NBA Regular Season & Playoffs 2018-19 Thread

ButtersSuki

Hitch2222 wrote: »

Well given i answered any question non-LBJ related -because who wants to hear that again-, I assume you must think some irony exists in my attitude towards others.

I would ask you to highlight where I've ever said anything close to the sanctimony you've just displayed but I know it doesn't exist plus you rarely take the time to provide evidence to back up any statement you utter so I'll leave you ruminate on whatever new false conjecture you've fabricated this time.

The sanctimony I’ve just displayed? By saying your statement was ironic considering the source? Ok.....

Hitch2222

Thinking Basketball back with another cracker

He also has a podcast, I haven't listened yet but based on the videos I expect it to be good
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/ben-taylor/thinking-basketball-podcast

Hitch2222

Iggie injury apparently worse than expected as is KD. Market has adjusted to the point that the Bucks are now a 7/4 shot to win the title.
I don't think they're that short but I suspect quite a few people took some pretty nice prices on them up to relatively recently.
What a result if Bucks can go all the way, I'm on the lookout for a new team to support, "All Aboard".

LuckyLloyd

Well no Iggie *and* no KD makes it interesting. Just had to eliminate 3 of their top 6 players via injury to eventually make a series competitive.

Hitch2222

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well no Iggie *and* no KD makes it interesting. Just had to eliminate 3 of their top 6 players via injury to eventually make a series competitive.

It's weird because the numbers really suggest that the Bucks are incredibly good even when controlling for SOS.
I think pt differential comes closer to 7.5 per game in the regular season which is obviously not a fluke.

The more I watch them the more that the balance amongst the team looks incredible, offensively Giannis playing point forward with 2 large floor spacers between Illysova, Mirotic & Lopez alongside a combo of Hill, Brogdan, Bledsoe, Middleton.
Defensively Giannis often anchoring and/or covering secondary player -Siakim here- while Middleton picks up the primary offensive weapon-Kawhi now.
It looks very efficient atm.

ButtersSuki

Even without KD and Iggy with the comfort at least 2 games in Oracle I'd expect GS to close this out, and in 5 rather than 7. Portland (or at least some of their players) look tired and Lillard is apparently playing with separated ribs since Game 2 - any rib injury to be fair is very sore and will inhibit movement. Offensively they just look very short of ideas at times.

ButtersSuki

@Hitch, just on the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtersSuki View Post
"I really wonder how much some people know about the game at all at times tbh".

To which you replied:
Just to say Butters, this is not a particularly endearing attitude to have when referring to posters on a forum you frequent but I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say that we're eternally grateful that even in light of our shortcomings you're willing to grace us with your knowledge.


Hitch, I gave examples that qualified my quote there, namely: Wall being better than Curry, Cork's first imminent NBA player, and a reference to he who shall not be named because apparently I am only capable of criticising him despite the fact I've repeatedly and frequently historically said he was the best player in the game at the time. Whatever your thoughts and opinions on the latter, surely even you will concede that the first two are at best, dubious? By presenting my incomplete quote like you have done you have sought to misrepresent my statement as being applicable universally, when the 3 examples I gave provide context - but I'm sure you're fully aware of this.

ButtersSuki

Hitch2222 wrote: »

Thinking Basketball back with another cracker

He also has a podcast, I haven't listened yet but based on the videos I expect it to be good
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/ben-taylor/thinking-basketball-podcast

It's good, yes; but can go a little too deep I suspect for many fans in a similar manner to Dunc'd On. That's not a criticism btw, I actually really like the Dunc'd On Pod.

Hitch2222

ButtersSuki wrote: »

@Hitch, just on the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtersSuki View Post
"I really wonder how much some people know about the game at all at times tbh".

To which you replied:
Just to say Butters, this is not a particularly endearing attitude to have when referring to posters on a forum you frequent but I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say that we're eternally grateful that even in light of our shortcomings you're willing to grace us with your knowledge.


Hitch, I gave examples that qualified my quote there, namely: Wall being better than Curry, Cork's first imminent NBA player, and a reference to he who shall not be named because apparently I am only capable of criticising him despite the fact I've repeatedly and frequently historically said he was the best player in the game at the time. Whatever your thoughts and opinions on the latter, surely even you will concede that the first two are at best, dubious? By presenting my incomplete quote like you have done you have sought to misrepresent my statement as being applicable universally, when the 3 examples I gave provide context - but I'm sure you're fully aware of this.

It wasn't intentionally designed to misrepresent you, I think it's pretty clear from my posts that I attempt to offer a very objective opinion so again you're completely wrong on that front but you can think whatever you like I suppose.

Given you asked my opinion on the topics you outlined, im happy to actually answer the question.

1. I think LBJ has a solid case for the GOAT but I'd still lean on Jordan, he needs something else to get there imo.

2. I think there was a time when Wall may have been perceived as better than Steph, around post ankle issues and Wall averaging a double double but imo it was ephemeral. I'd never have thought it tbh.

3. People are oblivious to how ****e Irish bball actually is, perhaps decent in the 80s but otherwise it's terrible among men, women's game is far better. That said I can see someone having the opinion because the gap between certain Irish players and the rest can be astronomical.
Look at Aidan Igiehon though, he has a legit shot of being the first Irishman ever drafted ergo ever drafted in first round. He was on a billboard at the All Star game in Charlotte this year.
The guy is at a massive programme in Louisville and projected highly so no I likely wouldn't find a claim we'd have an NBA player from Cork in a few years a particular highlight tbh.

Now having answered those questions, the reason why I highlighted it is not to misrepresent you but rather to highlight that regardless of whether I held the exact same opinions as you on a given topic, I would never think let alone say this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtersSuki View Post
"I really wonder how much some people know about the game at all at times tbh".

I think it's infantile and pretty cringe if I'm honest so that's the reason I highlighted it.

ButtersSuki

Just watching and reading some of the Terry Rozier stuff from this week - way to talk your way off the team Terry. How he (or perhaps more accurately his agent/representatives) thought this was a good idea I'll never know.

ButtersSuki

Hitch2222 wrote: »

It wasn't intentionally designed to misrepresent you, I think it's pretty clear from my posts that I attempt to offer a very objective opinion so again you're completely wrong on that front but you can think whatever you like I suppose.

Given you asked my opinion on the topics you outlined, im happy to actually answer the question.

1. I think LBJ has a solid case for the GOAT but I'd still lean on Jordan, he needs something else to get there imo.

2. I think there was a time when Wall may have been perceived as better than Steph, around post ankle issues and Wall averaging a double double but imo it was ephemeral. I'd never have thought it tbh.

3. People are oblivious to how ****e Irish bball actually is, perhaps decent in the 80s but otherwise it's terrible among men, women's game is far better. That said I can see someone having the opinion because the gap between certain Irish players and the rest can be astronomical.
Look at Aidan Igiehon though, he has a legit shot of being the first Irishman ever drafted ergo ever drafted in first round. He was on a billboard at the All Star game in Charlotte this year.
The guy is at a massive programme in Louisville and projected highly so no I likely wouldn't find a claim we'd have an NBA player from Cork in a few years a particular highlight tbh.

Now having answered those questions, the reason why I highlighted it is not to misrepresent you but rather to highlight that regardless of whether I held the exact same opinions as you on a given topic, I would never think let alone say this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtersSuki View Post
"I really wonder how much some people know about the game at all at times tbh".

I think it's infantile and pretty cringe if I'm honest so that's the reason I highlighted it.

Cool.

For a guy who said he wasn't conversing/debating/arguing with me anymore repeatedly you do keep going......on, and on, and on.....

Not engaging with you any further. There's no point. You claim I'm being infantile, yet you lack the self-awareness to examine your own behaviour, posting style, and interactions with others.

LuckyLloyd

The standard of our international teams and their results tells you all you need to know about where Irish basketball is at. No knock on the individual players coaches involved, of course. But it’s a simple objective marker of how good the game is or isn’t.

Legion.

Rough couple of games for Toronto. Definitely left Game 1 on the table and the margin for error against this Milwaukee team is just too tight. Definitely didn't see some of our role players turning to **** in the post season but it is what it is. Hopefully can hold home court somehow, and if it turns into a best of 3 then who knows. I'd still be sneaky confident of keeping Kawhi even if we lose in say 6.

Hitch2222

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The standard of our international teams and their results tells you all you need to know about where Irish basketball is at. No knock on the individual players coaches involved, of course. But it’s a simple objective marker of how good the game is or isn’t.

All true, one thing I think that the women's game somewhat unfortunately has to it's advantage is that the salaries and opportunities available to some excellent female players in Ireland.
They are more comparable to opportunities to the better female leagues in the world. In turn we simply get the chance to have higher quality female players than males.

As an example WIT had a girl from Brittany Griners Baylor team that went unbeaten. She got substantial mins too so those calibre of male players aren't really open to men's league here anymore.

ButtersSuki

Legion. wrote: »

Rough couple of games for Toronto. Definitely left Game 1 on the table and the margin for error against this Milwaukee team is just too tight. Definitely didn't see some of our role players turning to **** in the post season but it is what it is. Hopefully can hold home court somehow, and if it turns into a best of 3 then who knows. I'd still be sneaky confident of keeping Kawhi even if we lose in say 6.

I can't see anyone but Milwaukee progressing in this series barring injury.

For league-wide competitive balance I'd like to see him stay, but I'm not confident he will TBH. Still, fair play to Ujiri for having the balls to blow it up and go for it. What happens if Leonard does decide to leave will be interesting - do they blow it up completely and ship out Lowry etc. and build around Siakam and others or try and trade their way back into contention? Neither will be easy.

The bench have been incredibly disappointing, which is a real surprise considering how deep they've looked in the last 2 regular seasons. Some of them looked afraid to shoot at times.

Legion.

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I can't see anyone but Milwaukee progressing in this series barring injury.

For league-wide competitive balance I'd like to see him stay, but I'm not confident he will TBH. Still, fair play to Ujiri for having the balls to blow it up and go for it. What happens if Leonard does decide to leave will be interesting - do they blow it up completely and ship out Lowry etc. and build around Siakam and others or try and trade their way back into contention? Neither will be easy.

The bench have been incredibly disappointing, which is a real surprise considering how deep they've looked in the last 2 regular seasons. Some of them looked afraid to shoot at times.

If Kawhi leaves I think it'll be a retool. Build around Siakam. Ibaka, Lowry and Gasol are all up next year. Given recent success and growth in stature I think they'll fancy themselves as a good FA destination going forward.

Hitch2222

Legion. wrote: »

If Kawhi leaves I think it'll be a retool. Build around Siakam. Ibaka, Lowry and Gasol are all up next year. Given recent success and growth in stature I think they'll fancy themselves as a good FA destination going forward.

Do you think he's good enough to build around? I think he's obviously come on fantastically well, plays both ends etc but I think at 25, maybe the ceiling is relatively close.

I think he's fine to build around in the short term but although I agree that they look like a far better FA destination now, they might need a little bit of continuity to keep up the momentum.

As you said maybe retool over rebuild. Figure out a strategic plan, we want X type of players to build around LT but stay relevant which will be easier to achieve in the East.

Gasol has a player option which he obviously will pick up, maybe he'll have some value at the trade deadline next year if he plays well and Toronto are out of it. I think yee have potential but are certainly in a somewhat precarious position too.

Hitch2222

No insight into the esoteric stats specifically tracked by 76ers "trade secrets". Theranos had lots of "trade secrets" too

Probably the most interesting take away for me was that 10% of staff for 76ers are in the analytics department. If that's purely on basketball it's high but including general BI, it's probably standard enough.

Legion.

Hitch2222 wrote: »

Do you think he's good enough to build around? I think he's obviously come on fantastically well, plays both ends etc but I think at 25, maybe the ceiling is relatively close.

I think he's fine to build around in the short term but although I agree that they look like a far better FA destination now, they might need a little bit of continuity to keep up the momentum.

As you said maybe retool over rebuild. Figure out a strategic plan, we want X type of players to build around LT but stay relevant which will be easier to achieve in the East.

Gasol has a player option which he obviously will pick up, maybe he'll have some value at the trade deadline next year if he plays well and Toronto are out of it. I think yee have potential but are certainly in a somewhat precarious position too.

I think he is. Hes a third year player, only started playing ball at 17 and suddenly had to take on an increasing role as a scorer that nobody really saw coming. Hes maybe had a bit more of a struggle in this series and the last - but for some perspective hes been guarded by Embiid and Giannis, two of the best, most soul destroying defenders in the league. Not to mention whatever injury he picked up earlier in the second round.

I don't think hes gonna be a top 5 player but hes become one of the most exciting prospects in the league. Hugely improved on the offensive end while still giving you good defence, and the ability to guard 1-4 (and would back him against a lot of 5s).

Also worth noting Masai hasn't had a chance to build the team he wants yet. He inherited the Lowry/DDR/JV nucleus that wasn't supposed to be good, and suddenly ended up winning over 50 games and making the ECF. I do think Pascal and OG are exciting enough to build around - especially if you can land a good FA and put a couple more pieces in place.

Hitch2222

Legion. wrote: »

I think he is. Hes a third year player, only started playing ball at 17 and suddenly had to take on an increasing role as a scorer that nobody really saw coming. Hes maybe had a bit more of a struggle in this series and the last - but for some perspective hes been guarded by Embiid and Giannis, two of the best, most soul destroying defenders in the league. Not to mention whatever injury he picked up earlier in the second round.

I don't think hes gonna be a top 5 player but hes become one of the most exciting prospects in the league. Hugely improved on the offensive end while still giving you good defence, and the ability to guard 1-4 (and would back him against a lot of 5s).

Also worth noting Masai hasn't had a chance to build the team he wants yet. He inherited the Lowry/DDR/JV nucleus that wasn't supposed to be good, and suddenly ended up winning over 50 games and making the ECF. I do think Pascal and OG are exciting enough to build around - especially if you can land a good FA and put a couple more pieces in place.

It's phenomenal progression, similar scenario to Oladipo, just needs the right situation to shine really. I don't know where I'd rank him in terms of prospects tbh, not a sure-fire all star calibre player imo but maybe he will.
I'm a fan of OG too, I was following a blog a while back, I'll have to root it out but the guy using his ranking system had OG a top 5 pick in his draft projections.

It's a pity you guys don't have the cap space if you lose Kawhi, I think Klay would consider a good team where he's the alpha on because i assume GSW can't/won't offer him the max if KD resigns and according to his dad, it's the only number they want to hear about.

Legion.

Hitch2222 wrote: »

It's phenomenal progression, similar scenario to Oladipo, just needs the right situation to shine really. I don't know where I'd rank him in terms of prospects tbh, not a sure-fire all star calibre player imo but maybe he will.
I'm a fan of OG too, I was following a blog a while back, I'll have to root it out but the guy using his ranking system had OG a top 5 pick in his draft projections.

It's a pity you guys don't have the cap space if you lose Kawhi, I think Klay would consider a good team where he's the alpha on because i assume GSW can't/won't offer him the max if KD resigns and according to his dad, it's the only number they want to hear about.

I think barring injury hes an all-star lock going forward. Think he is only gonna get better from here in his first year as a starter. OG was one of those that would have been a lock for the high lottery but for an ACL injury which teams were worried about. Many thought he wouldn't even play his rookie year. Hes had an awful season though, losing his Dad as well as various injuries and now appendicitis on the eve of the playoffs. We could have definitely used him in the Philly series and even more now.

Not having much cap space if Kawhi goes is a shame but its also to be expected really, if you're going to go all in then really double down. I think Kawhi is staying put anyway.

Hitch2222

Legion. wrote: »

I think barring injury hes an all-star lock going forward. Think he is only gonna get better from here in his first year as a starter. OG was one of those that would have been a lock for the high lottery but for an ACL injury which teams were worried about. Many thought he wouldn't even play his rookie year. Hes had an awful season though, losing his Dad as well as various injuries and now appendicitis on the eve of the playoffs. We could have definitely used him in the Philly series and even more now.

Not having much cap space if Kawhi goes is a shame but its also to be expected really, if you're going to go all in then really double down. I think Kawhi is staying put anyway.

Last week if I was asked I'd say yes, if asked today it's a no.

I think given the age + salaries of Gasol & Lowry, demise of Ibaka over the years-bit of renaissance tbf- I think the timeline doesn't quite suit him.
He sees the Bucks and 76ers with a better trajectory imo.

You're clearly more clued in to what's going on with them but if KD leaves, Lakers get nobody and Rockets don't get a little better then a Clippers lead Kawhi team with a little extra help starts looking like a decent situation. LA is where he wants to be, I bet if PG13 had a do over he would have went to LA.

Legion.

Hitch2222 wrote: »

Last week if I was asked I'd say yes, if asked today it's a no.

I think given the age + salaries of Gasol & Lowry, demise of Ibaka over the years-bit of renaissance tbf- I think the timeline doesn't quite suit him.
He sees the Bucks and 76ers with a better trajectory imo.

You're clearly more clued in to what's going on with them but if KD leaves, Lakers get nobody and Rockets don't get a little better then a Clippers lead Kawhi team with a little extra help starts looking like a decent situation. LA is where he wants to be, I bet if PG13 had a do over he would have went to LA.

Totally understand this viewpoint. I don't agree but I'm not going to chew anyone out for it. I just think after next year Lowry (30m), Ibaka (21m), Gasol (25?) FVV (10) come off the books. Dunno who we'd be getting but that level of flexibility + Masai is something I'm willing to bet on.

Hitch2222

Legion. wrote: »

Totally understand this viewpoint. I don't agree but I'm not going to chew anyone out for it. I just think after next year Lowry (30m), Ibaka (21m), Gasol (25?) FVV (10) come off the books. Dunno who we'd be getting but that level of flexibility + Masai is something I'm willing to bet on.

ButtersSuki

For anyone who might be interested, there's an interview with Susan Moran (only Irish woman to play in the WNBA - 1 season) on Off The Ball's podcast show this week.

ButtersSuki

Legion. wrote: »

If Kawhi leaves I think it'll be a retool. Build around Siakam. Ibaka, Lowry and Gasol are all up next year. Given recent success and growth in stature I think they'll fancy themselves as a good FA destination going forward.

I agree on oner level - Toronto is a great city. I have a brother living there who's now a Canadian citizen who loves it and will likely never leave. The problem many American players have however, is it's in Canada - stating the obvious I know but that is a huge problem for them to overcome from a psychological/mental perspective. For many American players, no matter how cool Toronto is, it's not New York/LA/or even lots of other cities and may as well be Hicksville, Alabama as far as they're concerned. They're insular and not worldly wise, many have never been outside of the US except on short trips to play ball and have no experience living abroad. Whilst we'd likely view living in Canada as pretty much the same as living in the US, to some of them it must seem like Mars. If you see how Canada is portrayed on American TV shows it's somewhat understandable. And the weather is an issue for many of them - this point has been touched on by many players, going back as far as McGrady, Carter etc. and up to Lowry, DeRozan and more in between. I heard someone say on some pod some time back there's a reason Drake lives in Calabasas - players see this and rightly or wrongly (wrongly IMO) make calls based on this.

And the differing tax rate is also an issue I've heard discussed as an obstacle. Then you hear players complain about always having to go through customs both ways for away games etc. - these things all add up. There's a quote attributed to Ian Rush from when he played for Juventus where he says "it's like a different country" and I think that's the nub of the issue for many.

I heard Ujiri on a pod earlier this year and he admitted that location was an issue. Once they got guys there, they felt they had a shot at keeping them but he was clear that he knew it's a problem getting players to even consider it as most/many dismiss it as a possible destination outright without even giving it a chance. Take Leonard for example; I don't believe that he'd have gone there willingly (despite how well it's turned out) had he other options. They'll have real difficulty changing this mindset.

Carcharodon

Toronto doing their utmost to throw this away, finish this already. Leonard looks like he is playing hurt also,.

kmart6

For some reason I stayed up watching the game last night. Good win for Toronto to get them into it but couldn't help feel like the Bucks were extremely disorganised in their play, no real structure or something. Thought the refs were letting Toronto away with a lot of contact on Giannis. Considering the foul trouble that Toronto got into too I have no idea why the Bucks didn't attack Gasol more, he got his 5th with around 5 minutes to go in the 4th and they must have only drove at him 2 or 3 times.

Hitch2222

Rebounding will be one of the primary factors for Toronto as a team to overcome.
They're a low-mid level rebounding team while the Bucks are 1st in traditional & 2nd in advanced rebounding rate in regular season.
That coupled with Bucks rebounding 53.7 per game while the closest were the 76ers at 48.5 with Toronto down at 42.9. This is a huge factor in tight games, teams generally shoot a lower% in the post season so this ability to get rebounds becomes hugely important.

The difference between Raptors & Bucks at home was the ease of the victory. The Bucks blew past them at home while the Raptors put in another huge hard performance. It's a hard pace to maintain especially against the freshest team in the playoffs.

ButtersSuki

Watched the highlights earlier this morning. Giannis getting away with travelling again, some really obvious no calls too where several Toronto players can be seen gesticulating wildly afterwards. It takes away from the games for me tbh.

The Bucks are weird. When you see them play badly (like say Game 1 of the Boston series), they can look disorganised and poorly coached, with little by way of options. However, when they click they can look very good. I’d agree with the previous poster (think it was Hitch) who alluded to the ease of Bucks wins v difficulty of those of the Raptors; and with homecourt that puts the Bucks in a really strong position. I can see them taking Game 4 tbh and finishing it at home.