European Parliament Elections 2019

MFPM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Government spending on infrastructure and spending on housing the poor is right wing... ive heard it all now.

That's a pathetic response. Have some courage and at least make a defense of your argument.

Eric Cartman

MFPM wrote: »

That's a pathetic response. Have some courage and at least make a defense of your argument.

FG have :
Instituted rent pressure zones
Transitioned fron rent allowance to a larger HAP payment
Banned declining HAP from housing ad’s
Created a social housing requirement for new developments
Given people on welfare a christmas bonus
Instituted free gp care for under (12s) iirc
Have expanded the availability of public transport
Have undertaken numerous public transport projects such as luas cross city
Have increased government spending in almost every department
A cyclist oriented overhaul of the city centre and endless cycle paths built all at the detriment of the tax paying motorist
Talks of minimum unit pricing on alcohol, increased taxation on cigarettes.

Have they lowered taxes - not in any meaningful way
Have they been tougher on crime or immigration - not at all
Have they displayed any of the characteristics of any ‘right wing’ party in the entire EU - no.


Its been spend spend spend , giveaways to those who don’t work, and a ‘tough sh*t’ to those who do. If you handed a list of everything FG have done in two election cycles to somebody who didnt know and told them it was the labour party theyd accept it without question.

RandomName2

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Im glad that website actually acknowledges that Ireland has no right (how renua is even on the list is beyond me, and how im an 83% match is beyond me) even the EU acknowledges that FG and FF are centre left pro EU.

That website clearly has no idea what it's talking about if it casually lumps 'conservative' with "anti-EU". Fine Gael is well known for being the most pro-EU party in the Dáil, but it is clearly not the most 'left wing'. PBP is clearly one of the more 'liberal' parties in the Dáil, and also one of the more anti-EU parties.

Well, it might depend on how you are defining 'left' and 'right' wing, but no matter what definition you take, that website is going to be chock full of contradictions. It's taking a model that works in one country (possibly UK?) but doesn't work in Ireland. It wouldn't work somewhere like France either, mind you (where Melenchon is quite anti-EU, despite being far more left wing than Macron).

L1011

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Its been spend spend spend , giveaways to those who don’t work, and a ‘tough sh*t’ to those who do. If you handed a list of everything FG have done in two election cycles to somebody who didnt know and told them it was the labour party theyd accept it without question.

That'd be because quite a lot of that was Labour Ministers or Labour 2011 manifesto content that got in to the Programme for Government. Labour got marginally more of its manifesto implemented than FG in that Government.

However - the social housing content for new developments? FF under Bertie.

And most people using public transport are workers.

Dyr

I reckon the turn out for Dublin will be shocking, looking at the runners it's really poor field

Eric Cartman

Bambi wrote: »

I reckon the turn out for Dublin will be shocking, looking at the runners it's really poor field

+1 just a poor campaign really, very little airtime or press worthy incidents, Id say this is an incumbents election with a few baring the party brand in toe. Hopefully no upsets that see the likes of Gemma in the door.

Casey doesnt have the momentum behind him that the presidential race brought, ill still give him my no.1 anyway.

CrabRevolution

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Im glad that website actually acknowledges that Ireland has no right (how renua is even on the list is beyond me, and how im an 83% match is beyond me) even the EU acknowledges that FG and FF are centre left pro EU.

So PBP are apparently more right wing than Labour, and also more pro-EU than FG despite PBP supporting brexit and also wanting Ireland to leave the EU?

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

A cyclist oriented overhaul of the city centre and endless cycle paths built all at the detriment of the tax paying motorist

Wake up, wake up Eric - you're having that recurring bad dream again! The one where you get all confused and fuzzy about who pays tax and how roads infrastructure is funded.

ancapailldorcha

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Wake up, wake up Eric - you're having that recurring bad dream again! The one where you get all confused and fuzzy about who pays tax and how roads infrastructure is funded.

No more of this nonsense please.

FrancieBrady

When do we get an opinion poll does anyone know?

blackwhite

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When do we get an opinion poll does anyone know?

I'd guess the Sunday papers will have something this weekend - if they wait until next weekend it'll be getting very close to the actual votes


Claire Byrne next week is a possibility also

MFPM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

FG have :
Instituted rent pressure zones
Transitioned fron rent allowance to a larger HAP payment
Banned declining HAP from housing ad’s
Created a social housing requirement for new developments
Given people on welfare a christmas bonus
Instituted free gp care for under (12s) iirc
Have expanded the availability of public transport
Have undertaken numerous public transport projects such as luas cross city
Have increased government spending in almost every department
A cyclist oriented overhaul of the city centre and endless cycle paths built all at the detriment of the tax paying motorist
Talks of minimum unit pricing on alcohol, increased taxation on cigarettes.

Have they lowered taxes - not in any meaningful way
Have they been tougher on crime or immigration - not at all
Have they displayed any of the characteristics of any ‘right wing’ party in the entire EU - no.


Its been spend spend spend , giveaways to those who don’t work, and a ‘tough sh*t’ to those who do. If you handed a list of everything FG have done in two election cycles to somebody who didnt know and told them it was the labour party theyd accept it without question.

The fact that FG may not implement every policy or practice that you consider to be 'right wing' does not mean they are not a right wing party.

Instituted rent pressure zones
Transitioned fron rent allowance to a larger HAP payment
Banned declining HAP from housing ad’s

RPZs are a minimalist intervention into the market and it's a cop out that isn't working it was done simply to ease the pressure they are under for the failure of their housing policy.

HAP is nothing more than a subsidy to the private sector to provide social and affordable housing. The Ad reference is in keeping with the RPZ move - minimalist and cosmetic.

You're focusing on micro measures to sustain a failed argument while ignoring macro policy and practice.

Created a social housing requirement for new developments

That was implemented in 2000 by FF, it was aletered by FG and Lab to make it less 'onerous' on developers.

Given people on welfare a christmas bonus
Instituted free gp care for under (12s) iirc

Again you're cherry picking while ignoring the overall emphasis of policy.

You focus on 'free gp' care while ignoring the ovewhelming two tier health service created and sustained for the private sector.

Have expanded the availability of public transport

Nonsense....I mentioned Bus Connects with 10% routes to be privatised , you ignored it.

Have undertaken numerous public transport projects such as luas cross city

And????

Have increased government spending in almost every department

Indeed and how much of that spending is to facilitate the private sector such as Broadband, LIHAF, LMA, subsidising MNCs, subsidising Vulture funds?

A cyclist oriented overhaul of the city centre and endless cycle paths built all at the detriment of the tax paying motorist

Dublin is one of the most unfriendly city for cyclists in Europe, change is necessary, the city should change for numerous reasons inclduing congestion, environment and safety. You also seem to miss the fact that the overwhelming majority of cyclists are 'tax paying motorists' too!

Talks of minimum unit pricing on alcohol, increased taxation on cigarettes.

They are health related issues and are easy tax raising measures.

Have they displayed any of the characteristics of any ‘right wing’ party in the entire EU - no.

Have they lowered taxes - not in any meaningful way

Have they increased corporation tax, have they stopped subsidising the vulture funds, have they introduced a wealth tax?

Have they been tougher on crime or immigration - not at all

Ireland still one of the hardest countries in which to claim asylum, no end to direct provision, not meeting committments on refugee resettlement.

What would you suggest on crime that's needed?

Its been spend spend spend

Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher did alot of spendig too, they were still doyens of neoliberalism - you seem to think spending is only for the poor.

giveaways to those who don’t work

Plenty of giveaways for the wealthy but you seem fine with that.

If you handed a list of everything FG have done in two election cycles to somebody who didnt know and told them it was the labour party theyd accept it without question.

If you gave them the selective list of micro measures that you've come up with, perhaps, but if you gave them the macro list that I mentioned and you duly ignored (funny that!) they'd see FG as part and parcel of the European right and they'd agree with me that it's absurd to described them as 'centre left'. As for the LP, perhaps that reflects the broad shift to the right of that party since the 1980s.

blackwhite

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/latest-poll-shows-fg-on-track-to-top-all-three-european-constituencies-1.3886974

IT with the first of the weekend.

Looks like Fitzgerald will take 1st seat in Dublin. Andrews probably the 2nd - but I'd wonder how well he'll do on transfers. Appears to be Boylan, Daly and Cuffe fighting for 3rd and the "Brexit" 4th seat - but it wouldn't be impossible to see transfers pushing one of them above Andrews.
Where the transfers of White and Durkan land could end up having a big say on seats 3-4.

MNW looks like McGuinness and Ming will be safe - with McGuinness possibly on the 1st count. Carthy should hold his seat as well, but under a bit of pressure.
Walsh making a strong run at the final spot, but wouldn't be surprised to see Casey take a lot of early transfers from the more fringe also-rans.

South is probably a bit tighter, with Kelly looking strong, and LNR and Kelleher unlikely to miss out. One of Clune or Doyle will likely get a seat - albeit possibly the 5th seat if they struggle with transfers. Any of Wallace, Nunan or O'Sullivan could make a surge on transfers to challenge for either 4th or 5th seat either.

Jamie2k9

Imagine if Daily bags the seat over Boylan. Mary Loo would be in a real uncomfortable position.

Casey should do better than 9%.

MFPM

blackwhite wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/latest-poll-shows-fg-on-track-to-top-all-three-european-constituencies-1.3886974

IT with the first of the weekend.

Looks like Fitzgerald will take 1st seat in Dublin. Andrews probably the 2nd - but I'd wonder how well he'll do on transfers. Appears to be Boylan, Daly and Cuffe fighting for 3rd and the "Brexit" 4th seat - but it wouldn't be impossible to see transfers pushing one of them above Andrews.
Where the transfers of White and Durkan land could end up having a big say on seats 3-4.

MNW looks like McGuinness and Ming will be safe - with McGuinness possibly on the 1st count. Carthy should hold his seat as well, but under a bit of pressure.
Walsh making a strong run at the final spot, but wouldn't be surprised to see Casey take a lot of early transfers from the more fringe also-rans.

South is probably a bit tighter, with Kelly looking strong, and LNR and Kelleher unlikely to miss out. One of Clune or Doyle will likely get a seat - albeit possibly the 5th seat if they struggle with transfers. Any of Wallace, Nunan or O'Sullivan could make a surge on transfers to challenge for either 4th or 5th seat either.

I'm a little sceptical about these poll figures...based on a sampe of just 500, that's very low. In Dublin I'd expect Fitzgerald to be out in front but the gap is a little surprising, the media are pushing the Greens quite a bit, I think White, Harrold, Brien are all overstated.

Fitz, Andrews and 2 from Boylan, Daly and Cuffe it seems.

KikiLaRue

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Imagine if Daily bags the seat over Boylan. Mary Loo would be in a real uncomfortable position.

Casey should do better than 9%.

On what basis? He managed 23% in an election where none of the main political parties participated, and people felt very comfortable throwing him a protest vote safe in the knowledge that Michael D would be confirmed.

I've been in Galway over the last few weeks and haven't seen a single poster, no sign that he's canvassing, visiting schools, hosting local events.

It reeks of hubris that he thinks he can just put his name down on the ballot paper and get elected.

He's up against very well established FF and FG machines this time. Would be surprised if FF didn't up their game in the last few weeks to win a seat.

blackwhite

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Imagine if Daily bags the seat over Boylan. Mary Loo would be in a real uncomfortable position.

Casey should do better than 9%.

There's quite a few loons running in MNW who will eat into some of Casey's first-preference vote from the presidential election. Wouldn't surprise to see him hoover up transfers from them though
He was also the "de facto" FF-genepool candidate in the presidential poll, so would imagine there's a few of his presidential voters now giving their 1st to Smith or Rabbitte

Zubeneschamali

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Casey should do better than 9%.

Casey may do better, but certainly shouldn't.

mrbrianj

Casey selling point in the presidential election was that he spoke out about travellers, and he was not Michael D.

In a normal election he has to really debate against hardened political fighters. Ming and Carty already have his corner of the market covered, and would wipe the floor with him in any format.

Faugheen

blackwhite wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/latest-poll-shows-fg-on-track-to-top-all-three-european-constituencies-1.3886974

IT with the first of the weekend.

Looks like Fitzgerald will take 1st seat in Dublin. Andrews probably the 2nd - but I'd wonder how well he'll do on transfers. Appears to be Boylan, Daly and Cuffe fighting for 3rd and the "Brexit" 4th seat - but it wouldn't be impossible to see transfers pushing one of them above Andrews.
Where the transfers of White and Durkan land could end up having a big say on seats 3-4.

MNW looks like McGuinness and Ming will be safe - with McGuinness possibly on the 1st count. Carthy should hold his seat as well, but under a bit of pressure.
Walsh making a strong run at the final spot, but wouldn't be surprised to see Casey take a lot of early transfers from the more fringe also-rans

If the poll turns out to be in anyway true, then you have to consider that a sizeable portion of McGuinness' surplus will go to Maria Walsh.

blackwhite

Faugheen wrote: »

If the poll turns out to be in anyway true, then you have to consider that a sizeable portion of McGuinness' surplus will go to Maria Walsh.

You'd imagine so - but it would still likely leave her needing 3-4% to reach the quota. Transfers from others still going to be critical for her.

FreudianSlippers

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Imagine if Daily bags the seat over Boylan. Mary Loo would be in a real uncomfortable position.

Casey should do better than 9%.

I'm a bit torn there - I'd normally never vote for either, but it would be interesting to get Daly out of local politics.

Larbre34

FF were idiots running 2 in MNW, they could've been booking office space for Smith already if they hadn't.

nice_guy80

blackwhite wrote: »

There's quite a few loons running in MNW who will eat into some of Casey's first-preference vote from the presidential election. Wouldn't surprise to see him hoover up transfers from them though
He was also the "de facto" FF-genepool candidate in the presidential poll, so would imagine there's a few of his presidential voters now giving their 1st to Smith or Rabbitte

who are the loons?

Larbre34

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I'm a bit torn there - I'd normally never vote for either, but it would be interesting to get Daly out of local politics.

Indeed. The airwaves have been relatively blissful these last 5 years without the dulcet sneer of LMF day in day out.

It would be even more entertaining to see her and Micko separated.

Danzy

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I'm a bit torn there - I'd normally never vote for either, but it would be interesting to get Daly out of local politics.

I disagree with Daly on most things but she has been one of the outstanding TDs from the last 20 years.

She has done more for her country than many who are Ministers for many terms.

blackwhite

nice_guy80 wrote: »

who are the loons?

The first three that spring to mind are
Green
Miller
Healy Eames

MFPM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I'm a bit torn there - I'd normally never vote for either, but it would be interesting to get Daly out of local politics.

Do tell us what would be so 'interesting' about that?

Eric Cartman

MFPM wrote: »

The fact that FG may not implement every policy or practice that you consider to be 'right wing' does not mean they are not a right wing party.



RPZs are a minimalist intervention into the market and it's a cop out that isn't working it was done simply to ease the pressure they are under for the failure of their housing policy.

HAP is nothing more than a subsidy to the private sector to provide social and affordable housing. The Ad reference is in keeping with the RPZ move - minimalist and cosmetic.

You're focusing on micro measures to sustain a failed argument while ignoring macro policy and practice.



That was implemented in 2000 by FF, it was aletered by FG and Lab to make it less 'onerous' on developers.



Again you're cherry picking while ignoring the overall emphasis of policy.

You focus on 'free gp' care while ignoring the ovewhelming two tier health service created and sustained for the private sector.



Nonsense....I mentioned Bus Connects with 10% routes to be privatised , you ignored it.



And????



Indeed and how much of that spending is to facilitate the private sector such as Broadband, LIHAF, LMA, subsidising MNCs, subsidising Vulture funds?



Dublin is one of the most unfriendly city for cyclists in Europe, change is necessary, the city should change for numerous reasons inclduing congestion, environment and safety. You also seem to miss the fact that the overwhelming majority of cyclists are 'tax paying motorists' too!



They are health related issues and are easy tax raising measures.





Have they increased corporation tax, have they stopped subsidising the vulture funds, have they introduced a wealth tax?



Ireland still one of the hardest countries in which to claim asylum, no end to direct provision, not meeting committments on refugee resettlement.

What would you suggest on crime that's needed?



Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher did alot of spendig too, they were still doyens of neoliberalism - you seem to think spending is only for the poor.



Plenty of giveaways for the wealthy but you seem fine with that.



If you gave them the selective list of micro measures that you've come up with, perhaps, but if you gave them the macro list that I mentioned and you duly ignored (funny that!) they'd see FG as part and parcel of the European right and they'd agree with me that it's absurd to described them as 'centre left'. As for the LP, perhaps that reflects the broad shift to the right of that party since the 1980s.

So not doing super lefty things like a wealth tax males them right wing now ? , theyre centerists with a sliver of lefty on the social policy aspect, its the reality of it . They are not a right wing party by any real metric. You’d just preffer to think that so you can sit there like the simpsons “old man shakes fist at cloud”

Ive asked for right wing policies that the party has implemented and you came back with coveney backing a coup to save the starving venezuelan people and a hardline left viewpoint of social programs and spending. FG are only right wing if you consider pbp centerists, which they are not.

Loafing Oaf

Larbre34 wrote: »

FF were idiots running 2 in MNW, they could've been booking office space for Smith already if they hadn't.

There's always swings and roundabouts with these things though. Smith will pick up transfers from the southern end of the constituency that he would not have got if he was running on his own. Whatever way things pan out, I would be surprised if FF do not manage one seat out of four in the constituency where they have historically been strongest. I suppose the wild card is Maria Walsh, who will pick up transfers from left/anti-establishment candidates that a true blue FGer would not have gotten.