psyche - which is what also makes it a more interesting a fun place to live, for me anyway. Have you ever spent a lot of time in Germany, the Netherlands or Scandinavia? They rigidly follow the rules, and don't dare break them. And that goes down to the smallest little things like crossing a road. That drives me crazy, and I couldn't live in a place like that.

Given this country's history, we have a tendency to bend/break rules. This is both detrimental to the country and part of why people from other countries like us - and I'm not sure what you do about that. I certainly don't want to go the way of the Nordics, Germany, Netherlands where life is that bit more sterile. If we can improve things without losing our slightly more free attitude then this will be a much better country.

Thomas_IV

theguzman wrote: »

I have decided to pack my bags in 2019 and leave Ireland, hopefully permanently.

The reason I am leaving is I no longer want to live in such regressive society where I am taxed into the ground. There is no incentive to do anything properly in the way I would like to do it.

Overall combined taxation rates are close to 80% and we don't get any useful public services.

....

This post is good enough to put off everyone who considers to emigrate to Ireland and not leaving it as you say. Thanks for all the informations provided as it gives a very good oversight on taxation in Ireland which, depending on what one is obliged to pay (car, home etc.), is really depressing.

I wish you good luck in finding a new home and settle in there, wherever that might be.

ArrBee

Stan27 wrote: »

I moved to Australia in 2017. Great country but I’ll always move home to Ireland

Ahhhh... still in the honeymoon phase!

ArrBee

OEP wrote: »

Given this country's history, we have a tendency to bend/break rules. This is both detrimental to the country and part of why people from other countries like us - and I'm not sure what you do about that. I certainly don't want to go the way of the Nordics, Germany, Netherlands where life is that bit more sterile. If we can improve things without losing our slightly more free attitude then this will be a much better country.

Pretty much spot on IMO.

I find myself conflicted in how I view things in Ireland for that reason.
On the one hand you are more free to do as you please, but then everyone else is at it too so you need to be comfortable with others "doing the wrong thing".

Geuze

stateofflux wrote: »

Statistically you are wrong. when all stealth taxes & related services charges are factored in along with income tax bands Ireland is one of the most taxed countries in Europe..

This is false.

Overall taxes are not high in Ireland.

They are about average, compared to other EU countries.

High compared to the USA, yes.

Now, the top marginal tax rate [MTR] starts way too low at 35k approx, that is crazy, yes.

Cina

McGiver wrote: »

Not maybe but for sure they do many things better.

First you say Ireland is the best country in the world, metrics etc and then you say the top countries in Europe are not a good benchmark to use. That's totally contradictory.

I did not say that. I suggest actually reading my post before claiming I'm being contradictory.

Geuze

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Ireland is a complete and utter expensive kip.

The price level is too high, yes.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Comparative_price_levels_of_consumer_goods_and_services


In 2017, the price level for HFCE was 125.4, compared to the EU average.

Geuze

Blaizes wrote: »

Very expensive, creche fees,a visit to the doctor, car insurance to name but a few, a very few

Yes, the price level is too high, relative to incomes.

irishguitarlad

OP I don't know about moving abroad just for financial reasons. I think there has to be something else to the country as well. I live in Spain and there's no way in hell I'm going to be mega bucks rich than if I was living in a place like Qatar. Qatar might be grand in the short term but long term would be seriously boring I would imagine.

Igotadose

Love living in Ireland having moved here 5 years ago. Had looked into Australia at the time, too, it was our first choice but no chance at a job there and hence no opportunity. Biggest thing Australia had over Ireland was lots of empty space, could live somewhere without too many people around or having to deal with them. Ireland's fine as a second choice and once you get past the weather (which you'll complain about everywhere you live, though here it seems like it's the national pastime), it's great.