Madeleine McCann

tretorn

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

So then that was the last sighting of Madeleine. It was hardly another child because in this case the man carrying her would have come forward.

If the man carrying the child hasnt come forward then chances are he was the abductor.

Is this where we are at at now.

gozunda

Something Else

SusieBlue wrote: »

If he did it at 9, he must have dumped the body nearby. Even if he moved it at 10, he couldn't have gone far, as that's when the alarm was raised.
So it must still have been in the immediate area.
They had no access to smart phones, google maps, or a car.
So why wasn't the body found? And why has it still not been found, over a decade later?

Gerry isn't just accounted for by the Tapas group as being in the hotel at 10pm when the alarm was raised, he was accounted for by other patrons and hotel staff. Unless you're saying they're in on it too, there is no way that sighting could be Gerry.

The timeline as given by the,Tapas 7 is in tatters. Take a look at the independent witness statement if nothing else.

So what? Murders and / or the illicit disposal of bodies occured before the advent of all of those. Gerry went running during his holiday and tbh the town is not particularly big. He's a smart guy by all accounts. I'm sure he could figure it out tbh if he had to.

Btw I'm not saying he did it - the jury is out on that. Is is possible - maybe...

As to the the constant repetition. Let me ask you why hasn't the child been found either alive or dead been over a decade later? Unfortunately we do not know the answer to either of those propositions. We can only speculate. However the constant repetition of that type of rhetorical question in this instance is about as much use as playing squash with a dish of scrambled eggs imo.

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

gozunda wrote: »

The timeline as given by the,Tapas 7 is in tatters. Take a look at the independent witness statement if nothing else.

So what? Murders and / or the illicit disposal of bodies occured before the advent of all of those. Gerry went running during his holiday and tbh the town is not particularly big. He's a smart guy by all accounts. I'm sure he could figure it out tbh if he had to.

Btw I'm not saying he did it - the jury is out on that. Is is possible - maybe...

As to the the constant repetition. Let me ask you why hasn't the child been found either alive or dead been over a decade later? Unfortunately we do not know the answer to either of those propositions. We can only speculate. However the constant repetition of that type of rhetorical question in this instance is about as much use as playing squash with a dish of scrambled eggs imo.

For someone "impartial" its hilarious that you only seem to jump on people who believe the abduction theory. The constant repetition of the "it were the McCann's what dunnit" brigade don't seem to bother you at all.
I'll leave it at that.

gozunda

Something Else

SusieBlue wrote: »

For someone "impartial" its hilarious that you only seem to jump on people who believe the abduction theory. The constant repetition of the "it were the McCann's what dunnit" brigade don't seem to bother you at all.
I'll leave it at that.

Challenging often repeated misappropisms is not 'jumping on people' (sic) and highlighting that is not criticism of the 'people' either. It's not personal no matter how many times you say it is. If you read the comment above and the thread you will see I'm fairly impartial when it comes to such issues. That the same reductionist argument keeps on being repeated as a means of rubbishing all other scenarios is unfortunately all to blatantly evident

As to 'the McCanns wot dun it' you will notice if you actually take a look at the poll - I for one do not hold this as a definitive as do few others.

gozunda wrote:

Btw I'm not saying he did it - the jury is out on that. Is is possible - maybe...

That is how it is.

Perhaps you would address the question asked. Thanks.

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

“I’m so impartial me”

While thanking, agreeing with and supporting posts that state there is NO EVIDENCE of abduction, and only disagreeing with, criticising and selectively targeting the theories which state there is NO EVIDENCE either of parental involvement.

Boom_Bap

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

retro:electro
This is not how things are discussed in a civil manner, and the post above is exactly how a heated thread escalates further.


I think that you've had enough chances now. Please don't post on the thread anymore.

v638sg7k1a92bx

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Anytime someone comes up with what they purport to be evidence of the McCanns involvement has been shot down within one paragraph. Let it go.

But there is also ZERO evidence that she was adducted ,

So why talk about it at all,[/QUOTE]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

What evidence would you expect to find to support and abduction.

For example, if you left your smartphone on your desk at 8pm, went to the toilet came back at 8.05pm and you phone is gone from your desk. There was no security camera and no evidence that your phone had been stolen. Using your logic there was no robbery because there was no evidence that your phone was stolen because nobody was there to see it.

yourdeadwright

Accident happened, parents hid body

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

But there is also ZERO evidence that she was adducted ,

So why talk about it at all,

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

The above applies to both theory's

If you want to go down that road why bother with discussion at all ,

Tomw86

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

But there is also ZERO evidence that she was adducted ,

So why talk about it at all,

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

What evidence would you expect to find to support and abduction.

For example, if you left your smartphone on your desk at 8pm, went to the toilet came back at 8.05pm and you phone is gone from your desk. There was no security camera and no evidence that your phone had been stolen. Using your logic there was no robbery because there was no evidence that your phone was stolen because nobody was there to see it.[/QUOTE]

There would be a hand print that isn't mine or any my colleague on the door leading in to the office.

There may be a partial print on the desk.

Maybe a hair fibre.

That is if the place hasn't been cleaned of prints in that time period....

wmpdd3

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

tibruit wrote: »

There`s so much weirdness around all of this it`s just unbelievable. Payne appears to have been a bit of a "go for" for Gerry. I read a lot of the witness testimony a few years ago and a few things about Payne stood out apart from Katherine Gaspars statement. On the night of the disappearance, a British child protection officer was on holiday nearby and became aware of the story when it broke on Sky news. She went to the scene and engaged with the family and immediately became suspicious of Payne. She was convinced she`d seen him before and informed the local police of this. As far as I can remember, Gerry and Kate would have nothing to do with her afterwards. It`s utterly bizarre.

The other thing that I thought was weird was that earlier in the evening, Payne called into the tennis court to see Gerry and when Payne was leaving to return to his apartment, Gerry asked him to go and check on Kate and the kids who were back at their own apartment. Why did Gerry need to send his pal to check on Kate? He was the last person apart from Kate and Gerry to see Madeleine alive. His wife later testified how he had told her had called in on Kate and the kids and how the kids had looked "angelic and clean". Would you let this character bath your kids?

Also can anyone confirm that Payne owned his apartment in the complex?


Meaning that he knew the area and it's residents well, that he had spend a few weeks a year for the proceeding few years there?

That the holiday was suggested / arranged by him, with the others renting apartments near him.

That he instigated the bathing other people's kids by saying, 'easier to bath them all together' and offered his wife to do it.

Where was Payne the evening before when Madeline told Kate she was crying and nobody came to check her.

Did he miss dinner?

Who can prove Payne was at the table between 8.30 and 10 on on the 3rd?

Payne went to check on Kate when Gerry was out, around 6 pm on the 3rd. Why was this?

Was anyone of the tapas 7's phones checked to verify their where abouts?

Tomw86

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

There would be a hand print that isn't mine or any my colleague on the door leading in to the office.

There may be a partial print on the desk.

Maybe a hair fibre.

That is if the place hasn't been cleaned of prints in that time period....

All those excuses you just made could be applied to the McCann disappearance.

I agree - so why wasn't there any external prints? If the place was cleaned, then why did the McCanns do that?

Tomw86

Something Else

@Mostly Harmless - what is your confidence in Captain Kissinger?

v638sg7k1a92bx

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

The above applies to both theory's

If you want to go down that road why bother with discussion at all ,

Because all other plausible scenarios have been ruled out which is why the police are focusing on the abduction. There is a list of possible scenarios

1. Abduction
2. Murder and disposal
3. Wandered off

2 and 3 have been ruled out which, that leaves us with option 1.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Tomw86 wrote: »

There would be a hand print that isn't mine or any my colleague on the door leading in to the office.

There may be a partial print on the desk.

Maybe a hair fibre.

That is if the place hasn't been cleaned of prints in that time period....

The person could have been wearing gloves and was bald. No evidence therefore your phone wasn't stolen.

This is your thought process when it comes to the McCanns.

Tomw86

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Because all other plausible scenarios have been ruled out which is why the police are focusing on the abduction. There is a list of possible scenarios

1. Abduction
2. Murder and disposal
3. Wandered off

2 and 3 have been ruled out which, that leaves us with option 1.

How have 2 and 3 been ruled out exactly - is that official from the Portugese Police and/or Scotland Yard?

Please post the link

v638sg7k1a92bx

Tomw86 wrote: »

How have 2 and 3 been ruled out exactly - is that official from the Portugese Police and/or Scotland Yard?

Please post the link

"ya ya post a link" aka I can't provide a rebuttal to your post so I ask for a link to information that is already in the public domain.

It is well documented that the abduction in the line of inquiry currently being followed by police. The McCann's have had their formal Arguido status in Portugal rescinded years ago and UK police do not consider them suspects. It is considered highly improbable even by sceptics that Madeline wandered off and hasn't been found.

That leaves you with option 1.

Please "provide a link" if you have an alternative theory and preferably one that is not hearsay to save me having to reply pointing out how wrong you are only for you to dig your heels in more.

BTW, have you found your phone yet?

chicorytip

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote:

What we do know and what is generally accepted by most reasonable is that Madeline was collected from kids club at 6pm and the alarm was raised in and around 10pm which is approx. 4 hours. Not enough time for a body to decompose and to be detected by cadaver dogs, and not enough time to clean up a crime scene, which would be detected by forensic luminol tests and there would be no need for dogs anyway, but leaving that glaring fact aside there is simply not enough time to pull this off, hide a body, get back in time for dinner, tell your friends at dinner that you've just killed your daughter, ask the to keep a secret, create a media frenzy, collect the body that you've stashed and transport it in your rental car 3 weeks later to be dumped while the whole world is watching you, not to mention you're in an unfamiliar country, withstand two separate police investigations in two jurisdictions all the while not one of your 7 friends have come forward to tell the truth in the 12 years since because there is a sinister Government conspiracy theory to cover all this up.

Are there eyewitness statements to verify that she was, in fact, collected from the kids club at 6p.m. that day? There seem to be conflicting accounts in regard to this with some suggesting she had not been seen outside at all for at least the preceding twenty four hours.

Creol1

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Because all other plausible scenarios have been ruled out which is why the police are focusing on the abduction. There is a list of possible scenarios

1. Abduction
2. Murder and disposal
3. Wandered off

2 and 3 have been ruled out which, that leaves us with option 1.

You are leaving out: 4. Accidental death and disposal.

v638sg7k1a92bx

chicorytip wrote: »

Are there eyewitness statements to verify that she was, in fact, collected from the kids club at 6p.m. that day? There seem to be conflicting accounts in regard to this with some suggesting she had not been seen outside at all for at least the preceding twenty four hours.

Was she on her own in the kids club all day, they have staff who work there minding the kids.

Don't you think that was one of the first things the police corroborated???

Seriously.

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

chicorytip wrote: »

Are there eyewitness statements to verify that she was, in fact, collected from the kids club at 6p.m. that day? There seem to be conflicting accounts in regard to this with some suggesting she had not been seen outside at all for at least the preceding twenty four hours.

Yes there are, it was confirmed by creche staff and other parents. They had gone out on boats on an excursion for the afternoon. One man in the documentary talks about Madeleine playing with his daughter on that trip.
You can also view the signout sheet online that includes Kate's signature and a time stamp.

As well as that, the last recorded photo of Madeleine was taken by the pool that afternoon, at circa 2pm, which again was time stamped and verified. So she was most certainly alive, well and out and about until at least 6pm on the day she disappeared.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Creol1 wrote: »

You are leaving out: 4. Accidental death and disposal.

That would fall into number 2 but it doesn't make a difference because that theory also doesn't stack up.

Tomw86

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

"ya ya post a link" aka I can't provide a rebuttal to your post so I ask for a link to information that is already in the public domain.

It is well documented that the abduction in the line of inquiry currently being followed by police. The McCann's have had their formal Arguido status in Portugal rescinded years ago and UK police do not consider them suspects. It is considered highly improbable even by sceptics that Madeline wandered off and hasn't been found.

That leaves you with option 1.

Please "provide a link" if you have an alternative theory and preferably one that is not hearsay to save me having to reply pointing out how wrong you are only for you to dig your heels in more.

BTW, have you found your phone yet?

I agree - Option 3 didn't happen.

Option 1 and 2 are very much still probabilities, no proof of either.

And Yes, I have my phone as I am not incompetent, nor reckless so would not leave it unattended somewhere that it could be taken or accidentally broken/thrown in a fit of rage!

Creol1

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

That would fall into number 2 but it doesn't make a difference because that theory also doesn't stack up.

That is incorrect. Number 2 was "murder and disposal".

Murder does not cover accidental death and therefore accidental death does not fall under number 2.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Tomw86 wrote: »

I agree - Option 3 didn't happen.

Option 1 and 2 are very much still probabilities, no proof of either.

Hang on, is there evidence that she didn't wander off? How can you be so sure? There's no evidence to prove she didn't wander off.

See where I'm going with this?

Something Else

I too am somewhat suspicious of David Payne. He allegedly made those sexual remarks to Gerry previously. Allegedly liked to bathe all the kids. Gerry sent him to check on Kate on the 3rd. Kate and David’s statements completely contradicted each other in terms of what Kate was wearing, how long the conversation lasted, whether he had gone inside or not.
He also didn’t arrive to dinner until 30 odd mins after the others, followed by Gerry’s check.

If any of the tapas 7 were involved in something with the McCanns, it would likely be him.

Yet no police investigation seemed to consider him at all.

wmpdd3

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

He was interviewed, the interview is riddled with ams and ahhhhs.

This is in marked contrast to the videos of him giving talks.

v638sg7k1a92bx

wmpdd3 wrote: »

He was interviewed, the interview is riddled with ams and ahhhhs.

This is in marked contrast to the videos of him giving talks.

Who is "him"?

wmpdd3

Something Else

wmpdd3 wrote: »

He was interviewed, the interview is riddled with ams and ahhhhs.

This is in marked contrast to the videos of him giving talks.

Yeah I’ve read his statement. He certainly seemed all over the place and rambling.

These contradicting statements are all so suspicious.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah I’ve read his statement. He certainly seemed all over the place and rambling.

These contradicting statements are all so suspicious.

Reading a statement from a piece of paper versus being questioned by police.

If we transcribed a conversation with you and your friends it would be riddled with umm and ahhs.

MD1990

Something Else

people going about ontimelines etc.

Thr truth is no one know the exact timelines as it is inconsistent. They had time to hide the body or get help.

The biggest giveaway in the interviews. No emotion at all.
Gerry McCann coukd be a sociopath

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKxBiyVIhiU

7.40 is devious.