Galway Ring Road- are there better ways to solve traffic?

TnxM17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120286975#Comment_120286975

The interesting thing here is that most people on here share your views with the one exception, which is THIS particular ring road.

So what is it about the GCRR that you feel that it has to be built?

The swell of opinion on the ground amongst the rural community I grew up & live in, as well as the swell of opinion of people I served in my father’s shop when he had it, the ambulance workers I volunteered with….I’m stretching my mind to try and find anyone bar someone who was going to lose a bit of her garden who didn’t want it.

but course they don’t matter, as far as Greens are concerned they’re all to a man & woman turfcutting one off housing dwelling rural cardriving scum.

for me, though, it’s a matter of preventing a disaster. We had a sense of it when the Salthill Sundays crowd meant that the air corps had to be called to transfer a patient into UHG. What would have happened if the wind had picked ip too much for helicopters to fly? Any unplanned blockage of any of the critical routes will impact emergency vehicle response in a way that would be totally mitigated by having a second primary route crossing putside city limits.

as for current plans, they are what they are. I don’t hold an opinion on them as good or bad as I do not have the expertise to apply the required flow dynamics mathematics to make that evaluation. I believe that you mitigste car usage through taxation, ownership restriction & lane restrictions on built roads. Far easier to put a bus gate on a road than to tell an ambulance to drive across a river.

and we all know it’s a very easy thing for a Movement to astroturf an internet forum. Especially on the kind of project they’ve failed to prevent progressing in every other instance bar the one being targetted. If I had seen the kind of energy thrown into anti-road campaigning mirrored in determining what happens to the city should it go ahead, I’d be less dismissive. But as it is, the shape of the conversation, the focus on making sure this road, its predecessors or its successors never fet built, each time for different reasons (all about finding what works to stop it), makes me think this is a National Green Movement bone and they are not letting go. Country bumpkins of Galway be damned.

KrisW1001

All those problems could be fixed without needing to build a road of this scale, with this many junctions. Don't assume that everyone who is against this road is against it from an anti-roads perspective. Personally, I'm against it because it's a bad scheme that will waste nearly a billion euro and still not fix the problem. I would prefer an actual bypass to be built for the reasons you give, but this is not a bypass

Perfect is the enemy of the good.

Hell of a lot easier to bus gate off a junction to cars than tell an ambulance to drive across two fields & a river.

Sam Russell

Mod: This thread is not a substitute for the GCRR thread that is currently closed, awaiting some progress on the ABP decision.

It is to find other proposals for solving the current chaos within the city caused by congestion. Please do not just posts decrying the lack of progress of the GCRR, but look for solutions within the city. Posts that just concentrate on the opposition to the GCRR, or those that oppose it will be deleted.

Sam Russell

The opposition to the Salthill Promenade cycle lane because it would remove car parking is the type of approach that will prevent any end to this congestion.

Huh? What has deflecting blame to street parking got to do with finding a solution?

I mean, I agree that the Salthill cyclelane was a no-brainer which should have gone ahead & also that street parking is a wanton extravagance we can no longer afford to permit, but what has the blame for its failure got to do with “finding a better way to solve traffic?”

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120288286#Comment_120288286

Would our bedrock be suitable for underground tunneling? I've a feeling it would be difficult to do

TnxM17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289056#Comment_120289056

So, in short, you favour this project to facilitate an ambulance.

As @KrisW1001 points out all of your concerns could be addressed with a much more modest road and have a much better chance of getting planning & support

For €600 million you could build an actual hospital for you and these country bumpkins in Galway you talk of.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120290993#Comment_120290993

I will not be further addressing any pointscoring on this matter, as we have all been asked to refrain from it.

Sam Russell

Parking is a serious cause of congestion - particularly illegal parking.

The need for children to be driven in the 4 by 4 SUV to the last metre in front of the school lest they get tired/wet/lost on their way to class. Of course, if the class has twenty pupils, that means twenty SUVs trying to park in that last legal spot leaving the other nineteen parents to park illegally causing chaos and blocking roads.

The kids should walk or cycle the last Km.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120290308#Comment_120290308

Apart from the granite making tunnels expensive, the cost would rule it out completely. Even the Metrolink is having cost problems.

So no, no underground for Galway - well not for public transport, anyway.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120291344#Comment_120291344

How do we make them? Because there’s some that will never choose that.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120291537#Comment_120291537

I think you have nailed it.

It is those who refuse to co-operate with any attempt to solve the traffic problem that might inconvenience those that drive cars, and ask/force them to behave in a manner that might go some way to alleviate the congestion.

School traffic is the obvious place to start because congestion is significantly worse on school days.

Still doesn’t answer the question. What do we do?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292056#Comment_120292056

The answer is simple and one that has been repeated ad nauseum i.e. make the alternatives the more attractive option and the car the least attractive option.

This applies for school traffic, commuter traffic, etc

The alternatives being AT & PT.

Making them more attractive has been outlined many times

PT

• Full bus lane network
• Priority at junctions
• High frequency routes (sub 10 min)
• 24 hr routes
• Park n rides on all routes into the city boundary
• Commuter rail every 20 mins

AT

• Full protected bike lane network
• Dutch junctions
• Priority at junctions (bikes through & pedestrians crossing)
• Extensive permeability measures
• Expansion of pedestrianised area in the centre

Making the car the least attractive option

• No on street parking spaces
• Council parking switches to hourly charges
• Annual Parking levy at workplace parking
• Parking levy applied to all commercial parking in the city
• Speed limit of 30k inside city boundaries
• Congestion charge in the inner city
• Speed camera network throughout the city
• Speed controls (humps, bumps, tables, chicanes etc) rolled out extensively

What you will be left with are the following cohorts on the road

1. Those who absolutely have zero other option for whatever reason (disabilities, deliveries, service vehicles etc)
2. Those who will never change regardless
3. Those who need to use the car on a particular day for a particular reason (monthly shopping, moving house etc)

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292412#Comment_120292412

What I would add to that is for public transport - low fares, and reliable service. For active travel - rental bikes over the whole city area.

Another approach would be GoCar type short rental cars - paid for by the hour all included. Works well in Dublin.

Of course, if money is available, a Luas line or lines. Although buses are cheaper, the Luas would be shiny and new, an would be hugely popular. A line from the west to the east, and one out as far as Claregalway. Of course a BRT approach could be an interim solution, and be a lot cheaper and possibly more flexible.

Agreed on the bike share and GoCar. I use both when the occasion rises.

As for Luas, Galway has a long wait before that happens. I'd be stunned to see it before 2050 and truth be told, there's several decades worth of capacity on the bus anyway so it's a nice to have but not a deal breaker. Would I like to see it sooner, sure, but it's not going to happen imho

And millions and millions later, holdouts remain.

What. Then?

And the biggest question of all…

why just Galway?

KrisW1001

It’s not just Galway. The topic of this thread is Galway, so we’re talking about Galway. These solutions apply to all cities.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292798#Comment_120292798

So why aren’t we discussing this in all cities? Where’s the Dublin solutions thread? Cork? Limerick? The National Solutions thread? Why is the focus from all the national anti-car activist posters Galway?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292786#Comment_120292786

This here’s the question I really want answered. What do we do with the holdouts, when the city is 30kph, speedbumped, cameraed, all parking off street, and everyone of them paying 1000s per year to bring their vehicles in.

And yet they still come. And yet they still clog.

what then?

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292841#Comment_120292841

This thread is about alternatives to the GCRR which has been refused planning by ABP.

This means that the GCRR has moved to be a decade away, and will probably need to be replanned before it is resubmitted. GCC has taken the view that until the GCRR is built, it needs to see if the new road solves, or does not solve, the congestion in Galway, it will not attempt other solutions - such as extra, better planned, public transport and active travel alternatives. It even dropped the cycle lane in Salthill in favour of car parking.

Now to many, this approach is just plain nuts. A decade of grid-lock is not acceptable, and many smaller projects will have significant benefits. It is those actions that are open to discussion here.

Remember, not everyone is able to drive a car - either through age, ability, or being able to afford the cost. The GCRR is of no value to those.

So, that is why Galway is the subject of this thread. If you consider a thread on other cities might gain traction, you are free to open one.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292841#Comment_120292841

Dublin already has plans for a tram line extension, a metro and a network of bus corridors and cycle lanes. The number of on-street parking spaces is reducing and the cost of on-street parking is increasing. There are several active bike, eBike and scooter schemes in operation. Almost all of those are being discussed elsewhere on b.ie.

Perhaps the dearth of transport proposals from local or national authorities for Galway is why this thread exists instead of this weird conspiracy theory that you keep persisting.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292859#Comment_120292859

No city in the world has ever “solved” congestion. That’s not the goal because it’s not achievable.

What is possible is offering alternative transport options to people so that they aren’t forced to drive all the time. Some of those options can be complimentary, others will require road space re-allocation. Once those options are there and viable, if people still choose to drive that’s fine. What’s not fine is the current idea from many that any effort to provide alternatives which requires road diets is unacceptable. If those people want to drive, that doesn’t give them the right to deny alternatives to others.

TnxM17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292859#Comment_120292859

Thats easy, let them.

As pointed out by others if the PT options are prioritised then those availing of PT, cycling or even walking will whizz by those who choose to use a car.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293035#Comment_120293035

Why does the Galway one gain traction? There are many who don’t like the M50 and others who have even (rightly) opposed ideas about an “outer M50” that would run from outer towns in Meath & Kildare.

where are those threads?

TnxM17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293335#Comment_120293335

Which ring road when being planned didnt 'gain traction'?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293335#Comment_120293335

To my knowledge the Galway project is the only one that is proposing to be a solution to congestion where those behind it admit that it will worsen traffic congestion and emissions.

The project is being pushed at huge cost in spite of simple alternative options being available at a low cost almost immediately - if there was political will. The council are still stuck in the midset that they will fit everyone in single-occupancy cars which has been recognised pretty much everywhere else to be the entirely wrong approach.