Why I am leaving Ireland in 2019

igCorcaigh

con___manx1 wrote: »

its not the lower and the higher earners that are suffering most its the people in the middle.

It's easy to move from middle to lower income bracket. I wonder why people don't do it?

Geuze

yesto24 wrote: »

I am not saying you are wrong but you facts about our tax is selective and misleading

Vat is 23% and that is very high but not everything is at that rate. Most of our food is 0%

Income tax rates are as you say but you left out the tax credits everyone gets.

Fuel taxes are crazy and carbon taxes are just a con.

Stamp duty is not really that high. Look up what is was about 5 years ago.
For non residential property that just a cost of doing business and adds to the final price the customer pays.

LPT is incredibly small by any other proper countries standard. Check what they pay in the USA, UK or Canada. Of course there it funds local government and services, here into the one big pot.

USC gets a bit high on higher incomes. I would be in favour of a flat % on all income. No exemptions, you earn anything you pay some USC.

VRT is high. But you are not going to win on this one. You see cars are evil. Not so evil that we get rid of them but evil enough to tax them loads.

Inheritance tax you forgot about the first 300 and something thousand exempt for inheritance between children and parents.

We do get a poor return for the taxes we pay but we do not pay as much as you imply in your post. Where did you get the 80% from.

You are right that there is a very large portion of our population who pay zero or close to zero tax.

A reasonable post.

Note that LPT is directly paid to local councils, it does not "go into one big pot".

Note that fuel taxes and carbon taxes are far more sensible than 50% marginal income tax rates.

triggermortis

Sugar Free wrote: »

OP I agree with some of your sentiment but I'd urge you to consider all aspects of life in the country you move to. For example, I live in a country considered to be low tax versus Ireland. I can take public transport with no restrictions covering about a fifth of the country for ~70e a month. In many circumstances I can sell assets without paying any CGT. I can pass on and inherit assets tax free (varies by state) to/from immediate family with no upper threshold.

However, you have to pay mandatory health insurance premiums, which for most people are 200-300e per month regardless of whether you need to avail of any healthcare. And you still have a deductible you need to reach before you can claim anything back. It is extremely rare for employers to cover this unlike in Ireland where every global company worth it's salt gives you a good policy.

You also have to pay a wealth tax when your net wealth is >70,000e (varies by state). Renting in the principal city makes Dublin rent look like postively good value and purchasing property suitable as a family home within 10km of said city centre is unattainable for almost everyone who isn't in investment banking or pharma. The cost of 5 days a week childcare is ~2200E a month. Per child. No discounts.

So my point is be careful what you wish for! Ireland's income and CGT/CAT system is a bit dysfunctional but most countries that weren't built in the middle of a desert will find other ways to get you, even if their taxation looks great from the outside looking in.

Sounds like you're in Switzerland.

theguzman

con___manx1 wrote: »

its not the lower and the higher earners that are suffering most its the people in the middle.

This, I myself would not even regard myself as middle class, so called lower and welfare class people actually have a better life, affordable subsidized housing, a fixed income of welfare, effective welfare security if you could call it that. I had a check engine light in my car today and I was literally praying it would be something small so I wouldn't have another big bill before Christmas. The middle class is decimated, every day there is something new to hammer them.

theguzman

theguzman wrote: »

Lets say you are paying 40% Income Tax, whatever you spend in your life is taxed at 23%, VAT, plus a whole host of all other taxes along the way of your life any savings has DIRT, then when you come to die and bequeath whatever you saved or had in property it all to whoever it will be taxed at 33%.

If over the course of your life everything was accounted for you will find the tax burden is damn well over 70% and heading towards 80%. And this is not accounting for all the other costs because of inept Governance in Ireland such as effective Double medical taxation where Private Health Insurance is necessary, Cartel Car Insurance Providers; What is happening is a total and utter disgrace.

If you manage to gather €1m over your life (realistically more) the state will get their hands on far too much of it.

you are literally just adding all the taxes you can think of together

its ridiculous but at least youll be no great loss to the accounting, economics or finance markets here anyway

enjoy...wherever

manutd2007

theguzman wrote: »

I'm a serious person, getting scuttered drunk is not something I do, the two last times I went to a pub was to take part in a quiz or for pub grub. I have traveled extensively around the world and actively avoid Irish people due their toxic relationship with Alcohol, my partner is not Irish and I have a different viewpoint to alot of Irish people on many things. Mediocrity is celebrated here whilst success is vilified.

you sound like good craic don't go please agree with you on the money issues, also don't take life too serious your too uptight I can tell by this outburst, chill out you'll be dead soon enough.

Geuze

theguzman wrote: »

This, I myself would not even regard myself as middle class, so called lower and welfare class people actually have a better life, affordable subsidized housing, a fixed income of welfare, effective welfare security if you could call it that. I had a check engine light in my car today and I was literally praying it would be something small so I wouldn't have another big bill before Christmas. The middle class is decimated, every day there is something new to hammer them.

The problem is:

high property costs
high medical costs
high legal fees
high insurance costs
high energy costs

What's to blame is cartels and protected professions.

yesto24

Geuze wrote: »

A reasonable post.

Note that LPT is directly paid to local councils, it does not "go into one big pot".

Note that fuel taxes and carbon taxes are far more sensible than 50% marginal income tax rates.

You would think that and that is what we were told. But it's not the case.
First off not all of the LPT paid to the local council stays with the council a good % of it goes to the have nots counties a sort of tax equilization. And second (I was told this by a Dublin City Council engineer I was working for) because DCC got so much money from the LPT other funds they would have gotten from the National government was cut.
Same result.

Fuel taxes I don't know about would have to look at it more.

Carbon taxes are just a con. An excuse to tax us more for no return.

igCorcaigh

Geuze wrote: »

The problem is:

high property costs
high medical costs
high legal fees
high insurance costs
high energy costs

What's to blame is cartels and protected professions.

Totally agree. Dysfunctional markets and vested state/class interests.

theguzman

You could nearly pave the roads in Goldleaf or run a highspeed rail to Donegal if the taxes on Transportation were ringfenced for Public Transport.

VAT on top of Fuel Duty, Motor Tax, VRT with VAT on top of that, Road Tolls, Various Taxes and Levies on Insurance Policies. High insurance costs because of Government inaction and vested interests.

igCorcaigh

theguzman wrote: »

You could nearly pave the roads in Goldleaf or run a highspeed rail to Donegal if the taxes on Transportation were ringfenced for Public Transport.

VAT on top of Fuel Duty, Motor Tax, VRT with VAT on top of that, Road Tolls, Various Taxes and Levies on Insurance Policies. High insurance costs because of Government inaction and vested interests.

Yeah. We do need more ringfenced tax, with visibility, and proper funding of local authorities.

theguzman

theguzman wrote: »

You could nearly pave the roads in Goldleaf or run a highspeed rail to Donegal if the taxes on Transportation were ringfenced for Public Transport.

VAT on top of Fuel Duty, Motor Tax, VRT with VAT on top of that, Road Tolls, Various Taxes and Levies on Insurance Policies. High insurance costs because of Government inaction and vested interests.

why are you not responding to any of the posts pointing out that you are wrong, factually very wrong, about all of your figures?

con___manx1

igCorcaigh wrote: »

It's easy to move from middle to lower income bracket. I wonder why people don't do it?

its easier now to move from the lower to middle than it ever has been. there is **** all of a difference between say someone on 24000 and 37 a few grand after the ****in tax man.

igCorcaigh

con___manx1 wrote: »

its easier now to move from the lower to middle than it ever has been. there is **** all of a difference between say someone on 24000 and 37 a few grand after the ****in tax man.

I agree. Both are bad wages though.
My bf works damn hard as a chef in a busy kitchen, takes home 400 and something a week.

USC takes a large chunk. ****ey regressive tax.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Geuze wrote: »

The problem is:

high property costs
high medical costs
high legal fees
high insurance costs
high energy costs

What's to blame is cartels and protected professions.the electorate for voting for and tolerating it.

FYP.

igCorcaigh

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

FYP.

Sensible as old boots, our electorate are.
We need a decent left of centre opposition.
This is Labour's fault.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Sensible as old boots, our electorate are.
We need a decent left of centre opposition.
This is Labour's fault.

I know. The opposition's fault for FORCING you to vote for a party you KNOW are corrupt and going to **** you over, right?

Austria!

theguzman wrote: »

Income tax is 20% on the first €43,550, 40% on earnings above this.

Thinly veiled "I have a spouse" thread.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Austria! wrote: »

Thinly veiled "I have a spouse" thread.

What? Spouse? That's not fair. If he gets a spouse, I want one too.

j8wk2feszrnpao

whisky_galore wrote: »

Classic cop-out line.
Because it's not great either in country (a), (b) or (c), we can't be arsed improving our lot. Learned helplessness.

Where did I state that we shouldn't be arsed?
Don't be so stupid. I just pointed out that it's not a unique situation for Ireland, and therefore not a simple solution otherwise it won't be replicated in other countries.

OldMrBrennan83

Left here once but never would again.

Edgware

Stanford wrote: »

Have you checked out less regressive tax countries or are you just venting?

He could always try Uranus

Cina

Every week there seems to be a new thread on boards moaning about our country. Honestly if a foreigner came on here and read these threads they'd probably think Ireland is some third world sh*thole.

The reality however couldn't be further from the truth. Ireland is one of the world's best countries to live in, just about every metric out there confirms that. People don't like to hear it because we're such an entitled "grass is greener" bunch who think "woe on us" for everything. Yes, Ireland is not perfect, not be a long shot, but I guarantee if these moaners spent time living in 90% of the world's other countries they wouldn't be complaining anymore.

The op and others on here seem to be using the Nordics, Switzerland, and Germany as examples of better countries than ours. Well, yeah, maybe they are, maybe they do things better than us, but they have their issues too. Nitpicking the 4-5 best countries in the world to live in as a brush to beat Ireland with is silly.

Edgware

Cina wrote: »

Every week there seems to be a new thread on boards moaning about our country. Honestly if a foreigner came on here and read these threads they'd probably think Ireland is some third world sh*thole.

The reality however couldn't be further from the truth. Ireland is one of the world's best countries to live in, just about every metric out there confirms that. People don't like to hear it because we're such an entitled "grass is greener" bunch who think "woe on us" for everything. Yes, Ireland is not perfect, not be a long shot, but I guarantee if these moaners spent time living in 90% of the world's other countries they wouldn't be complaining anymore.

The op and others on here seem to be using the Nordics, Switzerland, and Germany as examples of better countries than ours. Well, yeah, maybe they are, maybe they do things better than us, but they have their issues too. Nitpicking the 4-5 best countries in the world to live in as a brush to beat Ireland with is silly.

Most of these posters idea of a move is going from Mammys front room to the back room

TomSweeney

theguzman wrote: »

...
CAT Inheritance tax is 33% So imagine you go through life and pay all these taxes and maybe save money and then you reach a point where you want to hand it over to your children or appointed heir, the state will then come along and take 33% of it off you, this is money which was prevsiouly taxed already.

...

This really really makes my blood boil, just pure criminal mafia stealing scum the government are.

RickFlash

The Inheritance Tax is a shambles. As OP said, it gives nobody incentive to do well. A true pity.

But even with all that crap, it's still home and Qatar would be a huge culture shock to move to. They have strict social laws that our government thankfully don't agree with.

Keyzer

theguzman wrote: »

You will work all your life in Ireland, possibly have children or not, but if you want to give whatever you saved to your heir they will pay 33%, in the US and other countries they would pay zero.

Perhaps you should do some more research before you sail off into the sunset:

Ireland CAT
CAT tax free threshold is €320,000 (increased from €310,000 in Budget 2019 ). This applies to your children and parents. The Inheritance Tax charged will be 33% on anything above €320,000.

UK
CAT tax free threshold is £325,000. The Inheritance Tax charged will be 40%
on anything above £325,000.

Geuze

igCorcaigh wrote: »

USC takes a large chunk. ****ey regressive tax.

Note that USC is a progressive tax, as the effective rate increases as income increases.

OEP

RickFlash wrote: »

The Inheritance Tax is a shambles. As OP said, it gives nobody incentive to do well. A true pity.

But even with all that crap, it's still home and Qatar would be a huge culture shock to move to. They have strict social laws that our government thankfully don't agree with.

How doesn't it give you an incentive to do well? You don't get taxed on it, your children do when you die! So you get to enjoy your hard earned money while you're alive. By not taxing inheritance, the lottery of birth basically decides your future wealth, more so than it does already.

Geuze

TomSweeney wrote: »

This really really makes my blood boil, just pure criminal mafia stealing scum the government are.

I'm interested in these very emotional responses to CAT.

Of many taxes, CAT in particular seems be evoke a very strong response from people.

Of course, most people in Ireland don't know what CAT is, and will never pay it, as any gift or inheritance they receive will be below the threshold.