HSE No Longer Allowed to Refer to Patients as "Love" or "Dear"

One eyed Jack

Sardonicat wrote: »

As I said earlier in this thread, in the early 90s in UK NHS we were trained NOT to address people with a term of endearment. All health workers, be they professional or support, are trained likewise. It's not new, at all. A ban is making something official policy that has for years been strongly discouraged.

I don’t have an issue with it being suggested that a behaviour is discouraged. I have an issue with prohibiting a behaviour as dictated by policy. Now do you see the difference? One is treating staff as though they are competent and capable adults, the other is treating staff as though they are incapable of understanding the idea that for some people using terms of endearment to refer to them is considered offensive.

Yes, you'll hear tea ladies or household staff using these terms, these are people less likely to know the individual names.

They’re actually far more likely to know the names of all the patients on the wards in my experience of both staff in childrens hospitals and in adults hospitals, and in the office environment, because they actually often care enough to get to know a person whereas doctors are more concerned with diagnosis and prognosis, etc. The last thing they generally tend to concern themselves with is getting to know their patients.

IME, it tends to be elderly, confused patients who are most often addressed this way. People who often are non verbal or not able to articulate and express their personality. Now imagine you are one such person; already in a fog of dementia, you're now in a strange place and you've probably got new medication adding to your confusion. You have to stay in this place for days or weeks and during that time not one person uses your name when speaking to you. Not very nice is it?

You’re asking me to imagine something I couldn’t possibly have any experience of or any basis upon which to form an opinion. Do people in your experience tend to use your name every single time they talk to you in normal conversation, or do they use your name generally when they’re trying to get your attention? In those circumstances you’re describing, I’d be a captive audience, it’s not as though I’d be even capable of understanding what they’re saying, let alone be in any position to comprehend being offended by it.

Raheem Euro

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Personally (and that is just my particular type of crazy), I dislike it when they use my name excessively and maybe even give it special emphasis.

Now, John, we will look after you, John. Don't worry John, you're in good hands, John. And, John, if you need anything, just call for me, John.

Yes, I know, that's my name darling. Don't wear it out, or I make you buy me a new one.

:mad:
Are we being difficult John?
You know what happens when you're difficult John.

manonboard

I find this sad.

As a 33/M, when i've been in hospital when a male nurse calls me buddy/man or a female nurse calls me love/dear.. I feel like i have some personal connection happening, or someone cares emotionally..
In a hospital, it can feel so lonely for so many people. Allowing terms that represent endearment is more than welcomed in my life.

Names are hard to remember too. It has no conceptual information/associations the way medical knowledge/skills does so its very hard for some people. I struggle to remember names, but i find it easy to remember how people feel about things.

Sardonicat

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Sardonicat wrote: »

As I said earlier in this thread, in the early 90s in UK NHS we were trained NOT to address people with a term of endearment. All health workers, be they professional or support, are trained likewise. It's not new, at all. A ban is making something official policy that has for years been strongly discouraged.

I don’t have an issue with it being suggested that a behaviour is discouraged. I have an issue with prohibiting a behaviour as dictated by policy. Now do you see the difference? One is treating staff as though they are competent and capable adults, the other is treating staff as though they are incapable of understanding the idea that for some people using terms of endearment to refer to them is considered offensive.

Yes, you'll hear tea ladies or household staff using these terms, these are people less likely to know the individual names.

They’re actually far more likely to know the names of all the patients on the wards in my experience of both staff in childrens hospitals and in adults hospitals, and in the office environment, because they actually often care enough to get to know a person whereas doctors are more concerned with diagnosis and prognosis, etc. The last thing they generally tend to concern themselves with is getting to know their patients.

IME, it tends to be elderly, confused patients who are most often addressed this way. People who often are non verbal or not able to articulate and express their personality. Now imagine you are one such person; already in a fog of dementia, you're now in a strange place and you've probably got new medication adding to your confusion. You have to stay in this place for days or weeks and during that time not one person uses your name when speaking to you. Not very nice is it?

You’re asking me to imagine something I couldn’t possibly have any experience of or any basis upon which to form an opinion. Do people in your experience tend to use your name every single time they talk to you in normal conversation, or do they use your name generally when they’re trying to get your attention? In those circumstances you’re describing, I’d be a captive audience, it’s not as though I’d be even capable of understanding what they’re saying, let alone be in any position to comprehend being offended by it.

I'm explaining one of the reasons the practice of addressing people with a term of endearment is discouraged. In short, it's to ensure the staff always view the person they are treating as an individual.

I agree with you that the constant repetition of your name is grating and unnecessary.

vetinari

Just so I understand, a bunch of posters here are upset that the hospital staff will no longer call patients love of Dear.
And the people complaining about this are apparently the non sensitive people.
There's none so think skinned these days that anti PC people looking for an issue to jump on.

Seamus already explained the reasoning for this change earlier in this thread.
Yet, the anti PC crowd are utterly resistant to change.
Why on earth do you care so much about the terms Love and Dear?
It must be exhausting to find so much offense everywhere.
Anti PC is now out of control online.

FunLover18

manonboard wrote: »

I find this sad.

As a 33/M, when i've been in hospital when a male nurse calls me buddy/man or a female nurse calls me love/dear.. I feel like i have some personal connection happening, or someone cares emotionally..
In a hospital, it can feel so lonely for so many people. Allowing terms that represent endearment is more than welcomed in my life.

But it was just those terms, it was the manner in which they were used, the smile that accompanied them. As I said previously, I would hope HSE staff are capable of making patients feel comfortable and relate to them on a personal level without these terms ... Like every normal human being.

dr.fuzzenstein

Kivaro wrote: »

What did you just call her?
You could get 3 months in jail for that.

I'm much to pretty for jail! :eek:

dr.fuzzenstein

Raheem Euro wrote: »

:mad:
Are we being difficult John?
You know what happens when you're difficult John.

Nurse Ratched?

NSAman

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I'm much to pretty for jail! :eek:

All the more reason you might like jail...(did I actually say that???)

It's all about how offended become using the term. Dear/Luv/ it makes no difference to me. So long as people are doing their jobs correctly, and doctors and nurses always have the notes, I dont see an issue.

Perhaps some people are too sensitive over their names....I mean who is gonne call someone Mr. Fuzzenstein...or Ms. Terizbalzov?

One eyed Jack

vetinari wrote: »

Just so I understand, a bunch of posters here are upset that the hospital staff will no longer call patients love of Dear.
And the people complaining about this are apparently the non sensitive people.
There's none so think skinned these days that anti PC people looking for an issue to jump on.

Seamus already explained the reasoning for this change earlier in this thread.
Yet, the anti PC crowd are utterly resistant to change.
Why on earth do you care so much about the terms Love and Dear?
It must be exhausting to find so much offense everywhere.
Anti PC is now out of control online.

You’re being ridiculous. I’m not in the least bit offended by the introduction of these policies. I just think they’re unnecessary, and the reason I think they are unnecessary is because people who find the terms offensive are perfectly capable of explaining to an individual that they as an individual find such terms of endearment offensive. It’s basic social interaction 101 - don’t like to be referred to in a way that people are commonly referred to? Then say that to them, rather than expect people to be aware of every nuance of their speech that other people may find offensive.

It’s policing people’s interactions with a policy that is completely unnecessary, all it does is make people more anxious and heighten their fear of offending people, same as the whole “you shall refer to me by my preferred pronouns” idiocy.

One eyed Jack

Sardonicat wrote: »

I'm explaining one of the reasons the practice of addressing people with a term of endearment is discouraged. In short, it's to ensure the staff always view the person they are treating as an individual.

I’ve never perceived people who have referred to me using terms of endearment as anything other than that person treating me as an individual. They’re terms of endearment used in everyday speech, it’s best not to read too much into them.

facehugger99

What are the guidelines on calling someone 'man', when you're stoned at a party and have forgotten their name?

FunLover18

What about the anxiety of having to tell someone who's treating you in a professional capacity that you'd prefer they didn't call "dear" or "love" or that you'd prefer a certain pronoun? Do you not think that the person receiving medical attention or treatment is suffering enough anxiety without the fear of being called a snowflake or having pronoun preference referred to as "idiocy"?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Gracelynn Panicky Ticker wrote: »

Politically correct nonsense. A lot of elderly patients in particular would appreciate these terms. A bit of warmth and affection never hurt anybody.

I spend a lot of time in hospital unfortunately. My experience is that these terms of endearment are rarely used. Healthcare workers tend to keep their language professional. But if you think that because of that, they convey no warmth and affection, you’d be very wrong. So many of the doctors and nurses I deal with are incredibly kind and warm. They achieve that via their demeanour, not by using pet terms of endearment that not everyone will appreciate.

Raheem Euro

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You’re being ridiculous. I’m not in the least bit offended by the introduction of these policies. I just think they’re unnecessary, and the reason I think they are unnecessary is because people who find the terms offensive are perfectly capable of explaining to an individual that they as an individual find such terms of endearment offensive. It’s basic social interaction 101 - don’t like to be referred to in a way that people are commonly referred to? Then say that to them, rather than expect people to be aware of every nuance of their speech that other people may find offensive.

It’s policing people’s interactions with a policy that is completely unnecessary, all it does is make people more anxious and heighten their fear of offending people, same as the whole “you shall refer to me by my preferred pronouns” idiocy.

You're saying that it's in the eye of the beholder so to speak. That 'dear' isn't inherently patronising but the unusual perception of one person might hear it that way. While there is no laboratory test that can give us an objective, mathematical patronising measure of a particular word I think most people know that terms such as petal, dear, lad... are such and intended as such.

The problem with trying to legislate against particular words is that the underlying attitude and general communication, which is more important, remains unchanged. You cannot create a set of rules that imbues good Bedside Manner. It is difficult to even define good Bedside Manner even if we mostly know it when we see it. Is it commanding, reassuring, respectful, slightly cheery? But never talking down to someone.
A bit like the Doctor 2min30sec into this clip

SEPT 23 1989

vetinari wrote: »

Just so I understand, a bunch of posters here are upset that the hospital staff will no longer call patients love of Dear.
And the people complaining about this are apparently the non sensitive people.
There's none so think skinned these days that anti PC people looking for an issue to jump on.

Seamus already explained the reasoning for this change earlier in this thread.
Yet, the anti PC crowd are utterly resistant to change.
Why on earth do you care so much about the terms Love and Dear?
It must be exhausting to find so much offense everywhere.
Anti PC is now out of control online.

I find it offensive that when our health system is in such a mess that this is the biggest issue these wage thieves can find a solution to

A solution to a problem that does not exist

I will embrace change when I don't have to wait 20 hours in casualty waiting to be treated

One eyed Jack

FunLover18 wrote: »

What about the anxiety of having to tell someone who's treating you in a professional capacity that you'd prefer they didn't call "dear" or "love" or that you'd prefer a certain pronoun? Do you not think that the person receiving medical attention or treatment is suffering enough anxiety without the fear of being called a snowflake or having pronoun preference referred to as "idiocy"?

That’s what I mean by social interaction 101.

Of course I’m aware that people can be anxious, for an infinite number of reasons. What I don’t expect is that other people should be expected to be aware of all those reasons. As I said earlier - I’m used to being referred to using pet names, nicknames, names that other people would find offensive on my behalf, a whole number of different circumstances and social interactions which would cause some people to feel anxious.

I’m resilient enough that this isn’t going to cause any particular anxiety issues in me, but I’m aware that it could cause anxiety in others, in the same way as people may feel that being referred to constantly by their name, or not being referred to by their name at all (there’s someone who imagines they’re covering all the bases to avoid offence :pac:) could cause heightened anxiety in other people.

You don’t address these issues with mandatory policies, you address them with better training to make people aware of some of these issues. You make reasonable accommodations for people. You don’t punish people for making what are generally considered social faux pas. It happens that people will make mistakes and get things wrong, and the easiest way to correct a person is to inform them there and then, as opposed to expecting that they will adhere to a policy in their interactions with people which doesn’t come naturally to them and by which they don’t intend any offence.

Mousewar

Context is key. Trying to legislate manners is counter-productive. Can we not just allow people to sort these things out between each other.

Rubberchikken

while im not fond of it i realise others are so maybe raising it as an isdue isnt a bad thing.
for some staff its an excuse to not even bother learning/remembering patients names.

Cee-Jay-Cee

People should be asked to sign a form stating their preferred way they want to be addressed. It would probably be best to have a multiple choice and get the patient to tick a box or boxes. It could be completed as the patient enters the hospital or at A&E.

Some options are:

Love
Dear
Hun
Sweetie
Darling
Pet
Sir
Madam
Patient
Mr xxxx
Mrs xxxx
Miss
Fr
Sr
Doctor
Lad
Lady
Lord
Other

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I spend a lot of time in hospital unfortunately. My experience is that these terms of endearment are rarely used. Healthcare workers tend to keep their language professional. But if you think that because of that, they convey no warmth and affection, you’d be very wrong. So many of the doctors and nurses I deal with are incredibly kind and warm. They achieve that via their demeanour, not by using pet terms of endearment that not everyone will appreciate.

Also, I'd like to add to this that patients want to feel respected and that their concerns are being taken seriously. Language can play an important in this. Keeping things warm but professional at the same time makes me feel more respected as a patient. It means that when I advocate for myself on something or other (and advocating for myself is something I’ve had to do on more than one occasion), I feel more empowered when I’m called by my name and not some pet term.

vetinari

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You’re being ridiculous. I’m not in the least bit offended by the introduction of these policies. I just think they’re unnecessary, and the reason I think they are unnecessary is because people who find the terms offensive are perfectly capable of explaining to an individual that they as an individual find such terms of endearment offensive. It’s basic social interaction 101 - don’t like to be referred to in a way that people are commonly referred to? Then say that to them, rather than expect people to be aware of every nuance of their speech that other people may find offensive.

It’s policing people’s interactions with a policy that is completely unnecessary, all it does is make people more anxious and heighten their fear of offending people, same as the whole “you shall refer to me by my preferred pronouns” idiocy.

You're talking out of both sides your mouth here.
If there was a thread started about a patient correcting a doctor over being called love, you'd be one of the first posters with a comment like

"Typical PC rubbish, who do they think they are? Haven't they got bigger issues to worry about?"

It's also awkward to tell a doctor that you'd be prefer to be called by your name. Most patients don't want to be branded as an awkward patient.

Ficheall

Hopefully when these patronising terms of endearment are dropped, a nurse will be allowed greet a patient with "How are your haemorrhoids today, you old fuckwit?"

One eyed Jack

vetinari wrote: »

You're talking out of both sides your mouth here.
If there was a thread started about a patient correcting a doctor over being called love, you'd be one of the first posters with a comment like

"Typical PC rubbish, who do they think they are? Haven't they got bigger issues to worry about?"

It would depend entirely upon context as to whether or not I’d care enough to offer an opinion on the subject. There’s plenty of threads in here I don’t bother with because the premise of them is so ridiculous they’re not even worth entertaining.

If a thread were started over a patient correcting a doctor for calling them love, or as per my own example I gave earlier where in conversation with my consultant I referred to him as doc and not Mr, I’d think they were over-sensitive and really didn’t have much of a point - deal with it and move on with your life.

It's also awkward to tell a doctor that you'd be prefer to be called by your name. Most patients don't want to be branded as an awkward patient.

I’ve never found it in the least bit awkward to tell doctors anything. I have a great relationship with my GP, whom I also refer to as doc, generally anyone who is used to dealing with people will understand these small nuances in conversational speech. I couldn’t care less about being branded an awkward patient when it’s my medical care is under discussion, and there are plenty of times I’ve had to have that conversation with medical professionals where they wanted to take one course of action and I outright refused to give them my consent to do so.

Would you give a doctor your consent to carry out a procedure if it was something you fundamentally disagreed with? Or would you simply allow them to carry on because you didn’t want to be an awkward patient? What do you think they’re going to do? Lace your jelly and ice cream with laxatives? :pac:

Sundew

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

People should be asked to sign a form stating their preferred way they want to be addressed. It would probably be best to have a multiple choice and get the patient to tick a box or boxes. It could be completed as the patient enters the hospital or at A&E.

Some options are:

Love
Dear
Hun
Sweetie
Darling
Pet
Sir
Madam
Patient
Mr xxxx
Mrs xxxx
Miss
Fr
Sr
Doctor
Lad
Lady
Lord
Other

You forgot “ Chicken” beloved word of Dublin Taxi Drivers! :-)

Sundew

Ficheall wrote: »

Hopefully when these patronising terms of endearment are dropped, a nurse will be allowed greet a patient with "How are your haemorrhoids today, you old fuckwit?"

My 86 father in law ( Inner City Dub) would probably shake hands with the first medic to refer to him as “ that cranky auld bo***x in the corner” he gives the medical staff a terrible slagging when he is admitted to James every few months! Can’t wait to hear his views on this!

emptyhouse2222

Omackeral wrote: »

As per Newstalk bulletin this morning, all HSE staff have been banned from using these terms. I don't really give a fiddlers myself but wondering what others think? Do you think it promotes a more professional demeanour? Do you think it strips back a bit of the caring approach and makes it more of an impersonal and rigid experience. Tell me your thoughts pet.

Good that love and dear are banned
why can't we just call each other something neutral like Comrade

Captain Obvious

Is the Daily Mail still the only source for this claim?

ohnonotgmail

emptyhouse2222 wrote: »

Good that love and dear are banned
why can't we just call each other something neutral like Comrade

or maybe we could just use first names. Radical i know.

Flyer29

Easy to see why our health system is such a shambles when the people at the top of the ladder are wasting their time and energy on nonsense like this