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non-Irish .. can they vote for Irish President?

  • 17-10-2018 1:44pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,712 ✭✭✭✭


    been resident in Ireland since 1991 but not Irish - can I vote for president?

    I know I can vote in Local Elections and country elections - but not referendums .. but can I vote for President of Ireland? - did google but havent come across answer


«1345

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,468 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/introduction_to_the_irish_system/right_to_vote.html
    The right to vote is as follows:

    Irish citizens may vote at every election and referendum;
    British citizens may vote at Dáil elections, European elections and local elections;
    Other European Union (EU) citizens may vote at European and local elections*
    Non-EU citizens may vote at local elections only.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,157 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The reason why British people can't vote for President is because we have reciprocal arrangements with the UK whereby they can vote in elections that they allow us to vote in. We will allow them vote for a choice of President when they allow us to vote for a choice of Monarch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,757 ✭✭✭Cordell


    We can't vote for presidential and general elections and referendums, we can only vote for local and European ones.
    But we can pay all the taxes, so at least there's that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,712 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Cordell wrote: »
    We can't vote for presidential and general elections and referendums, we can only vote for local and European ones.
    But we can pay all the taxes, so at least there's that.

    when you say 'we' do you mean the the uk citizens resident in Ireland ... if so yeah I can vote in Local and general elections .. but not referendums (and president elections it seems then)


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,035 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Cordell wrote: »
    We can't vote for presidential and general elections and referendums, we can only vote for local and European ones.
    But we can pay all the taxes, so at least there's that.
    From memory, EU citizens can vote in Irish general elections if Irish citizens are allowed to vote in general election in their home country. Only the UK allows Irish citizens to vote in general elections; therefor UK citizens are the only ones who get to vote in Irish general elections.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    On the basis that Irish Citizens resident in the UK were allowed to vote in the Brexit referendum should we not extend the same rights to British Citizens resident here to our referendums?
    Eligibility to vote
    The right to vote in the referendum in the United Kingdom is defined by the legislation as limited to residents of the United Kingdom who were either also Commonwealth citizens under the British Nationality Act 1948 (which include British citizens and other British nationals), or those who were also citizens of the Republic of Ireland, or both. Members of the House of Lords, who could not vote in general elections, were able to vote in the referendum.[51]

    Residents of the United Kingdom who were citizens of other EU countries were not allowed to vote unless they were citizens (or were also citizens) of the Republic of Ireland, of Malta, or of the Republic of Cyprus.[52]

    The Representation of the People Acts 1983 (1983 c. 2) and 1985 (1985 c. 50), as amended, also permit certain British citizens (but not other British nationals), who had once lived in the United Kingdom, but had since and in the meantime lived outside of the United Kingdom, but for a period of no more than 15 years, to vote.[53]

    Voting on the day of the referendum was from 0700 to 2200 BST (WEST) (0700 to 2200 CEST in Gibraltar) in some 41,000 polling stations manned by over 100,000 staff. Each polling station was specified to have no more than 2,500 registered voters.[citation needed] Under the provisions of the Representation of the People Act 2000, postal ballots were also permitted in the referendum and were sent out to eligible voters some three weeks ahead of the vote (2 June 2016).

    The minimum age for voters in the referendum was set to 18 years, in line with the Representation of the People Act, as amended. A House of Lords amendment proposing to lower the minimum age to 16 years was rejected.[54]

    The deadline to register to vote was initially midnight on 7 June 2016; however, this was extended by 48 hours owing to technical problems with the official registration website on 7 June, caused by unusually high web traffic. Some supporters of the Leave campaign, including the Conservative MP Sir Gerald Howarth, criticised the government's decision to extend the deadline, alleging it gave Remain an advantage because many late registrants were young people who were considered to be more likely to vote for Remain.[55] According to provisional figures from the Electoral Commission, almost 46.5 million people were eligible to vote.[56]


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,035 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    On the basis that Irish Citizens resident in the UK were allowed to vote in the Brexit referendum should we not extend the same rights to British Citizens resident here to our referendums?
    When we have advisory referendums, we will think about whether to let UK citizens vote in them. So far, we've never had advisory referendums.

    When the UK lets Irish citizens vote in self-executing constitutional referendums, we'll think about letting UK citizens vote in ours. So far, the UK has never held a self-executing constitutional referendum.

    It's all about reciprocity, baby!


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,712 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    When we have advisory referendums, we will think about whether to let UK citizens vote in them. So far, we've never had advisory referendums.

    When the UK lets Irish citizens vote in self-executing constitutional referendums, we'll think about letting UK citizens vote in ours. So far, the UK has never held a self-executing constitutional referendum.

    It's all about reciprocity, baby!

    it sounds like a child's game! - "you cannot vote in our referendum's because we cannot vote in yours ... so there! " -

    time for someone to grow up and realise that Ireland is well multi cultural with loads of people who are now well and truly settled and should be allowed to vote in referendums and the next president


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭tobsey


    it sounds like a child's game! - "you cannot vote in our referendum's because we cannot vote in yours ... so there! " -

    time for someone to grow up and realise that Ireland is well multi cultural with loads of people who are now well and truly settled and should be allowed to vote in referendums and the next president

    Why not get citizenship?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    If you've been continuously resident for 5 years, you're entitled to apply for citizenship by naturalisation and it does not impact your UK citizenship, US citizenship or any country that allows dual-nationality with Ireland - you can hold both.
    (It's shortened to 3 years if married to an Irish national)

    Voting rights:

    Irish Citizens: All elections.
    UK Citizens: All elections, except referenda and presidential.
    EU Citizens: European and Local Elections.
    Other residents of any nationality: Local elections.

    Very few, if any countries open their elections to non-citizens and the UK/Irish reciprocity is due to historical reasons.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,712 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    tobsey wrote: »
    Why not get citizenship?


    huge cost!


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,452 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    huge cost!

    Well surely if you want all the rights that come with citizenship then you should be putting your money where your mouth it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭AnneFrank


    been resident in Ireland since 1991 but not Irish - can I vote for president?

    I know I can vote in Local Elections and country elections - but not referendums .. but can I vote for President of Ireland? - did google but havent come across answer

    No, you're not Irish, and never will be.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭AnneFrank


    Cordell wrote: »
    We can't vote for presidential and general elections and referendums, we can only vote for local and European ones.
    But we can pay all the taxes, so at least there's that.
    you can also leave ?


  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 47,268 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    huge cost!

    It's not for nothing, but it's not exactly a huge cost either. €175 application fee and €950 certification fee if your application is successful, so a total of €1,125. Or about 80c per week since 1991...


  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    I am an Irish citizen. Also English as it happens!
    But, currently living overseas, I can't vote at all if I'm overseas.
    That's worse.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    Well, it's not really worse as you also don't live here. It's pretty frustrating to have policies being decided above your head but, I think if resident somewhere long term and citizenship is possible, you might as well go for it so you can fully participate in everything.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,712 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Zaph wrote: »
    It's not for nothing, but it's not exactly a huge cost either. €175 application fee and €950 certification fee if your application is successful, so a total of €1,125. Or about 80c per week since 1991...

    ah , see there now - would they even let you pay 80c per week because thats the only way i am going to afford it at the moment .

    you say "a total of €1,125" like its only 50 quid! :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,712 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    blackwhite wrote: »
    Well surely if you want all the rights that come with citizenship then you should be putting your money where your mouth it?

    well i personally think (and i suppose maybe many might not agree with me) that being resident in a country for a certain amount of time , having a dual nationality Irish/UK wife and 2 Irish children I should be able to automatically be able to apply for Irish Citizenship .. and if a fee just a nominal one


  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 47,268 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    ah , see there now - would they even let you pay 80c per week because thats the only way i am going to afford it at the moment .

    you say "a total of €1,125" like its only 50 quid! :)

    To be fair I do appreciate that even the €175 fee is a lot for some people, so apologies if I may have sounded flippant about it. But what I meant is that while it's not a cheap process in that pretty much everyone has something better that they could think of doing with that extra grand still in their pocket, neither is it priced so extortionately that it prevents a lot of people from becoming Irish citizens.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 39,002 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Cordell wrote: »
    But we can pay all the taxes, so at least there's that.
    Why wouldn't you pay taxes? Is there some co-relation between voting and paying taxes.
    ah , see there now - would they even let you pay 80c per week because thats the only way i am going to afford it at the moment .

    you say "a total of €1,125" like its only 50 quid! :)

    It's not €50 but it's not a massive amount of money either. It seems to be the going rate. FWIW I paid more for my citizenship process in Australia.
    If somebody felt it was necessary or worth it, they'd avail of the option. If they don't, they won't. FWIW, you application is probably as trivial and automatic as they come.


  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 47,268 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    well i personally think (and i suppose maybe many might not agree with me) that being resident in a country for a certain amount of time , having a dual nationality Irish/UK wife and 2 Irish children I should be able to automatically be able to apply for Irish Citizenship .. and if a fee just a nominal one

    I agree with you to a point, but presumably there are all sorts of background checks and stuff to be done for each new applicant, and the fees are designed to cover the cost of that. Even under your circumstances I'd assume that they'd still want to do some checks, albeit maybe less stringent, and a nominal fee may not be enough to cover the cost.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,712 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Zaph wrote: »
    I agree with you to a point, but presumably there are all sorts of background checks and stuff to be done for each new applicant, and the fees are designed to cover the cost of that. Even under your circumstances I'd assume that they'd still want to do some checks, albeit maybe less stringent, and a nominal fee may not be enough to cover the cost.

    yep there is that I suppose


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,035 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Zaph wrote: »
    I agree with you to a point, but presumably there are all sorts of background checks and stuff to be done for each new applicant, and the fees are designed to cover the cost of that. Even under your circumstances I'd assume that they'd still want to do some checks, albeit maybe less stringent, and a nominal fee may not be enough to cover the cost.
    This. The fee is not trivial, certainly, but it's set on a cost-recovery basis. Overall, the cost of running INIS is supposed to be covered by the fees that it charges.

    To an extent, the successful applicants subsidize the unsuccessful ones. It costs more than €175 to process an application, so there's a shortfall on each application that's refused. That is covered by a surplus on the certification fees paid by successful applicants. I suspect the thinking is that people are more willing to pay a larger fee when a successful outcome is certain and they are getting something important in return for the fee. It would be a pisser to have to pay, say, €500 to have your application processed, only to have it knocked back, and have nothing to show at the end of the day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭SharpshooterTom


    Guys I have a question, can duel citizens vote?

    For example, the voter registration forms in Ireland have this question (question number 7):

    Please tick ONE BOX ONLY to indicate whether you are:

    - a Citizen of Ireland
    - a British citizen
    - a national of another EU member state (other than UK)
    - a national of another non-EU country

    https://www.checktheregister.ie/appforms/RFA2_English_Form.pdf

    I'm born and raised in England to two Irish parents although I currently live in the north and I'm just wondering if I ever lived in the south what box would I tick? :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,035 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    When you say "two Irish parents", so long as at least one of them was born in Ireland (NI or the Republic, it doesn't matter) then you are or are entitled to be an Irish citizen and you could tick the "Citizen of Ireland" box.

    You are also a British citizen but that's not relevant in this context, since being an Irish citizen confers the more extensive voting rights, so fo the purpose of entering you in the electoral register that's all they are interested in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Considering the costs of formally becoming an Irish citizen, these costs being zero afaik for successful refugee applications. Will we see a rise in applications from the UK as Brefugees?


  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    EdgeCase wrote: »
    Well, it's not really worse as you also don't live here. It's pretty frustrating to have policies being decided above your head but, I think if resident somewhere long term and citizenship is possible, you might as well go for it so you can fully participate in everything.

    Well, I do live there, I'm only overseas for a short while.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,035 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Well, I do live there, I'm only overseas for a short while.
    If you remain "ordinarily resident" in Ireland, you can keep your name on the register and you can vote. But you do, of course, have to be physically present to vote.


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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    If you remain "ordinarily resident" in Ireland, you can keep your name on the register and you can vote. But you do, of course, have to be physically present to vote.

    Yea, that's what i mean. I was home in May to vote, but this will be the first presidential election I have missed.
    I believe citizens living elsewhere should have the right to vote in presidential or referendum, for a certain period of time. Not dail elections though.
    Once they are gone for over the time period allowed, that right is taken away.
    Also, I believe non Irish living here should be entitles to vote on dail elections & presidential ones, but not referendum, unless they become citizens.
    So Andy, pay up or shut up!
    ( that's a joke )


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