HSE No Longer Allowed to Refer to Patients as "Love" or "Dear"

dr.fuzzenstein

Mousewar wrote: »

Context is key. Trying to legislate manners is counter-productive. Can we not just allow people to sort these things out between each other.

Absolutely not!
Nowadays you'll have to have 20 pages of policy and rules and regulation about using the word "hello" in a professional work environment.
Can I use hello any time of day? Is it offensive because it contains the word "hell"? Who am I allowed to greet that way? Is there a particular inflection and do I need a specific gesture to go with that? Can I use it several times on the same person in the same day? Do I have to follow it up with more words?

We have rules and regulations like this because it seems the people who are products of the modern education system are completely helpless in every day situations if they don't have everything regulated, including the use of toilet paper (One up, one down and one to polish).
What are meant to think or feel? Exaclty how should we look at the other person when talking to them?
Maybe the people in charge all suffer from Aspbergers, anxiety and OCD and if the exact angle of hand to wrist when offering the hand for a handshake is not specified, they will sh*t their pants and run around helplessly in circles the whole day?
I am hoping against hope that there is a sufficient number of people left with even the tiniest sliver of intelligence and commons sense and that maybe one day they'll say that we don't NEED fcuking stupid guidelines like these, but I am not hopeful.
I mean, what is the problem? Are these people told to breathe in and out at school and would they die if they didn't receive that command?
Is it some kind of passive agressive self hatred? Is it a desire to make life for other people just that little bit more unpleasant?

One eyed Jack

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Is it some kind of passive agressive self hatred? Is it a desire to make life for other people just that little bit more unpleasant?

It’s symbolic of their struggle against reality :pac:

Kiith

seamus wrote: »

It starts with an A, ends with your Da has a gen in the middle.

It took me way longer then is should have to figure out what you were trying to say there

Good post otherwise though :P

Peter Denham

Glad to see they're dealing with the pressing issues in our health service. I'm sure those without beds will be delighted to hear the news.

blueser

The snowflake society wins again. Absolute BS.

MrMusician18

Surely this has come about after the review of women's healthcare in Ireland and the apparent rampant paternalism in the system. I guess this is partially to address this.

Andy From Sligo

"I'm sorry love that we have had to leave you on this trolley in a drafty ol' corridor for more than 9 hours pet, but the wards have no spare beds duck because of cutbacks i'm afraid - is there anything i can get for you flower? another blanket maybe? -another cup of tea pet?" ...

how on earth could you be offended at anything like that?

Fann Linn

Sundew wrote: »

You forgot “ Chicken” beloved word of Dublin Taxi Drivers! :-)

Kentucky fried

Taco Chips

I am a healthcare professional and I welcome the directive for similar reasons already expressed in the thread.

I always cringe whenever I hear a patient being spoken to with "love" "dear" "darling". It is condescending. Especially when we are talking about a 20/30 something old nurse talking to a 80/90 year old. Language like this perpetuates the unequal power dynamic between care giver and patient. If you consider the psychology of a sick person, by removing their maturity and their right to be respected you are reinforcing in overt ways that the are sick and not that they are recovering.

As already mentioned, patients who are respected and actively participate in their care have better outcomes. Sure this might seem like a small thing but it adds up to a big picture in reshaping modern healthcare relationships. Patients need power and autonomy over their own health and they deserve an equal relationship with their doctors and nurses. I call my patients by their first name out of politeness or whatever they prefer to be referred as. Our conversations are exchanges and we are both there to work to a shared goal. It's a simple initiative and it requires a very mild effort on the part of us healthcare providers in changing our own behaviours.

mikemac2

After a few year renting in Ballyfermot I was calling people love

It's going to take some time to for the staff in Cherry Orchard to change a habit of a lifetime

Andy From Sligo

thing is you can say 'Dear' in an absolute patronizing and demeaning way or you can say it in a nice thoughtful caring way .

when are they going to ban saying peoples first name in a patronizing and derogative way then , is that next on the cards?

if you are a patronizing kinda person you are still gonna be a patronizing person whether you are addressing people by love / dear / duck / pet / bed blocker / PIA / utter git /whatshisface /hypochondriac / time-waster or whatever!

so you know what the HSE should be doing instead? - start getting rid of Patronizing Nurses and Doctors - that should sort it

byhookorbycrook

Feck, next it will be teachers!Because a four and a half year old who has split their head open on the corner of a table will certainly be offended by "pet" or similar. And before anyone says it, nothing to do with "teacher's pet."

Edgware

mikemac2 wrote: »

After a few year renting in Ballyfermot I was calling people love

It's going to take some time to for the staff in Cherry Orchard to change a habit of a lifetime

O.K. Ducky

Under His Eye

They can stop asking me my occupation and religion first.

FunLover18

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That’s what I mean by social interaction 101.

Of course I’m aware that people can be anxious, for an infinite number of reasons. What I don’t expect is that other people should be expected to be aware of all those reasons. As I said earlier - I’m used to being referred to using pet names, nicknames, names that other people would find offensive on my behalf, a whole number of different circumstances and social interactions which would cause some people to feel anxious.

I’m resilient enough that this isn’t going to cause any particular anxiety issues in me, but I’m aware that it could cause anxiety in others, in the same way as people may feel that being referred to constantly by their name, or not being referred to by their name at all (there’s someone who imagines they’re covering all the bases to avoid offence :pac:) could cause heightened anxiety in other people.

You don’t address these issues with mandatory policies, you address them with better training to make people aware of some of these issues. You make reasonable accommodations for people. You don’t punish people for making what are generally considered social faux pas. It happens that people will make mistakes and get things wrong, and the easiest way to correct a person is to inform them there and then, as opposed to expecting that they will adhere to a policy in their interactions with people which doesn’t come naturally to them and by which they don’t intend any offence.

So if the HSE announced that all staff had to attend a two hour training seminar to teach them not to use terms of endearment such as "love" and "dear", you'd be OK with that? You'd see that as a valid usage of time and resources?

It's a simple problem where these terms of endearment are outdated and don't belong in a professional environment. It's a simple solution; tell your staff they can't use them. I just feel the way people are reacting, you'd swear the HSE had prohibited bedside manners when in reality this won't affect anybody except some staff will have to apologise for the occasional slip. I'd be very surprised if anyone ever received any sort of punishment. But I guarantee no one's medical treatment is going to suffer because the nurse couldn't call them "pet".

KathleenGrant

The quality of care and attention I receive are much more important to me than worrying about them calling me love or dear.

One eyed Jack

FunLover18 wrote: »

So if the HSE announced that all staff had to attend a two hour training seminar to teach them not to use terms of endearment such as "love" and "dear", you'd be OK with that? You'd see that as a valid usage of time and resources?

I wouldn’t have any issue with that as it’s providing training as opposed to the time and resources that went into drafting, attempting to implement and police a mandatory policy.

It's a simple problem where these terms of endearment are outdated and don't belong in a professional environment. It's a simple solution; tell your staff they can't use them.

It’s not outdated if a policy has to be introduced to prohibit it. If it were outdated and didn’t belong in a professional environment, then it wouldn’t require a policy to prohibit the use of terms of endearment where they are used by some people in a professional environment. I have an even easier solution - suggest that people shouldn’t be so precious about how they are addressed. I don’t demand that my staff refer to me as their boss, because I don’t treat my staff like children. I expect children who are not mine to refer to me as ‘Mr.’ rather than referring to me by my first name, because I am not their father for one thing, and secondly because we are not in a professional environment where I regard them as my equal on the basis that they are adults. Children are clearly not adults.

I just feel the way people are reacting, you'd swear the HSE had prohibited bedside manners when in reality this won't affect anybody except some staff will have to apologise for the occasional slip.

Why would you expect that anyone should have to apologise for this? It’s a social faux pas, it’s not worth breaking anyone’s balls or having them apologise for a slip up. I don’t see any justification for making someone apologise for something where there was no offence intended. We’re all adults here, yet you expect adults should behave like children to appease your sensitivities? You’d be waiting a while for any apology in my company, which is why I would never work for any company that would have such a policy in their terms and conditions of employment.

I'd be very surprised if anyone ever received any sort of punishment. But I guarantee no one's medical treatment is going to suffer because the nurse couldn't call them "pet".

I wouldn’t at all be surprised if anyone who made a mistake and caused someone to take offence where none was intended, were subject to disciplinary procedures and made an example of for the rest of the staff to justify the existence of a nonsense policy that attempts to police relationships between medical staff and the people in their care. Nobody’s medical treatment has ever suffered because the nurse called them pet either, and if their recovery were predicated upon whether or not they were referred to by their preferred address, I would suggest that was a symptom of an underlying issue for which the cure may well be large doses of cop the fcuk on.

WoollyRedHat

seamus wrote: »

I knew this would trigger the snowflakes.

It's been presented in a way that makes it sound like PC nonsense, but it's actually a quality of care initiative.

One of the problems Irish healthcare has always had is that it's traditionally been run like a school. Doctors and nurses are the teachers, patients are the children and need to just STFU and take what they're given.

The medical evidence shows that patients who feel involved in their own health provision, who feel adequately informed about what's going on and who feel like it's a collaborative effort, have better outcomes than patients who feel passive, subordinate to the staff, or uninformed about their care.

Thus, you can see how the use of words like "love" and "dear", "pet", etc, are condescending terms that are likely to make a patient feel less positive aout their care and less involved. If you are trivialised by a health provider through these words, then communication will begin to break down, and patient outcomes decline.

Of course, this is just part of an entire range of measures by the HSE to improve communications between patients and health professionals. But naturally a few snowflakes have jumped on this specific one as an example of "PC gone mad omgz my 90 year old granny loves being called dear when will these lunatics stop!!!1".

You'll also note that the use of bed numbers or illnesses to refer to patients is being discontinued. But, no way, people aren't up in arms about that. I wonder why that is....? It starts with an A, ends with your Da has a gen in the middle.

This is all about ensuring that patients feel involved in their own healthcare provision and respected as an equal by health staff. Because that results in better healthcare.

All well and good, valid points to be sure, but timing is key and HSE don't earn a lot of good will for good reason, especially around this time of year....

Andy From Sligo

the old Victorian matrons and ward sisters of back in the day would love all this now , moving away from modern times of using love and dear and pet and starting to address patients by their fist name ... then we will move on to that it will be deemed it is dis-respectful to address patients by their first name and some patients will want the doctors and nurses to address them as Mr / Sir and Mrs or mis , or maa'm or me'lady - then the non-binary patients will all get their knickers in a twist and then ....

Mrs OBumble

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

when are they going to ban saying peoples first name in a patronizing and derogative way then , is that next on the cards?

It would already be regarded as highly unprofessional.

You'll do realise that health professionals' behaviour is already highly regulated and scrutinised.

This policy is just formalising what good health professionals know and practise already.

At least it's better than the campaign of a few years ago, encouraging patients to ask "have you washed your hands?" UHPs should have been so offended by that one - but weren't, because they knew damn well that lots of their colleagues weren't following the basic rules.

And it's not fiddling while Rome burns, either, On average, engaged patients get well faster, so get out of hospital faster. It may not free up individual beds faster, but treating adults like adults moves the population thru the system faster.

Captain Obvious

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

the old Victorian matrons and ward sisters of back in the day would love all this now , moving away from modern times of using love and dear and pet and starting to address patients by their fist name ... then we will move on to that it will be deemed it is dis-respectful to address patients by their first name and some patients will want the doctors and nurses to address them as Mr / Sir and Mrs or mis , or maa'm or me'lady - then the non-binary patients will all get their knickers in a twist and then ....

And? Would that be such an imposition? If your friend asked you to call him by his middle name instead of his first would you not do it? Who cares what his reason is?

Andy From Sligo

but that is what the HSE has proposed to call patients by their first name ... well wouldnt some of those people feel it too forthcoming and prefer that they be addressed sir or madam? - you are never gonna please everyone all of the time!

someone or loads of people must have actually physically complained to the HSE (maybe in writing or whatever) about being called love or dear or something or surely the HSE would not be implementing this now would they?

does it really matter how patients are addressed .. as long as they are getting addressed and treated well? - thats more important than what they want / should be called

Rezident

More impersonal and rigid, it's PC BS.

Andy From Sligo

Captain Obvious wrote: »

And? Would that be such an imposition? If your friend asked you to call him by his middle name instead of his first would you not do it? Who cares what his reason is?

your assuming that the patient can get a chance to say to the doctor / nurse / healthcare worker "excuse me , please dont call me love or dear. I would like to be addressed by my first name or middle name" (or whatever)

but what if the patient hasnt made it clear beforehand or what if they go out to someone in a semiconscious state and the paramedics dont know the first name of the person?

of course if someone wants to be addressed by their first name or sir or madam and has made this clear but the doctor/nurse / healthcare worker and they dont respect this and continue to call them love etc.. then this is not right too

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Rezident wrote: »

More impersonal and rigid, it's PC BS.

On the contrary, calling people by their actual name is far more personal.

lertsnim

Put a sign on the beds of those who would be put out saying not to talk to them in case they feel patronised and leave everyone else get on with their lives.

Mantis Toboggan

HSE is one of the biggest scurges on this country, needs to be done away with asap.

TCM

Mantis Toboggan wrote:

HSE is one of the biggest scurges on this country, needs to be done away with asap.

..and replaced by?

Captain Obvious

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

your assuming that the patient can get a chance to say to the doctor / nurse / healthcare worker "excuse me , please dont call me love or dear. I would like to be addressed by my first name or middle name" (or whatever)

but what if the patient hasnt made it clear beforehand or what if they go out to someone in a semiconscious state and the paramedics dont know the first name of the person?

of course if someone wants to be addressed by their first name or sir or madam and has made this clear but the doctor/nurse / healthcare worker and they dont respect this and continue to call them love etc.. then this is not right too

And why is this new protocol so terrible? Start with first name instead of something more familiar and casual. As far as I am aware, there's nothing to say you cannot actually call them "love" if that's what they ask you too. Although since the only source for this story is the Daily Mail we don't have much to go on.

One eyed Jack

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

On the contrary, calling people by their actual name is far more personal.

That’s surely a matter of individual opinion though? I’ll often use terms of endearment with people and never once has there been an objection to me using those terms, because the people I use them with are familiar with the use of these terms and don’t tend to read into it and infer something that isn’t there. I extend them the same courtesy and understanding when they refer to me using terms of endearment.

When I was in hospital a couple of months back, I don’t remember anyone ever calling me by my first name, and the only reason I’m racking my brains trying to think of anyone that did, is because of this thread. I wasn’t overthinking it then, it didn’t even register as a concern. I had other things on my mind besides whether or not the nurse used my name when she was taking a swab for CPE, etc.

The only time that sticks in my memory was the nurse in Crumlin when she was filling out my brothers chart wrote “Eating well, A. Savage”... it took me a minute before it dawned on me that her surname was Savage