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Dublin Marathon 2019 tickets selling fast
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True. But those impressively fast people aren’t going to come to Dublin.
Why be a poor man’s Berlin or London?
Why not be Dublin. The friendly marathon that sends Irish runners to the olympics and sells out 10 months in advance?
Not saying you’re wrong. It’s a good debate.
I still think they could get more stars to the marathon, maybe some on the way down who are well known.0 -
TRR_the_turd wrote: »The national competition is run within the Dublin marathon not vice versa.
Fair point - my error!0 -
Good points. Be great to see a 2.05.
But not sure what that brings to the race.
Dublin can’t compete with the majors for fast elites. The 2nd tiers don’t bring a lot, neither fast times nor name recognition.
Aughney said: “There’s no point us bringing in, say, a woman who has run 2:25 and who will just demoralise the Irish because they can’t get anywhere near her.”
I don’t think it’s a lack of ambition rather than acknowledging the reality and carving out a niche for Dublin. And bringing on Irish marathoners in the process. I thinks that’s classy.
Bringing on Irish marathoners is one thing. It should be encouraged with runners invited that can bring on the top Irish runners. I would very much argue that inviting elites in the 2.12 bracket in living in an artificial running world. The reality is that the top marathon races get the fastest possible athletes, given their budget. It is all well and good saying DCM is the 5th or 6th biggest marathon in Europe. That is very impresssive and fantastic to witness but that is only ONE metric of success (and a big one it is).
The other reality is the disconnect between club runners and DCM. Unfortunately, many (anecdotally the majority) choose to run marathons abroad. That disconnect is there in my view and with the earlier sellout seen for the 2019 edition, one that will grow in my view.
Running is for all, from the running novice to the elite runner. This isn't an 'elitist mentality' - I am a hobby jogger after all.
I just just want to see the fastest possible times, with great races within, on the streets of our capital.0 -
I'm pretty sure the majority of club runners running an autumn marathon, or any marathon, run Dublin.0
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Just got my code from KBC and entered . First marathon really looking forward to it.0
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Every runner whose primary source of income is derived from something other than running can be described as a hobby jogger so a conservative 99.9%. I think Dublin has the proper balance now of contributing in a tangible way to the development of Irish athletes while still attracting good quality overseas athletes. This year was a particularly exciting race which make more of an impression on the public than one star runner on a procession.dublin runner wrote: »Good points. Be great to see a 2.05.
But not sure what that brings to the race.
Dublin can’t compete with the majors for fast elites. The 2nd tiers don’t bring a lot, neither fast times nor name recognition.
Aughney said: “There’s no point us bringing in, say, a woman who has run 2:25 and who will just demoralise the Irish because they can’t get anywhere near her.”
I don’t think it’s a lack of ambition rather than acknowledging the reality and carving out a niche for Dublin. And bringing on Irish marathoners in the process. I thinks that’s classy.
Bringing on Irish marathoners is one thing. It should be encouraged with runners invited that can bring on the top Irish runners. I would very much argue that inviting elites in the 2.12 bracket in living in an artificial running world. The reality is that the top marathon races get the fastest possible athletes, given their budget. It is all well and good saying DCM is the 5th or 6th biggest marathon in Europe. That is very impresssive and fantastic to witness but that is only ONE metric of success (and a big one it is).
The other reality is the disconnect between club runners and DCM. Unfortunately, many (anecdotally the majority) choose to run marathons abroad. That disconnect is there in my view and with the earlier sellout seen for the 2019 edition, one that will grow in my view.
Running is for all, from the running novice to the elite runner. This isn't an 'elitist mentality' - I am a hobby jogger after all.
I just just want to see the fastest possible times, with great races within, on the streets of our capital.0 -
Testosterscone wrote: »Pretty sure a lot of people got a good bit from Eliud Too both your average Joe and people here.
How about the fact that the debut of the olympic silver medalist in Rio, a man who has been a an important figure for human rights in Ethiopia occurred in this race
Ah come on. At the time he was a nobody and added nothing to the marathon. I dont consider the top kenyans as joe soaps.
But just think the current crop that run dont offer anything. Most enjoyable dublin as a spectator was when there was no sponsor.0 -
I'm pretty sure the majority of club runners running an autumn marathon, or any marathon, run Dublin.
Selling out so early will affect club teams in the marathon. I couldnt say right now if i want to run dublin or not, in May i can make that call.
Then again i have feeling they have more spots for the clubs team nearer the time.0 -
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dublin runner wrote: »Having a race with 20,000 people; in capital city; within a national competition; with a global banking brand as sponsor.......not having an elite field? If that is the limit of ambition well, I just don't know anymore. A glorified fun run.
Having someone run 2.05-2.09/2.25-2.30 female should be the target but I realise I am in the minority on that account.
Nataliya Lehonkova ran 2:28 last year and won by over 6 minutes. You really believe KBC bank, the global bank is sponsoring this race? It's KBC Ireland, the subsidiary version that is. They can't compare to NN, the Dutch global insurance group sponsoring Rotterdam or German car maker BMW sponsoring Berlin or American Bank Bank of America sponsoring Chicago. All the main Global parent for their buisness with revenue streams range from 20-500 times the size of KBC Ireland.I still think they could get more stars to the marathon, maybe some on the way down who are well known.
Tadesse Tola ran this year who is a very well known former 2:04 guy. Dereje Debele won it in 2015 who was a 2:07 guy.
I think you guys are losing perspective on how hugely expensive it is to bring 2:05-2:09 guys to the race. Fukouka marathon was on 2 weeks ago(probably one of the most historic marathons in the world). 2 guys broke 2:09
The Abu Dhabi marathon was on last weekend and had supposedly daft appearance fees and 100 grand for the winner plus another 100 grand for anyone who finished faster than 2:04 had 4 guys under 2:09 and that course ended up being short. Emmanuel Mutai(4th fastest all time) who is the definition of a receding star was running that and still got a huge payday just for his name to end up detached before halfway and finish in 2:12.
The Berlin marathon turned down Kenneisa Bekele this year because he was asking for a huge appearance fee and hadn't run a good marathon in 2 years. Huge stars of the past are living on name and still demanding huge paydays just to run.
2:05 won London in 2017, 2:05 won Chicago this year, 2:05 won Tokyo this year, 2:06 came second in Berlin this year, 2:07 won Fukoka this year. 2:06 won Paris this Year. All ridiculously flat courses. There seems to be an idea around now that 2:03-2:07 guys grow on trees these days but that is not true, The guys that run in that range are all doing the Marathon majors with 100's of thousands and even millions of Euro on the line.
Now then look at it at the perspective of the Dublin marathon and say I want 2:05 to 2:09 winning it. Realistically you need a 2:03 guy to be able to run 2:05 in Dublin and a 2:07 guy to be able to run under 2:09 on that course. A 2:03 guy is probably going to demand a near six digit appearance fee, he's going to want a huge 1st place prize to cover the losses he would have from missing out on a London or Berlin and throw away his place in the 500 grand marathon major competition.
2:07 guys won't be much cheaper because they are legimate threats for podiums and wins at major marathons. To pay for one of them, you discard lets say 10 of the other Africans. You then have to assure that he's not just going to go out at 2:15 pace and sprint for the win so you have to incentivise him to run fast by adding huge time bonuses, make sure he has some ccompetition and it's not just a solo time trial where he wins by 6-10 minutes and you now have doubled the cost the cost as he will pick up time bonuses to and will need a large prize pool to cover the podium places. What if the second guy has a bad day or got injured in the build up, you better make sure you have another 2:03-2:07 guy on hand that's what and at that point, you are competing with the likes of Berlin and Chicago for top talent as well as having to recruit and pay for lesser talent to add to the depth of the race.
You end up with hundreds of thousands of euro in investment into the elite field and if you haven't got a huge history like many of the marathons mentioned earlier or a propanda fueled Saudi prince throwing money at it, finding a sponsor willing to cover those costs is not going to be easy.
I would love to see those guys and times been run in Dublin but the reality is a lot more complicated than it's been made out to be here.0 -
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I'm pretty sure the majority of club runners running an autumn marathon, or any marathon, run Dublin.
Not sure about this. The DCM isn’t really pushed as a championship race, and as we see from this forum every year, huge numbers of club runners go abroad for autumn marathons.
I’d love to see a situation where club runners could have an opportunity to enter closer to the date at a set price. This happened with the national half in the past, leading to very competitive racing throughout the field.
I’ve run in a couple of National marathon championships in Spain and elsewhere, and the club side of it is promoted much better.0 -
Look at the entry list for the national championships. Foreign marathons get a lot of discussion on here because if you are going to a different city you will have questions about flights, hotels, expos etc. But compare the numbers posting in the Dublin thread to the numbers in all the other autumn marathons.0
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I'd also like to see a solution for club runners through0
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ThePiedPiper wrote: »Not sure about this. The DCM isn’t really pushed as a championship race, and as we see from this forum every year, huge numbers of club runners go abroad for autumn marathons.
I’d love to see a situation where club runners could have an opportunity to enter closer to the date at a set price. This happened with the national half in the past, leading to very competitive racing throughout the field.
I’ve run in a couple of National marathon championships in Spain and elsewhere, and the club side of it is promoted much better.
10 Irish club runners ran under 2:25 and 20 under 2:30 in Dublin this year, the most since the 80's. The most since the 1980's so the vast majority of the real top club runners were still running Dublin. Berlin had 3 Irish under 2:30(Gary o'Hanlon was one and did both) I think and Frankfurt had 1 I iirc. I didn't see any Irish outside of those in any other other Autumn marathon except Gary running Valencia as well.0 -
I presume ThePiedPiper was talking about all club runners. I just had a look at the entry list, there were over 2500 entrants in the national marathon championship. That's about 10% of the adult AAI membership. No way are there more club runners running foreign marathons instead of Dublin.0
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I presume ThePiedPiper was talking about all club runners. I just had a look at the entry list, there were over 2500 entrants in the national marathon championship. That's about 10% of the adult AAI membership. No way are there more club runners running foreign marathons instead of Dublin.
Yeah, I know what he meant but I thought that was a good data set that I could pull off the top of my head to show the vast majority of club runners were running Dublin compared to other marathons which was the point he quoted you on.0 -
El CabaIIo wrote: »Nataliya Lehonkova ran 2:28 last year and won by over 6 minutes. You really believe KBC bank, the global bank is sponsoring this race? It's KBC Ireland, the subsidiary version that is. They can't compare to NN, the Dutch global insurance group sponsoring Rotterdam or German car maker BMW sponsoring Berlin or American Bank Bank of America sponsoring Chicago. All the main Global parent for their buisness with revenue streams range from 20-500 times the size of KBC Ireland.
Tadesse Tola ran this year who is a very well known former 2:04 guy. Dereje Debele won it in 2015 who was a 2:07 guy.
I think you guys are losing perspective on how hugely expensive it is to bring 2:05-2:09 guys to the race. Fukouka marathon was on 2 weeks ago(probably one of the most historic marathons in the world). 2 guys broke 2:09
The Abu Dhabi marathon was on last weekend and had supposedly daft appearance fees and 100 grand for the winner plus another 100 grand for anyone who finished faster than 2:04 had 4 guys under 2:09 and that course ended up being short. Emmanuel Mutai(4th fastest all time) who is the definition of a receding star was running that and still got a huge payday just for his name to end up detached before halfway and finish in 2:12.
The Berlin marathon turned down Kenneisa Bekele this year because he was asking for a huge appearance fee and hadn't run a good marathon in 2 years. Huge stars of the past are living on name and still demanding huge paydays just to run.
2:05 won London in 2017, 2:05 won Chicago this year, 2:05 won Tokyo this year, 2:06 came second in Berlin this year, 2:07 won Fukoka this year. 2:06 won Paris this Year. All ridiculously flat courses. There seems to be an idea around now that 2:03-2:07 guys grow on trees these days but that is not true, The guys that run in that range are all doing the Marathon majors with 100's of thousands and even millions of Euro on the line.
Now then look at it at the perspective of the Dublin marathon and say I want 2:05 to 2:09 winning it. Realistically you need a 2:03 guy to be able to run 2:05 in Dublin and a 2:07 guy to be able to run under 2:09 on that course. A 2:03 guy is probably going to demand a near six digit appearance fee, he's going to want a huge 1st place prize to cover the losses he would have from missing out on a London or Berlin and throw away his place in the 500 grand marathon major competition.
2:07 guys won't be much cheaper because they are legimate threats for podiums and wins at major marathons. To pay for one of them, you discard lets say 10 of the other Africans. You then have to assure that he's not just going to go out at 2:15 pace and sprint for the win so you have to incentivise him to run fast by adding huge time bonuses, make sure he has some ccompetition and it's not just a solo time trial where he wins by 6-10 minutes and you now have doubled the cost the cost as he will pick up time bonuses to and will need a large prize pool to cover the podium places. What if the second guy has a bad day or got injured in the build up, you better make sure you have another 2:03-2:07 guy on hand that's what and at that point, you are competing with the likes of Berlin and Chicago for top talent as well as having to recruit and pay for lesser talent to add to the depth of the race.
You end up with hundreds of thousands of euro in investment into the elite field and if you haven't got a huge history like many of the marathons mentioned earlier or a propanda fueled Saudi prince throwing money at it, finding a sponsor willing to cover those costs is not going to be easy.
I would love to see those guys and times been run in Dublin but the reality is a lot more complicated than it's been made out to be here.
I am fully aware if the sponsorship deal. I know how the elite invite system works. I make the effort to learn these things. If you think it acceptable to invite 2.12 runners, with some faster PB's many years previous, so be it. I don't.
Don't give me the old 'he needs to be a 2.03 runner to run 2.05 in Dublin' type nonsense. Dublin has proven to be a fast course. I hear plenty of excuses why a huge city marathon doesn't have a proper elite field. It is not the norm. Simple.0 -
dublin runner wrote: »I am fully aware if the sponsorship deal. I know how the elite invite system works. I make the effort to learn these things. If you think it acceptable to invite 2.12 runners, with some faster PB's many years previous, so be it. I don't.
Don't give me the old 'he needs to be a 2.03 runner to run 2.05 in Dublin' type nonsense. Dublin has proven to be a fast course. I hear plenty of excuses why a huge city marathon doesn't have a proper elite field. It is not the norm. Simple.
Honestly and not been a smartass as this probably comes across that way but why not get in contact with Eugene Coppinger and ask him these questions. All I've seen so far is you saying that the race needs to be more ambitious and not actually providing anything of substance to how to progress it that way.It's a bit like me wanting 5 ferraris in the drive but until I'm making Floyd Mayweather money, it's all just fantasy.
You want to know how much it costs for a 2:06 guy. Letsrun got an agent tto disclose Boston contracts last year. Geoffrey Kirui's appearance fee for just showing up and running was $80k before bonuses, winnings or anything else.0 -
El CabaIIo wrote: »Honestly and not been a smartass as this probably comes across that way but why not get in contact with Eugene Coppinger and ask him these questions. All I've seen so far is you saying that the race needs to be more ambitious and not actually providing anything of substance to how to progress it that way.It's a bit like me wanting 5 ferraris in the drive but until I'm making Floyd Mayweather money, it's all just fantasy.
You want to know how much it costs for a 2:06 guy. Letsrun got an agent tto disclose Boston contracts last year. Geoffrey Kirui's appearance fee for just showing up and running was $80k before bonuses, winnings or anything else.
I know it is an expensive operation, that there is no doubt.
As it stands, I wouldn't extend invites at all, much like when Sean won a fantastic DCM title. The halfway house DCM has itself now is not to my personal liking (regarding 'elite' field)
I just want the fastest possible athletes running on the streets of Dublin. I will make no apologies foe that!0 -
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The faster the more expensive. The monly paid for speed must be taken from elsewhere in the budget. A 2.05 winning time could see a return to mid 90s Irish standards of mid 2.20s leading times and no representation at major championships. The money being invested in Irish marathon running by DCM and marathon mission has had a tangible effect on Irish athletics. I not sure a fast winning time would have had nearly as great an impact, other than a wow factor for a few anoraks like ourselves. That's just my opinion though.dublin runner wrote: »El CabaIIo wrote: »Honestly and not been a smartass as this probably comes across that way but why not get in contact with Eugene Coppinger and ask him these questions. All I've seen so far is you saying that the race needs to be more ambitious and not actually providing anything of substance to how to progress it that way.It's a bit like me wanting 5 ferraris in the drive but until I'm making Floyd Mayweather money, it's all just fantasy.
You want to know how much it costs for a 2:06 guy. Letsrun got an agent tto disclose Boston contracts last year. Geoffrey Kirui's appearance fee for just showing up and running was $80k before bonuses, winnings or anything else.
I know it is an expensive operation, that there is no doubt.
As it stands, I wouldn't extend invites at all, much like when Sean won a fantastic DCM title. The halfway house DCM has itself now is not to my personal liking (regarding 'elite' field)
I just want the fastest possible athletes running on the streets of Dublin. I will make no apologies foe that!0 -
If DCM and AAI are separate entities, why then should club runners be any more entitled to entries than non-AAI members?0
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If DCM and AAI are separate entities, why then should club runners be any more entitled to entries than non-AAI members?
because it shouldn't be the national championship if club runners can't get in.
From a purely commercial point of view, being the national championship guaranteeed Dublin a steady level of entries during the lean years, and would do if the lean years came again.
From a why-are-we-doing-all-this-voluntary-work-again? point of view, I think the DCM team want to support Irish athletics and want DCM to be the national championships.0 -
If DCM and AAI are separate entities, why then should club runners be any more entitled to entries than non-AAI members?
Because the National championship is part of the race and if clubs are restricted, it can have a negative impact on the race and results of the National champs. I know that will look unfair to others outside but clubs have been driving the race since it's inception and the National championships have been held in conjunction with it for a long time so it would be nice to see an allocation made to clubs like London have with their entry.0 -
because it shouldn't be the national championship if club runners can't get in.
From a purely commercial point of view, being the national championship guaranteeed Dublin a steady level of entries during the lean years, and would do if the lean years came again.
From a why-are-we-doing-all-this-voluntary-work-again? point of view, I think the DCM team want to support Irish athletics and want DCM to be the national championships.
Also remember its alot of the clubs that do the volunteer work, so take that away, what happens?0 -
because it shouldn't be the national championship if club runners can't get in.
From a purely commercial point of view, being the national championship guaranteeed Dublin a steady level of entries during the lean years, and would do if the lean years came again.
From a why-are-we-doing-all-this-voluntary-work-again? point of view, I think the DCM team want to support Irish athletics and want DCM to be the national championships.
I accept those points, but it's still DCM's race to do with it what they will.
Do you honestly think the draw of being the National Championship race has that much of bearing on the number of people registering for the event? I'd say 90% of the club runners last October were there because they wanted to run the Dublin City Marathon. The fact it happened to be the National Championships is incidental.
Sure there's a lot of talk in this thread about club runners being unable to enter the Dublin Marathon, but I don't buy it. If the National Championship was moved to Longford, anybody who truly wished to take part would be able to. And if the AAi were truly concerned about the plight of club runners, that's what they would do. Why not agitate for that, rather than a set number of places being reserved for club runners? Running the biggest marathon in Ireland is what appeals to people. It's as simple as that and it's the same reason the 2019 race has already sold out.
Even if places were reserved for club runners, who would you give them to? The fastest runners in the club? Or the Fit for Lifers? Split the spots 50/50? Or similar to how things already operate, first come, first served?
Also while it might look great that 2 months ago, DCM had the most amount of sub 2:30/2:25 Irish finishers since the 80s, how many Irish runners capable of sub 2:25 and better stayed away? Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the first time Mick Closihey took part? I've no doubt he's very pleased to have won the title, but the fact our best marathoner of recent times first decided to race for the title of National Champion this year reveals a lot. First and foremost, DCM is a mass participation event. The fact that a large cohort Ireland's best marathoners don't always treat it as a priority pace should attest to that.
I ran DCM this year as a club runner and I ran DCM 10 years ago as a non-club member. I paid the entry fee both times and I don't think I had any more right to be taking part in 2018 than I did in 2008.
PS. Club runners can get in, they just needed to register on time.0 -
I accept those points, but it's still DCM's race to do with it what they will.
Do you honestly think the draw of being the National Championship race has that much of bearing on the number of people registering for the event? I'd say 90% of the club runners last October were there because they wanted to run the Dublin City Marathon. The fact it happened to be the National Championships is incidental.
Sure there's a lot of talk in this thread about club runners being unable to enter the Dublin Marathon, but I don't buy it. If the National Championship was moved to Longford, anybody who truly wished to take part would be able to. And if the AAi were truly concerned about the plight of club runners, that's what they would do. Why not agitate for that, rather than a set number of places being reserved for club runners? Running the biggest marathon in Ireland is what appeals to people. It's as simple as that and it's the same reason the 2019 race has already sold out.
Even if places were reserved for club runners, who would you give them to? The fastest runners in the club? Or the Fit for Lifers?
Also while it might look great that 2 months ago, DCM had the most amount of sub 2:30/2:25 Irish finishers since the 80s, how many Irish runners capable of sub 2:25 and better stayed away? Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the first time Mick Closihey took part? I've no doubt he's very pleased to have won the title, but the fact our best marathoner of recent times first decided to race for the title of National Champion this year reveals a lot. First and foremost, DCM is a mass participation event. The fact that a large cohort Ireland's best marathoners don't always treat it as a priority pace should attest to that.
I ran DCM this year as a club runner and I ran DCM 10 years ago as a non-club member. I paid the entry fee both times and I don't think I had any more right to be taking part in 2018 than I did in 2008.
PS. Club runners can get in, they just needed to register on time.
If its a club team, obviously the best get into the team Any remaining spaces go via lottery in the club like it does for London.
If you don't have club runners, you won't have a marathon after awhile.0 -
Also while it might look great that 2 months ago, DCM had the most amount of sub 2:30/2:25 Irish finishers since the 80s, how many Irish runners capable of sub 2:25 and better stayed away? Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the first time Mick Closihey took part?
I'll leave your other points as I think their fair opinions and not my place to argue against.
On this seeing as I mentioned it, I think outside of Dublin this Autumn which is the marathons Dublin is competing with, 2 guys broke 2:25 over the whole marathon season in races outside of Dublin, one was Gary O'Hanlon who ran 3 marathons this season including Dublin. You also had the European Championships in August so a couple of those guys missed out.
This issue with Clohissey and co. that you mentio is that they have had the capability to make the Olympics and World Championships for the last 3 years so they are chasing seconds competing with each other and go to faster marathons to try and insure selection. 30 seconds seperated 4 guys for selection to Rio for instance from Berlin and Seville I believe Clohissey chose in the spring after coming in 4th of the Irish in Berlin. I too would choose the Olympics or World champs over a national title.
The problem then for Clohissey etc after qualifying for Worlds or Olympics becomes that those major championships are usually in August and Dublin is in October. This is the first Autumn marathon he has done since Berlin 2015 which was his first ever Autumn marathon and second marathon ever. Seaward is based in England and he also has rarely done an Autumn marathon or Irish race or championship. Paul Pollock hasn't done an Autumn marathon since Berlin 2015 because he has all the championship races like Clohissey but going back to 2013 Worlds. The last Autumn marathon he done before that was Dublin 2012. Hehir and Ciobanu are perennial contenders in Dublin, almost every year since they started running marathons and that's our top 5 marathon runners in the last few years0 -
El CabaIIo wrote: »On this seeing as I mentioned it, I think outside of Dublin this Autumn which is the marathons Dublin is competing with, 2 guys broke 2:25 over the whole marathon season in races outside of Dublin, one was Gary O'Hanlon who ran 3 marathons this season including Dublin. You also had the European Championships in August so a couple of those guys missed out.
Paddy O' Leary ran about 2:20 in California two weeks ago. A good debut.0 -
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If a certain number of places were allocated to each club, it would be up to the clubs to decide how to allocate them to members.
Or the first wave could be reserved for club runners (and invited elites) with a separate entry process and a reserved number of places.
Or a championship qualifying time, similar to London marathon except somewhere between the UKA time and the GFA time, open only to AAI members.
There are probably more ways of doing it.
I'm sure neither AAI or DCM want to break the link, but neither do they want a lot of complaints from clubs about missing out on the championship.0
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