Galway Ring Road- are there better ways to solve traffic?

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279709#Comment_120279709

That is all about within city centre traffic not commuter traffic. Someone is not going to stop driving form Athenry to UHG because the Salmon Weir bridge is closed, but they might stop driving from Renmore to UHG

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120282375#Comment_120282375

So, in other words, you accept that disappearing traffic is a thing?...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120282469#Comment_120282469

It doesn't disappear. It converts to other forms. "Disappear" is a convenient political term to envoke the idea it's a "magic solution", much like how anti abortion advocates use the term "Pro-Life" to give positive connotations to their barbarity.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120280053#Comment_120280053

Another interesting whole side-note that we don't really talk about on here is the amount of trips or "multi-trips" that women particularly make in their roles as carers or home-makers. Women are significantly over-represented in trips like picking up groceries, calling to visit relatives, driving children to appointments etc. So if a transport system can better cater for those people who cannot drive for themselves then the quality of life for women particularly can improve.

I consider the improvement of active travel and sustainable travel options as being important for women. Freeing them up from some of the caring leg-work so to speak. You might not eliminate all those journeys but you'll improve some people's quality of life (carer person has time and energy freed-up, cared-for person gains independence). OK we might not eliminate an enormous amount of journeys but we can get a win on the side.

what_traffic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120282645#Comment_120282645

Ya it becomes part of bus traffic which is far more efficient mode of moving people in comparison with car traffic

what_traffic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120282370#Comment_120282370

Survey of ONLY 1895 people for that chart?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120282859#Comment_120282859

that presumes all people are ambulatory enough to self load/unload without assistance.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120282915#Comment_120282915

I get you dont understand how representative sampling works

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120282645#Comment_120282645

Traffic congestion that was there, but no longer is, could be described as disappearing traffic. It doesn't need to be some political conspiracy. Arguing semantics, it doesn't change the point that people are making.

what_traffic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283048#Comment_120283048

I do - but i think the equivalent CSO stats from NL more useful here than this small sample.

That blog is really good though. Shows the journey we are going to have to make here in Ireland. Going to be a slow one.

what_traffic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283033#Comment_120283033

Does it?

The other scenario often used here: " somebody somewhere who needs to bring granny a NEW Washing Machine...."

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283033#Comment_120283033

I would say that needs to be very much part of the picture, when discussing future transport systems.

We need to enable more people to travel independently. We always hear "not everyone can cycle" and it's true, but in my biased opinion, we don't often hear "not everyone can drive". And of course we always say on this forum "we need to get as many of the able bodied people out of single-occupancy cars as possible, to free up the space for the blue badge holders".

You make a valid point, but I don't think it particularly favours (private) cars.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283157#Comment_120283157

Well it seems you dont as 1,895 is actually a rather large sample and gives good confidence in the survey as being representative of population.

KrisW1001

I think one reason why this kind of care-giving travel hasn’t given much attention is that these are usually off-peak journeys, and until now the goal has been to reduce congestion, which is caused primarily by people commuting to education/work in the morning and evening. When you widen the remit to include CO2 emissions, then there’s a reason to reduce off-peak journeys too - even though the road infrastructure can easily accommodate them, they are still adding to greenhouse gas (and Nitrogen oxide) emissions.

But with the exception of schoolchildren, active travel is not a solution for people who cannot drive for themselves.

I would like to see more (properly segregated) cycleways serving schools, and measures taken to strongly discourage drop-offs at school gates. The school problem is self-reinforcing: parents are rightly worried that their kids may be injured by inattentive drivers in big cars near the school, so they drive their kids to the school “for safety”, and in doing so, they end up adding to the very problem that concerned them. But it can’t be just bikes either: School buses work well in rural areas - it’s about time we did something in cities too.

what_traffic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283331#Comment_120283331

Post a link to it anyhow(blog does NOT have this chart) - Galway City Councty would love to have these numbers. Graph shows even car commuter's are using cycling/ecycling & train.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283227#Comment_120283227

I'm not here to favour any mode of transport. I'm here to oppose saying "f*ck (whatever mode) it has to go away" because that invariably ends up hurting the vulnerable. anti-cycle hurts kids & the rest of us. Anti PV hurts hose who are left aside by PT like guide dog users & resource-heavy disabled. We need a full toolbox approach instead of swapping a box of hammers for a single wrench set. A job for every element, and every element for the job.

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120282370#Comment_120282370

Not sure what point you're making here. They discuss it in the blog you linked to. Things like expanding road networks and employer subsidies are encouraging longer commutes (longest commutes in Europe apparently). They specifically mention the expanding and improving road network as an issue in moving people away from cars. Not having a go. Just confused as to the point you're making.

Interesting blog post. The guy seems pretty hardcore on the bike being the only option. I like my cycle commutes but I'd rather see good PT and walking infrastructure as it's more inclusive.

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283657#Comment_120283657

I'd rather see good PT and walking infrastructure as it's more inclusive.

100%. And furthermore, cyclists may shout the loudest and be the most active online, but PT and walking are people's preferred ways of non-car transport - so let's have more of it.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283731#Comment_120283731

What were the most recent modal share counts for Dublin commuters, out of interest? Outside of surveying "personal preference", I suspect we'd need to fall back on commuter data?

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283432#Comment_120283432

Absolutely. Schools are very much the low-hanging-fruit of the Irish transportation system. In survey after survey, as you rightly say, the main reason for driving was cited to be "the danger created by other parents driving".

I would disagree with you slightly and say a surprising number of people can avail of active transport but cannot drive. People with seizures of any kind, people with eyesight issues, quite a few people whose personal economic circumstances mean they cannot drive, foreign nationals waiting for documentation/tests and just your standard unlicenced Irish person. It's likely not the majority of the people who can't drive, but it's definitely a worthwhile demographic to try to facilitate.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283646#Comment_120283646

I'm here to oppose saying "f*ck (whatever mode) it has to go away" because that invariably ends up hurting the vulnerable.

I don't think anyone is proposing or saying that any particular mode has to go away. People are simplky saying that in order to accommodate everyone, people need to be able to make choices and the traditional option (usually the only option) of choosing to drive somewhere should not be allowed to be the simple choice going forwards.

anti-cycle hurts kids & the rest of us.

What?

Anti PV hurts hose who are left aside by PT like guide dog users & resource-heavy disabled.

I'm really not sure what exactly you're hoping to say here. Anyone who is disabled will have more options within a sustainable transport setup. They can make the choice to use public transport, cycle, walk or whatever. They still can make the choice to drive also. Nobody is proposing to remove that.

In addition, with the current setup whereby people driving pretty much own the road and footpaths (or at least treat it that way), with less people making the choice to drive, there would be more parking spots available meaning (in theory) that ignorant prick drivers need not park in such a manner that blocks footpaths causing major inconvenience & danger for people in wheelchairs, pushing buggies, etc.

We need a full toolbox approach instead of swapping a box of hammers for a single wrench set. A job for every element, and every element for the job.

...given that you were the one previously opposed to a sustainable appraoch, it's good to see you coming around to the idea!

KrisW1001

I used “cannot” to mean that driving is a physical impossibility for them, rather than people who are prevented from driving by circumstance. I would also argue that anyone whose eyesight is not good enough to meet the pretty low requirement for driver licencing* is not safe be on a bicycle either, but I do take your point that there are other medical conditions that bar you from driving but would not prevent you from being a safe cyclist.

__

* That requirement is to have ”6/12” vision: i.e., you can see things that someone with normal vision can see at 12m only if they’re 6m or closer. Remember, this is after wearing corrective lenses, so it’s a pretty low bar to clear. (The average observer, by definition, has “6/6” vision).

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120284236#Comment_120284236

You're absolutely right, I was thinking of walking too though!

In Galway for instance I've been surprised by the low levels of walkability of the city. It's really not that big or hilly, but some of the city centre streets have tiny narrow footpaths and footpaths blocked by parked cars. Just basic footpath improvements can win some more people into active transport.

And as an extension of that there's the whole dead-end 1990's/2000's housing estate thing, whereby destinations a few metres apart require a long journey. There's a house 50 metres from my own, door to door, and it's an 800m walk. That's the kind of thing that was considered "normal" for a few decades and hopefully won't ever be again.

Kiteview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283731#Comment_120283731

I suspect that cyclists are shouting the loudest because they have the worst infrastructure.

Imagine the reaction from motorists if, like our cycling “network”, we had roads that started and stopped at random places, that didn’t interconnect with each other and were actively dangerous in many, many places.

Imagine too the reaction from pedestrians if foot paths disappeared in the run up to junctions, like most segregated cycle paths do, and pedestrians were forced to walk in the middle of high volumes of cars as they traversed road junctions.

In both cases, they’d be shouting far louder than cyclists.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283657#Comment_120283657

The point is the lay even in locations with a massively superior pt and cycling infrastructure, there is still only a certain level of journey that can be moved away from the car. Any solution that does not also include provision for road capacity away from the city centre will just either leave the city centre locked up or no one who lives away from the city centre using it for anything other than work

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120284879#Comment_120284879

Thanks for clarifying.

You're exactly right. It needs a comprehensive plan that includes all types of transport options. I'm not against another bridge being built, but this current plan is just going to increase car dependency and leave us in the same situation. GCC seem to be unable or unwilling to plan further than "build more roads and then if there's no traffic problems anymore we might think about alternatives"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120284143#Comment_120284143

Opposed? Coming around? WTF? My position has been the same that you need all, including this ring road. Now I unmuted you as a Moderator, do not abuse that by spewing what could be considered “politico tactical lies from someone tasked with spotting & moderating tactical lies” at me. I don’t have the privilege of ignoring you.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120286975#Comment_120286975

Opposed? Coming around? WTF? My position has been the same that you need all, including this ring road.

Ah ok , I misinderstood obviously. So you still think it is a good idea to spend over a billion euro on a road that has been confirmed by those proposing it will cause more pollution whilst increasing car dependency and congestion while at the same time those proposing it haven't bothered their hole researching alternative sustainable options because it would clearly weaken their defence of the ring road project?

Now I unmuted you as a Moderator, do not abuse that by spewing what could be considered “politico tactical lies from someone tasked with spotting & moderating tactical lies” at me. I don’t have the privilege of ignoring you.

I don't give a toss whether or not you block me! I'm not a mod on this forum. Whilst my points are probably more accurate/correct in terms of the ring road than yours, they carry the exact same weight as yours!

Oh NoEs, tHe PoLiTiCaL AcTiViSt ReWrOtEd My OpInIoN iN MeAnIe LaNgUaGe So He CaN CaLl Me RoNg AnD WiN HiZ aRgOoMeNt!

You write that verbal diarrhoea and expect me to also believe there’s isn’t a national movement of advocates working to make sure this road never gets built? Pull the other one politico.

My simple minded approach. Yellow is ring road. Red is largely underground Metro connecting Oranmore-Roscam-Merlin Park Hospital-Renmore-Eyre Square-Salthill-Knocknacarra-Rahoon-UHG/University-Menlo-Mervue-Ballybrit/Technology Park-Doughiska-Roscam-Oranmore