Why I am leaving Ireland in 2019

Geuze

theguzman wrote: »

You will work all your life in Ireland, possibly have children or not, but if you want to give whatever you saved to your heir they will pay 33%, in the US and other countries they would pay zero.

There are CAT exemptions in Ireland

Parents to children is exempt up to 320k per child.

So most children pay zero CAT on inheritance.

j8wk2feszrnpao

KevinCavan wrote: »

Housing is the the biggest issue here at the moment.

Not a situation unique to Ireland. I have work colleges in Germany and the UK; major issues there as well (probably reflected in any economy that suffered the housing bust).

Richard Hillman

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Are they really though, overall?

For some people, you are probably right, but for many in the lower or subsidised income brackets, living standards have improved greatly. We live in a more equal society than years gone by. Which does mean standards have fallen for some, but that is a good thing, and a price worth paying.

I disagree. If you're on a low wage you're living standards have dropped. Income tax drops have been miniscule. Whereas the likes of rent, public transport costs and the sneaky taxes have been rising.

With minimum wage rates rising too, full time workers generally used to get 39hours. It's very rare to see that now. You're lucky to get 37.5hrs now and I have been seeing lots of jobs ranging from 30-35 hours.

When you look at the last budget specifically, if you're on €10ph with 37.5hrs contract, the budget gave you €3 per year. €12ph gets you €24 per year. €15ph gets you €37 per year. Those increases alone are wiped out by public transport increases and that's before general price inflation.

And you fancy a can of coke during your lunch break, you'll be paying more for that. Fancy a couple of cans of beer at the end of the week, that'll cost you.

I would imagine it was probably a similar story the previous year re miniscule tax breaks and cost of living.

Geuze

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Living standards are plummeting. .

Where?

Not in Ireland.

theguzman

Geuze wrote: »

There are CAT exemptions in Ireland

Parents to children is exempt up to 320k per child.

So most children pay zero CAT on inheritance.

€320k is really not a lot of money or wealth in terms or property nowadays and Inheritance tax should be got rid of in all shapes and forms, of all the taxes I loath this is number one as it will directly hammer me very hard, and my children (future) also.

I don't know how anyone could defend the taxation of passing what you have to your loved one.

Geuze

theguzman wrote: »

Ireland has Nordic Taxation levels and developing country levels of public services.

Taxation is theft because you pay for nothing other than lies from corrupt politicians.

Ireland does not have Nordic levels of taxation.

For example, my parents pay <10% on 50k income, that is much lower than Nordic rates.

Geuze

theguzman wrote: »

€320k is really not a lot of money or wealth in terms or property nowadays and Inheritance tax should be got rid of in all shapes and forms, of all the taxes I loath this is number one as it will directly hammer me very hard, and my children (future) also.

It is a tax that gets people thinking and talking, yes.

The 33% rate is too high, in my opinion.

theguzman

Geuze wrote: »

Ireland does not have Nordic levels of taxation.

For example, my parents pay <10% on 50k income, that is much lower than Nordic rates.

If you combine every form of direct and indirect tax, plus other Government charges you will really be disgusted. Income tax is just one tax. I would actually speculate that you'd pay less in the Nordic Countries, but irregardless whatever you pay you are receiving something in return unlike here.

whisky_galore

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Not a situation unique to Ireland. I have work colleges in Germany and the UK; major issues there as well (probably reflected in any economy that suffered the housing bust).

Classic cop-out line.
Because it's not great either in country (a), (b) or (c), we can't be arsed improving our lot. Learned helplessness.

rossie1977

NIMAN wrote: »

But I'm sure if you put your mind to it, you could provide us with a list of negatives about Australia.

Cost of living is far higher in Australia than here for one.
Rent/house prices in Sydney/Melbourne higher than Dublin
Its 22 hours from Ireland minimum flying time so not somewhere out can just fly home for weekend
Full of nasties to a point you freak out over every spider you see thinking are going to kill you
Kangaroos don't follow rules of the road, locals even tell you speed up if you know you can't avoid one.

Geuze

theguzman wrote: »

Overall combined taxation rates are close to 80% and we don't get any useful public services.

There is many many more taxes which I haven't mentioned but the effective rate of tax is 80% and then you see people effectively working themselves into an early grave, busting their guts to keep the country moving for what?

There are many problems in Irish society, but let me state that taxes are not 80% of income.

Let me be totally clear and umambiguous here, taxes are not 80% of income.

OEP

theguzman wrote: »

€320k is really not a lot of money or wealth in terms or property nowadays and Inheritance tax should be got rid of in all shapes and forms, of all the taxes I loath this is number one as it will directly hammer me very hard, and my children (future) also.

I don't know how anyone could defend the taxation of passing what you have to your loved one.

Because you're going to have to pay tax on money you didn't earn, poor you. You complained earlier about people sitting on their arse getting the dole but you want to sit on your arse and inherit someone else's earned money? If you can't get by on €320k exemption, you've made a balls of your life somewhere and if you're inheriting more than that you clearly had a nice up bringing.

I think 33% is too high but without inheritance tax the money just accumulates with families where only the 1st generation actually has to do any work to earn it, the rest can just live off it. That's hardly a society that rewards working, which seems to be part of your original complaint.

igCorcaigh

Geuze wrote: »

There are many problems in Irish society, but let me state that taxes are not 80% of income.

Let me be totally clear and umambiguous here, taxes are not 80% of income.

My guess is OP is a relatively high earner who has calculated their extra income by leaving the country.

Fair enough. But there can be a loss that cannot be calculated too. Emigration is no longer for the desperate it seems.

Geuze

theguzman wrote: »

If you combine every form of direct and indirect tax, plus other Government charges you will really be disgusted. Income tax is just one tax. I would actually speculate that you'd pay less in the Nordic Countries, but irregardless whatever you pay you are receiving something in return unlike here.

I do this all the time, part of my job.

Total tax in 2017 = 68,568m

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/gfsa/governmentfinancestatisticsoctober2018/

Total income in Ireland = GDP = 294,110m

Tax as % of GDP = 23.3%, very low tax level

Now, GDP is not a good measure of Irish incomes, so we use GNI* instead = 181,182m

Tax as % of GNI* = 38%

Geuze

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/9409920/2-28112018-AP-EN.pdf/54409e5e-6800-4019-b7c1-580797a67001

Tax as % of GDP across the EU.

igCorcaigh

Geuze wrote: »

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/9409920/2-28112018-AP-EN.pdf/54409e5e-6800-4019-b7c1-580797a67001

Tax as % of GDP across the EU.

Wow...

speckled_park

Ireland is a grand country. You might need to go away to realise that. I worked in nz for 7 months , great experience, lovely people but the grass isnt always greener - low wages, poor housing standards, expensive fuel.

Wont get the same craic, drink, humour or gaa anywhere else.

yesto24

theguzman wrote: »

I have decided to pack my bags in 2019 and leave Ireland, hopefully permanently.

The reason I am leaving is I no longer want to live in such regressive society where I am taxed into the ground. There is no incentive to do anything properly in the way I would like to do it.

Overall combined taxation rates are close to 80% and we don't get any useful public services.

Some quick facts below

VAT is 23%

Income tax is 20% on the first €43,550, 40% on earnings above this.

Mineral Oil Tax on Petrol is 54.1% plus Carbon Tax of 4.5% + VAT @ 23%
Mineral Oil Tax on Diesel is 42.5% plus Carbon Tax of 5.3% + VAT @ 23%

Stamp Duty is 1% of Purchase Price on purchase of a home on the first 1 million, 2% after first million.

Stamp Duty is 6% on all non Residential Property, e.g. Farmland or Commerical Property.

Universal Service Charge

Rate Income Band
0.5% Up to €12,012
2.5% From €12,012.01 to €19,372.00
4.75% From €19,372.01 to €70,044.00
8% From €70,044.01 to €100,000.00
8% Any PAYE income over €100,000
11% Non-PAYE (Self-employed) income over €100,000

Local Property Tax if you own your own home varies with most people having €300 to €600 of a levy to pay, depending on the value of your home.

Vehicle Registration Tax variesbut generates billions for the state each year on new and second hand cars imported from the UK.

CAT Inheritance tax is 33% So imagine you go through life and pay all these taxes and maybe save money and then you reach a point where you want to hand it over to your children or appointed heir, the state will then come along and take 33% of it off you, this is money which was prevsiouly taxed already.

There is many many more taxes which I haven't mentioned but the effective rate of tax is 80%

I am not saying you are wrong but you facts about our tax is selective and misleading

Vat is 23% and that is very high but not everything is at that rate. Most of our food is 0%

Income tax rates are as you say but you left out the tax credits everyone gets.

Fuel taxes are crazy and carbon taxes are just a con.

Stamp duty is not really that high. Look up what is was about 5 years ago.
For non residential property that just a cost of doing business and adds to the final price the customer pays.

LPT is incredibly small by any other proper countries standard. Check what they pay in the USA, UK or Canada. Of course there it funds local government and services, here into the one big pot.

USC gets a bit high on higher incomes. I would be in favour of a flat % on all income. No exemptions, you earn anything you pay some USC.

VRT is high. But you are not going to win on this one. You see cars are evil. Not so evil that we get rid of them but evil enough to tax them loads.

Inheritance tax you forgot about the first 300 and something thousand exempt for inheritance between children and parents.

We do get a poor return for the taxes we pay but we do not pay as much as you imply in your post. Where did you get the 80% from.

You are right that there is a very large portion of our population who pay zero or close to zero tax.

theguzman

Geuze wrote: »

There are many problems in Irish society, but let me state that taxes are not 80% of income.

Let me be totally clear and umambiguous here, taxes are not 80% of income.

Lets say you are paying 40% Income Tax, whatever you spend in your life is taxed at 23%, VAT, plus a whole host of all other taxes along the way of your life any savings has DIRT, then when you come to die and bequeath whatever you saved or had in property it all to whoever it will be taxed at 33%.

If over the course of your life everything was accounted for you will find the tax burden is damn well over 70% and heading towards 80%. And this is not accounting for all the other costs because of inept Governance in Ireland such as effective Double medical taxation where Private Health Insurance is necessary, Cartel Car Insurance Providers; What is happening is a total and utter disgrace.

If you manage to gather €1m over your life (realistically more) the state will get their hands on far too much of it.

Geuze

theguzman wrote: »

Lets say you are paying 40% Income Tax, whatever you spend in your life is taxed at 23%, VAT, .

I spend 80-120 each week in the supermarket.

I pay maybe 5 in VAT.

Most foods are exempt from VAT.

Geuze

theguzman wrote: »

If you manage to gather €1m over your life (realistically more) the state will get their hands on far too much of it.

If taxes are so high, the State must be flush with funds?

Yet we have run a budget deficit each year for the past ten years?

orourkeda1977

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This will be unpopular but howandever...

It's hard to argue with the OP in many ways and some of the responses are just typical of people in this country - this unwavering blind allegiance to a country that in many ways is no better than some of the third world places we collectively like to look down on.

Yes we have a largely peaceful, politically stable (or I suppose you could also say stagnant) country with a generally liberal attitude to most things and those are certainly valuable and positive traits but there's so much else that is badly wrong too. This has become more evident in particularly the last few years with the lack of progress on key issues but the generally successful attempts to distract people with lots of easy-win social referenda instead.

There's the headline things like healthcare, tax, housing (whether it's too much or not enough) - all of which seem to be perpetually a problem that we never get meaningful traction on but there's more fundamental issues too... The parochial "me fein" attitudes that are only matched by the begrudgery and inability to accept anything or anyone that doesn't fit the Irish norms (all the "bye now" comments are evidence of that).

Add to that the half-assed "be grand" approach to pretty much everything (with predictable results) and people constantly trying to get one over on each other or "the man" (whether it be trying to get out of legitimate speeding tickets, or trying to find an angle to everything), and it's small wonder that things are the way they are really.
We get the politicians and system we deserve and it's unfortunately still a very accurate reflection of most of Irish society. We all give out about the latest political scandal or outrage but many privately admit that they'd do exactly the same things given half a chance, which is why it persists.

"Well if you don't like it, leave!" I hear all the indignant types shout. I've considered it in the past, but these days I have a child who I don't see enough as it is and I'm rapidly approaching my mid-40s so the chance has passed me by at this point anyway. That doesn't mean that I have to just accept that "it's how it is" though.

Could things be worse? Definitely, and a lot worse! But they could be a lot better too and to be fair we're only doing this "independence" stuff a hundred years and so we're still learning in many ways, but it would be great if we collectively started to objectively look at the flaws and the gaps and started to demand better of our society as a whole.

well f*ck off then

Mod-Banned

theguzman

Geuze wrote: »

I spend 80-120 each week in the supermarket.

I pay maybe 5 in VAT.

Most foods are exempt from VAT.

And so it should be , if you like an Alcoholic drink or even a Cigar or cigarettes again get ready to be hammered in Taxation.

Geuze

theguzman wrote: »

Lets say you are paying 40% Income Tax, .

Only very, very high earners pay 40% income tax.

Hundreds of thousands of earners pay 0% income tax here.

My parents pay less than 10% on 49-50k income.

I pay maybe 26-30% on an above average salary.

Water John

If you like an alcoholic drink in Quatar, you'll get hammered, full stop.

Geuze

theguzman wrote: »

And so it should be , if you like an Alcoholic drink or even a Cigar or cigarettes again get ready to be hammered in Taxation.

Yes, our alcohol and tobacco excise duties are high.

Let's take PRSI.

Ireland = 4%

USA = 7.65% FICA and Medicare

UK = 12%

Germany = 20% approx

theguzman

Geuze wrote: »

I do this all the time, part of my job.

Total tax in 2017 = 68,568m

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/gfsa/governmentfinancestatisticsoctober2018/

Total income in Ireland = GDP = 294,110m

Tax as % of GDP = 23.3%, very low tax level

Now, GDP is not a good measure of Irish incomes, so we use GNI* instead = 181,182m

Tax as % of GNI* = 38%

Our GDP is artificially inflated by Multinationals using it as tax haven, they pay very little if any taxes on these monies. Ordinary guys get hammered instead however.

con___manx1

its not the lower and the higher earners that are suffering most its the people in the middle.

Geuze

theguzman wrote: »

Our GDP is artificially inflated by Multinationals using it as tax haven, they pay very little if any taxes on these monies.

Indeed, MNC activity has distorted GDP, yes.

Which is why I used GNI* as well.

We pay 38% tax on our GNI* income.

pgj2015

theguzman wrote: »

I'm a serious person, getting scuttered drunk is not something I do, the two last times I went to a pub was to take part in a quiz or for pub grub. I have traveled extensively around the world and actively avoid Irish people due their toxic relationship with Alcohol, my partner is not Irish and I have a different viewpoint to alot of Irish people on many things. Mediocrity is celebrated here whilst success is vilified.

:rolleyes: the worst kind of Irish person, someone who is ashamed to be Irish and think they are better than other Irish people.