Pittsburgh synagogue shooting

steddyeddy

nullzero wrote: »

Eh, that event is very much so relevant and was a pretty shameful moment in US history. It also involves the fact that those groups support him.

That event is not relevant to anything I had been discussing up to the point where you raised it.
Trump is demonstrably a Zionist, and he's also smart enough to know what his demographic is (his appearances on Alex Jones' show demonstrate this, a platform which purportedly never critisizes Israel either incidentally) and how to pander to them. He's playing both sides at once.[/quote]

He's also demonstrably a Sinn Fein supporter and an Anglophile. Getting the idea about Trump now?

steddyeddy

Berserker wrote: »

Firstly, there's only one side to blame, in your mind. Anyone, who is in impartial can see that both sides were at fault. Secondly, is it not possible that there are decent people of a right minded tendency or are you going to paint them all with the same brush? Is everyone who leans to the right on any issue or anyone who dares question the left, a KKK loving ......

Trump's grandfather was a member of the KKK incidently.

steddyeddy

Trump at SF fundraiser before London bombing.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/09/donald-trump-ireland-sinn-fein-terrorism

nullzero

batgoat wrote: »

Glossing over the event and his "globalist" catcalls... They're both relevant and to say they're not is pretty dishonest.

You're glossing over his affiliation to Judaism and his Demonstrably Zionist actions is more dishonest.

nullzero

steddyeddy wrote: »

Trump at SF fundraiser before London bombing.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/09/donald-trump-ireland-sinn-fein-terrorism

Has anyone here even attempted to defend Trump?
He's Demonstrably a cretin.

Celticfire

nullzero wrote: »

Did Trump himself direct this abuse at him?
Because we already know that racist idiots support Trump, and we also know that Trump is an avowed Zionist.

Careful now..... he also told a joke. Totally anti-Semitic.

Meanwhile real anti-Semites like Farrakhan don't get a look in.

Guys, stop wasting your time. It's the same people and the same shlt all over again. You're only making each other more entrenched in your opinions.

BoJack Horseman

steddyeddy wrote: »

Trump's grandfather was a member of the KKK incidently.

Everyone can be a member of the KKK if photshop deems it so

Berserker

steddyeddy wrote: »

Trump's grandfather was a member of the KKK incidently.

15% of the nation's eligible population, ~5m men, were members back in those days.

Odhinn

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Soros is a self proclaimed atheist

Anti-semites generally define jews as a "race", so George could turn catholic tommorrow and they'd still consider him a Jew. The "atheistic " Jew lowering moral standards is quite a common trope amongst the far right, in any event.

Celticfire

Odhinn wrote: »

Anti-semites generally define jews as a "race", so George could turn catholic tommorrow and they'd still consider him a Jew. The "atheistic " Jew lowering moral standards is quite a common trope amongst the far right, in any event.

So riddle me this, why is it then that if the likes of Soros is attacked in name only with no mention of race or religious background it is then used as an example of anti-Semitism by the left?

Anthracite

Berserker wrote: »

15% of the nation's eligible population, ~5m men, were members back in those days.

Well that's alright then.

Anthracite

Celticfire wrote: »

So riddle me this, why is it then that if the likes of Soros is attacked in name only with no mention of race or religious background it is then used as an example of anti-Semitism by the left?

You know what a dog whistle is, right?

If I attack 5 different Jewish people with Jewish tropes/conspiracy theories, I don't have to point out to the headbangers that 'hey, in case you didn't realise it, they are all Jews!'

Celticfire

Anthracite wrote: »

You know what a dog whistle is, right?

If I attack 5 different Jewish people with Jewish tropes/conspiracy theories, I don't have to point out to the headbangers that 'hey, in case you didn't realise it, they are all Jews!'

I didn't ask about 5 different Jews. Soros is an atheist. Jews as a race is supposedly something that only the far right believe. So how is it anti-Semitic to attack Soros and his policies? He's not Jewish.

Berserker

Anthracite wrote: »

Well that's alright then.

It is when you take the value system that was in place back then into account. I can think of a few things in Ireland that were alright back then that aren't nowadays.

manual_man

batgoat wrote: »

Can you clarify, do you think there were decent people among the Neo Nazis and White Supremacists in Charlottesville? Cause Trump did. There weren't... It would appear that you are the person avoiding facts.

I believe he was referring to all the people who were going to protest either for or against the taking down of statues, and who weren't aware that neo nazi groups were planning to hijack it.

I find it astonishing that any honest informed individual could believe otherwise, since for all the things that anybody might think about Trump, I don't believe there are many that think he is stupid. Understandably opposition politicians and some in media tried to fan the flames of fear for political and personal gain, and sadly a lot of people bought it.

It all goes back to Trump's election in 2016, and the refusal of many to actually try to understand what led the country to that point. Identity politics, pushing equality of outcome(destructive) as opposed to striving for equality of opportunity. Putting the group ahead of the individual (hence fostering tribalism). If the modern-day left hadn't become so corrupt and inherently divisive and destructive, then Trump never would have had a chance. Trump is the reaction, nay the REJECTION, of all of this. People have become so disgusted with what the left has morphed in to, that they were willing to give Donald Trump a chance. Just let that sink in

steddyeddy

Berserker wrote: »

It is when you take the value system that was in place back then into account. I can think of a few things in Ireland that were alright back then that aren't nowadays.

Indeed but lets not defend them!

Odhinn

Celticfire wrote: »

So riddle me this, why is it then that if the likes of Soros is attacked in name only with no mention of race or religious background it is then used as an example of anti-Semitism by the left?

Because the language used is that of anti-semitism and anti-semites. "globalist", "cultural marxism", the notion that he's trying to undermine 'the white race' - all far right beliefs about Jews over centuries.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2018/10/24/conspiracy-theories-about-soros-arent-just-false-theyre-anti-semitic/?utm_term=.84e5ac275bd2

Anthracite

Berserker wrote: »

It is when you take the value system that was in place back then into account. I can think of a few things in Ireland that were alright back then that aren't nowadays.

Right, but we don't say 'It was ok that Father Jimmy was a child rapist because 10% of the clergy were child rapists in those days'.

gw80

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Don’t forget the anti Semitic tendencies in the modern left, particularly in corbyn’s Labour.

Also we should all be wary of the use of words like globalists and even bankers. Often dog whistles. Then there’s anti Zionism.

Antisemitism is universal on the far right and unreconstructed left.

What's wrong with anti Zionism?

Anthracite

Celticfire wrote: »

I didn't ask about 5 different Jews. Soros is an atheist. Jews as a race is supposedly something that only the far right believe. So how is it anti-Semitic to attack Soros and his policies? He's not Jewish.

The problem isn't an individual criticism of Soros, which I guess is valid (although I'm not sure why - he seems to be trying to avoid the sort of disaster that caused the Holocaust he survived). The problem is the context in which dog-whistle attacks on the likes of prominent Jewish people like Soros take place.

nullzero

Anthracite wrote: »

The problem isn't an individual criticism of Soros, which I guess is valid (although I'm not sure why - he seems to be trying to avoid the sort of disaster that caused the Holocaust he survived). The problem is the context in which dog-whistle attacks on the likes of prominent Jewish people like Soros take place.

Soros describes himself as an atheist.
I like a lot of Irish people was raised a Catholic but no longer identity as such so like George Soros I would describe myself as an atheist.
Soros says his parents were uncomfortable with their religious roots and describes his household as "anti semitic".

The issue here isn't race, religion or ethnicity, rather it is people like you, looking in from the outside applying labels to people and getting offended on their behalf.
George Soros has a lot of critics but I've never seen him described as being primarily Jewish, people take issue with his worldview not the religion he never practiced.

Celticfire

Anthracite wrote: »

The problem isn't an individual criticism of Soros, which I guess is valid (although I'm not sure why - he seems to be trying to avoid the sort of disaster that caused the Holocaust he survived). The problem is the context in which dog-whistle attacks on the likes of prominent Jewish people like Soros take place.

But he's not Jewish. Prominent, controversial , yes..... but not Jewish.

Anthracite

nullzero wrote: »

Soros describes himself as an atheist.
I like a lot of Irish people was raised a Catholic but no longer identity as such so like George Soros I would describe myself as an atheist.
Soros says his parents were uncomfortable with their religious roots and describes his household as "anti semitic".

The issue here isn't race, religion or ethnicity, rather it is people like you, looking in from the outside applying labels to people and getting offended on their behalf.
George Soros has a lot of critics but I've never seen him described as being primarily Jewish, people take issue with his worldview not the religion he never practiced.

With all due respect, I suggest you take your idea that Soros is not Jewish and try to sell it to the conspiracy theorists and far right - you know, the people I'm actually talking about. Unless you think 'headbangers' is how I describe normal people with reasonable political beliefs?

Celticfire

Odhinn wrote: »

Anti-semites generally define jews as a "race", so George could turn catholic tommorrow and they'd still consider him a Jew. The "atheistic " Jew lowering moral standards is quite a common trope amongst the far right, in any event.

Anthracite wrote: »

With all due respect, I suggest you take your idea that Soros is not Jewish and try to sell it to the conspiracy theorists and far right - you know, the people I'm actually talking about. Unless you think 'headbangers' is how I describe normal people with reasonable political beliefs?

He's an atheist so that just leaves a racial element for you to consider him Jewish. Is the left the same as the far right in their definition of Jewishness defining Jews as a "race"

nullzero

Anthracite wrote: »

With all due respect, I suggest you take your idea that Soros is not Jewish and try to sell it to the conspiracy theorists and far right - you know, the people I'm actually talking about. Unless you think 'headbangers' is how I describe normal people with reasonable political beliefs?

What the hell are going on about?
I can't be held responsible for the beliefs of other people and their beliefs don't have any bearing on facts, facts which you conveniently sidestep and start waffling on about far right conspiracy theorists and all that nonsense.
How about you address the facts and leave your opinions out of the discussion?

Anthracite

nullzero wrote: »

What the hell are going on about?
I can't be held responsible for the beliefs of other people and their beliefs don't have any bearing on facts, facts which you conveniently sidestep and start waffling on about far right conspiracy theorists and all that nonsense.
How about you address the facts and leave your opinions out of the discussion?

I think you haven't really understood the discussion so I'd suggest you try reading the posts in context again. If you still don't understand, I'm not sure it can be further clarified for you so I wish you well. But just in case it helps, here's where this thread of the converstaion branched off:

Celticfire wrote: »

So riddle me this, why is it then that if the likes of Soros is attacked in name only with no mention of race or religious background it is then used as an example of anti-Semitism by the left?

If there are any especially complicated words or phrases there, I don't see them.

nullzero

Anthracite wrote: »

I think you haven't really understood the discussion so I'd suggest you try reading the posts in context again. If you still don't understand, I'm not sure it can be further clarified for you so I wish you well.

Wow, what a condescending post. I don't agree with you so I should stop posting, nice one.

Celticfire

Anthracite wrote: »

If there are any especially complicated words or phrases there, I don't see them.

Considering you didn't answer my last question I'll ask it again.

He's an atheist so that just leaves a racial element for you to consider him Jewish. Is the left the same as the far right in their definition of Jewishness defining Jews as a "race" ?

What criteria are you using to call him Jewish?

Anthracite

nullzero wrote: »

Wow, what a condescending post. I don't agree with you so I should stop posting, nice one.

I think you misunderstood again - I never said you should stop posting, but you're kind of making my point for me.