NBA Regular Season & Playoffs 2018-19 Thread

ButtersSuki

Hitch2222 wrote: »

Harrison Barnes 9PPG in playoffs and 0.2 VORP, basically the average NBA could fill that role.

Except I specifically said regular season.

Hitch2222

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Re. your comment he hasn't been the best player in the Finals, he should by most commentators revised view and hindsight have been the MVP in their first Finals win in 2015.

He had one average game in the Finals last year and going into the last game he had a legit shot at MVP before KD went to the next level again.

Fair enough, I remember those series and Iggie carried a massive load on the defensive end. Last year KD was clear cut to me. Either way he didn't get it so hard to know.

What you saw last night however in the second half was a freedom to play that he doesn't always get with KD on the court. Part of what makes him so great as a player and a teammate is he's not a "I'm going to get mine" player, the fact he's willing to cede to KD is part of the greatness.

Covered this already, he's egalitarian no doubts but to win 2 MVPs and not have an attitude of "I'm going to get mine" to some degree seems very unlikely to me. Don't know don't his mindset, futile to speculate imo

To play like that with 3 fouls and zero points at half time and a dislocated finger was incredible, by any standards. As someone who has dislocated more than one finger I can tell you even dribbling a ball standing with that hand hursts every single time you do it, to dribble at game speed, drive aggressively, dribble behind your back is incredibly hard to do just from a pain standpoint alone, and to do it with 2 of your fingers taped together is just an incredibly skilful thing to do.

Again couldn't comment on that, assume they have a fantastic medical team so equating it to your experience is hard to determine. Dislocated fingers are sore but I'd refer to my previous point. Its the most desirable scenario for him given injuries are common in sport.

You talk about him like he's a little better than average at times, and that's nonsense

Now you're making stuff up.

Please read my posts, they're all together, every post acknowledges how great Curry is, he's not as good in the playoffs as he is in the regular season when compared to his peers.
That remains my point, a point which I explicitly and repeatedly made.

The argument of the core 4 having played together so they should just turn it on is a little disingenuous

Nobody said they should be able to turn it on but theyre really good together so it doesnt seem a stretch that they perform well together. Referring to Barnes & Bogut as losses makes little sense as their PLAYOFF -the only thing that matters here- contribution was miniscule at the time.

KD has been a big part of the rotation for 3 years. Losing him would have been a blow mentally, and a boost psychologically to Houston. Not to mention the habits they'd have formed playing with KD over the last 3 years. It's not just as simple as flicking a switch.

As I said, I make an effort not to speculate on the mentality of athletes, too hard to quantify and by in large is a poor position to argue from. I don't dismiss it as a means to buttress an argument but it's weight is limited at best and debilitating at worse.

Houston folded under the pressure. D'Antoni was hugely honest in the interviews, saying stuff like "this will leave a mark". In the same way I said OKC choked up 3-1 against GS in 2016, and GS choked against the Cavs in the same position, this was a choke job. At home, in a game against an opposing team down the best player in the league and who have a weak bench is simply a must win game. Houston were the heavy favourites last night in a game almost everyone thought they would win, and they lost.

Yes they were favs but favs get turned over all the time especially when playing against teams as good as GSW, it's not Harden is a bottler or folded under pressure-again speculative, they were simply outplayed by an excellent team.

BTW, D'Antoni is 0-6 is elimination games in recent years. Harden is 0-10 since 2009.

Largely independent events, imo going back 10 years on Harden is a tad ridiculous tbh given he was a small contributor back then

Easier to respond within I thought.

Gave answer to the Barnes thing within but just to say it seems incredibly obvious to me that talking about GSW not being the team they were because Barnes is no longer there is a moot point if all you're interested in is his regular season performance.

We're clearly discussing playoff contribution and if that was small then why refer to him as reason for why they're "not they team they were". Just seems irrelevant to me that's all

ButtersSuki

Hitch2222 wrote: »

We're clearly discussing playoff contribution and if that was small then why refer to him as reason for why they're "not they team they were". Just seems irrelevant to me that's all

If we're clearly discussing Play Off Contribution then why dismiss Harden's 0-10? Ok, let's limit it to Houston then...it's still 0-7 then, incl. some epic failures - San Antonio springs to mind.

Look at the criticism heaped on Curry this week for not performing to his usual standards in Games 1-5. Harden is getting a pass by comparison. Harden's stats are pretty much all down v regular season too, but I'd largely forgive that if they got over the line. They didn't.

Paul's post game quote sums it up for Houston "We lost. And that's stupid". They know they blew it no matter how many excuses you or others will offer on this.

Hitch2222

ButtersSuki wrote: »

If we're clearly discussing Play Off Contribution then why dismiss Harden's 0-10? Ok, let's limit it to Houston then...it's still 0-7 then, incl. some epic failures - San Antonio springs to mind.

Look at the criticism heaped on Curry this week for not performing to his usual standards in Games 1-5. Harden is getting a pass by comparison. Harden's stats are pretty much all down v regular season too, but I'd largely forgive that if they got over the line. They didn't.

Paul's post game quote sums it up for Houston "We lost. And that's stupid". They know they blew it no matter how many excuses you or others will offer on this.

I'm obviously dismissing 0-10 for similar reasons that I'm dismissing your Barnes point because in 2009 Harden played 20mins per game and averaged 7.7 points?
I hardly need to explain why that has little or no relevance to the perennial MVP we see now?
Cool 0-7 in Houston makes more sense but in the loaded West, I can't recall Harden having a collapse remotely close to that of GSW vs Cavs, Clippers vs OKC or OKC vs GSW. Happy to wrong...

Yes and as my point again explicitly said "he's(Curry) not as good in the playoffs as he is in the regular season when compared to his peers." ie That's controlling for the drop off of Harden in the playoffs because I knew that would come up.

Nobody is giving Harden a pass per se but people calling him a bottler because they lost to a KD less GSW team is silly given that although I have questions about Curry, they're still superior to the Rockets team imo(& opinion of almost everyone else).

Carcharodon

Ladies behave !!! Always some great info on here, let’s not let the internet get the better of us, we can save the battles for Twitter
I think Houston kind of choked last night, maybe choked is too harsh and inflammatory of a word but they definitely missed a huge opportunity to beat the Warriors, it was the perfect opportunity and they couldn’t get it done, if you told me the Warriors had no Durant & cousins, Steph had Zero points at half time and were still tied at the half, I would be shocked. It’s not like Warriors bench players are in heavy rotation, a few have struggled with injuries this year also so if I was a Rockets fan I’d be pissed right now.
It was a fantastic series overall with some great basketball and close games.

If Paul & Rivers spent less time flopping around looking for fouls and getting players in trouble, things might of been different. Not sure if anyone saw Cousions talk trash to Paul from the bench, Paul was doing some dramatic covering of his eye by warriors bench, Cousions told him “shut up you little biatch” he really dislike him.

Right or wrong, questions will be asked if Rockets from office to coaching to roster.

Role on western finals, I would prefer Denver as Portland play is hard but as a fan I love watching Lillard play live, he is also from Oakland so he has a connection to Warriors

Also, whoever recommended “Sprawlbawl” nice job, iam really enjoying it

Hitch2222

Carcharodon wrote: »

Ladies behave !!! Always some great info on here, let’s not let the internet get the better of us, we can save the battles for Twitter
I think Houston kind of choked last night, maybe choked is too harsh and inflammatory of a word but they definitely missed a huge opportunity to beat the Warriors, it was the perfect opportunity and they couldn’t get it done, if you told me the Warriors had no Durant & cousins, Steph had Zero points at half time and were still tied at the half, I would be shocked. It’s not like Warriors bench players are in heavy rotation, a few have struggled with injuries this year also so if I was a Rockets fan I’d be pissed right now.
It was a fantastic series overall with some great basketball and close games.

If Paul & Rivers spent less time flopping around looking for fouls and getting players in trouble, things might of been different. Not sure if anyone saw Cousions talk trash to Paul from the bench, Paul was doing some dramatic covering of his eye by warriors bench, Cousions told him “shut up you little biatch” he really dislike him.

Right or wrong, questions will be asked if Rockets from office to coaching to roster.

Role on western finals, I would prefer Denver as Portland play is hard but as a fan I love watching Lillard play live, he is also from Oakland so he has a connection to Warriors

Also, whoever recommended “Sprawlbawl” nice job, iam really enjoying it

As much as The Truth is the most cringe commentator alive at times I think he makes a good point that Jokic has a solid argument for being the best player in the playoffs this far.
Personally I think Kawhi owns that as things stand but when a 7ft 24 year old post player is averaging 25-13-9, hes in the conversation.

Legion.

Think in many ways the second round might be more compelling than the conference finals. Obviously anything can happen but I don't see either CFs going more than 6.


Screenshot 2019-05-11 at 21.59.11.png

Extract from an article in The Athletic. Karma is a bitch as they say.

LuckyLloyd

No - one should be surprised that the Warriors got over the line without Durant. They were champions and a 73 win regular season team before he joined and were only denied by LeBron’s singular Final’s MVP performance.

Durant is the cream on top, but underneath has always been delicious. I’d say they drop three games absolute maximum the rest of the way now. Houston gave them a great series, really made them dig for it. I severely doubt any of the other remaining five teams can do the same.

Hitch2222

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No - one should be surprised that the Warriors got over the line without Durant. They were champions and a 73 win regular season team before he joined and were only denied by LeBron’s singular Final’s MVP performance.

Durant is the cream on top, but underneath has always been delicious. I’d say they drop three games absolute maximum the rest of the way now. Houston gave them a great series, really made them dig for it. I severely doubt any of the other remaining five teams can do the same.

Portland will be obliterated by GSW if they happen to progress, Jokic is the only player in the West that can give GSW any defensive headaches.
Without Cousins they're light in the frontcourt and Draymond is a fantastic player to switch as is Durant but they aren't use to playing a guy who can back you down from the FT line and if not whip a cross court pass.

That said even though a crafty Millsap shores up the defence to a degree, they lack frontcourt switchability along with a backcourt that isn't dynamic enough offensively to carry a huge load.

If it's Portland it's 4-0 or 4-1, Nuggets 4-2 to GSW.

The numbers suggest that Bucks are the team to put it up to them but imo they don't have the individual talent level to match up with GSW.
They're good defensively and we'll coached along with having a Top 5 player but post season is more about match ups. Middleton vs Klay/Iggie, KD/Draymond vs Giannis, Curry vs Bledsoe.
These are all match ups I envisage GSW more than capable of coming out on top.
Similarly I'd put Toronto in a similar boat replacing Siakaim vs Klay/Iggie, KD/Draymond/Iggie vs Kawhi, Curry vs Lowry/Green.
Again all match ups I envisage GSW winning.

My personal thoughts are that although the numbers or performances don't seem to support it, 76ers have the best chance.

Simmons can guard KD(as much as he can be guarded), Butler guard Curry, Embiid protect the paint.
On pure size, 76ers could cause they issues and without Cousins I think they have the best chance.
Other match ups will simply be a war of attrition where GSW simply have too much fire power against similarly designed teams.
76ers offer something difference low floor-high ceiling scenario where if the rotations can be figured out and Embiid can be healthy and productive they could cause an upset.
Otherwise it's smooth sailing, GSW beat the Bucks/Raptors in 6 and if not, they either destroy the 76ers 4-0 and I'm completely wrong or we have a decent 6 or 7 game series which will be good viewing.

LuckyLloyd

Frank Vogel Lakers HC, Jason Kidd to be assistant.

Hitch2222

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Frank Vogel Lakers HC, Jason Kidd to be assistant.

Happier with that combo than Ty Lue I suppose but I still don't know about Kidd, he tried to run a weird defensive scheme with the Bucks that didn't really work.

He could be there to show Lonzo & Rondo how to shoot

Hitch2222

Not trying to incite anything but ironic this popped up:

ButtersSuki

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No - one should be surprised that the Warriors got over the line without Durant. They were champions and a 73 win regular season team before he joined and were only denied by LeBron’s singular Final’s MVP performance.

Durant is the cream on top, but underneath has always been delicious. I’d say they drop three games absolute maximum the rest of the way now. Houston gave them a great series, really made them dig for it. I severely doubt any of the other remaining five teams can do the same.

Games 1-4 were decided by 6 points or less. Durant averaged 36pts per game (just over 32% of their total points) in those 4 games and you think that's easy to replace? And that's before you talk about rebounds, assists, defence etc. Come on. I really don't think people (on here) are giving them enough credit for that win.

GS are weaker 1-12 now than they were in 2016, the core are all older, Iggy is 35, Steph 31 (and with a history of injuries), Klay and Draymond are 29 etc. and they have an awful lot of miles on the clock with all the Play Off runs. The have a very weak bench who overachieved in G6 but I wouldn't expect that level of production again.

ButtersSuki

Carcharodon wrote: »

Also, whoever recommended “Sprawlbawl” nice job, iam really enjoying it

That was me. Goldsberry's work is very good, and visually stunning (which I guess isn't surprising given he's a cartographer). Interesting guy, very good on podcasts too (he's been on quite a few recently).

ButtersSuki

Hitch2222 wrote: »

Not trying to incite anything but ironic this popped up:

Honestly, is it worth watching?

Angliru

Denver are humming. Lillard anonymous.

Hitch2222

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Honestly, is it worth watching?

Obv didn't watch it myself, just thought a recent referral to Joe Rogan coupled with another recent topic of conversation in Harden was ironic.

I suspect he doesn't have much bball related knowledge

Hitch2222

Angliru wrote: »

Denver are humming. Lillard anonymous.

Joker and Millsap make a nice pairing, limited defensively vs more athletic and dynamic offensive players but watching this thus far it's hard to see how Portland won 3

ButtersSuki

Portland are edging back despite not being able to buy a 3. 3 point game.

Hitch2222

Suspect that's Hoods PCL gone anyway, I think that tends to happen more in instances of extension rather than flexion of the like an ACL.

ButtersSuki

Hitch2222 wrote: »

Suspect that's Hoods PCL gone anyway, I think that tends to happen more in instances of extension rather than flexion of the like an ACL.

Yup, the way he was hit from behind/walked into the screen would suggest as much. Or maybe a medial injury.

Lillard having a mare (from a points perspective).

ButtersSuki

Hyperextension apparently.

ButtersSuki

Bad play by Denver there getting blocked, getting the rebound, and then throw up a horrible 3.

LuckyGent88

CJ McCollum coming up clutch here. Outstanding game and great hustle on that block earlier

Osmosis Jones

Thought our season was over when Nurkic went down, in the WCF now.

ButtersSuki

Big Game 7 road win for Portland, esp. considering Lillard was poor by his standards and they shot so badly from 3. All things considered that's the best I've see CJ play, and Turner came up clutch for them too.

They might take a game or 2 from GS, but barring another injury I can't see them beating them GS.

ButtersSuki

Denver will rue all those missed free throws and some bad offensive decisions. For the team with the best home record in the NBA this season to lose after being up 17 in a Game 7 at home is bad though.

Osmosis Jones

Few fun narratives for the WCF now:

-Dame vs his home town of Oakland, always plays out of his mind and gets a great reception in the Oracle.

-Steph Curry vs Seth Curry

-Last summer KD and CJ got at each other on CJ's podcast when KD told him Portland can't be successful and he should stop worrying about what goes on at the top.

ButtersSuki

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Few fun narratives for the WCF now:

-Dame vs his home town of Oakland, always plays out of his mind and gets a great reception in the Oracle.

-Steph Curry vs Seth Curry

-Last summer KD and CJ got at each other on CJ's podcast when KD told him Portland can't be successful and he should stop worrying about what goes on at the top.

That pod was funny alright - one of the few McCollum pods I’ve listened to as he always drops in some comment about how rich he is, his thread count, his cars, his wine collection or his waterfall etc. - all things to help you connect with your audience.....

It’s the soft half of the draw though to be fair. The two best teams in the West though are/were GS and Houston.

Osmosis Jones

Well, Kawhi joins the very short list of players to have hit a series winning buzzer beater, absolutely unbelievable performance from him in the 4th quarter tonight.