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Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

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  • Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Scoondal


    It looks like the remain option has become really strong in the Uk over the last 6 months

    It is factually proven that more UK voters want out of EU according to the recent polls.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,363 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Scoondal wrote: »
    I agree ... 17.3 million for exit and only 16.1 million remain. DEMOCRACY.
    Actually 17.3 million voted for an exit. Nearly 50 million UK citizens did not vote to exit the EU!


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,368 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    What form of exit did they vote for?

    As my mother used to say, some people are best ignored.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,425 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Scoondal wrote: »
    It is factually proven that more UK voters want out of EU according to the recent polls.

    Link?

    The latest reputable polls I’ve seen say the U.K. wants to remain in the EU

    For example

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexit-poll-shows-growing-number-believe-leave-vote-was-a-mistake-qfn3kclgc

    And that’s from the Times which is pro leave


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,564 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Scoondal wrote: »
    It is factually proven that more UK voters want out of EU according to the recent polls.

    "Factually proven" and "polls" do not belong in the same sentence.


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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,363 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Scoondal wrote: »
    It is factually proven that more UK voters want out of EU according to the recent polls.
    So why the need to troll your views with people who largely think Brexit is a monumental act of stupidity?


  • Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Scoondal


    What form of exit did they vote for?

    Exit from EU. Deal or without deal.
    They can't start arguing now that they voted for "just a little bit out of EU ".
    That is insulting to the intelligence of UK voters.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Scoondal wrote: »
    Exit from EU. Deal or without deal.
    They can't start arguing now that they voted for "just a little bit out of EU ".
    That is insulting to the intelligence of UK voters.
    I think you're leading with your chin there, with statements like that.

    Who campaigned in the referendum for 'no deal'? Can you point me to the literature? Or even a newspaper article from the time?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,273 ✭✭✭UsedToWait


    I hate to see this thread derailed for pages at a time by trolls / attention seekers.

    Just ignore them, and starve them of the oxygen they crave.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,804 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Corbyn still hoping for a customs union with FTAs, and a bespoke single market agreement.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Scoondal


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    I think you're leading with your chin there, with statements like that.

    Who campaigned in the referendum for 'no deal'? Can you point me to the literature? Or even a newspaper article from the time?

    UK people voted to leave EU.
    The UK government then had to carry out the wishes of the people.
    Whether the UK government can get a "deal" with EU or not, that is that government's problem.
    UK MUST leave EU, because the people voted for it.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Scoondal wrote: »
    I agree ... 17.3 million for exit and only 16.1 million remain. DEMOCRACY.
    A referendum on 5 June 1975 showed a 67/33 majority for staying in the EU. Surely by the rules of "democracy" that result should be upheld?


  • Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Scoondal


    UsedToWait wrote: »
    I hate to see this thread derailed for pages at a time by trolls / attention seekers.

    Just ignore them, and starve them of the oxygen they crave.

    Ah boo hoo. The argument can't be won so you cry " TROLL ".
    I can debate according to facts. Have I said something here that is factually incorrect ?
    If you cannot engage in debate, get off the stage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,315 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    bilston wrote: »
    Well I hope that's not what he/she means, because it sounds pretty ominous regarding any hope for an all inclusive United Ireland should it ever happen if that's the prevailing attitude towards Unionists.

    He said DUP voters.

    Not all unionists vote for the DUP

    However I'd agree.. an all Ireland has to be inclusive. If we can swallow Healy Rae voters, we can swallow a few Sammy Wilson voters.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Scoondal wrote: »
    UK people voted to leave EU.
    The UK government then had to carry out the wishes of the people.
    Whether the UK government can get a "deal" with EU or not, that is that government's problem.
    UK MUST leave EU, because the people voted for it.
    So you didn't vote for 'no deal' then. Otherwise you'd have loads of links for me to read about how that was offered as an option during the referendum. Grand so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,368 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Corbyn still hoping for a customs union with FTAs, and a bespoke single market agreement.

    The divisions along party lines and within parties are widening. Very soon, there will be nobody with whom the EU can negotiate in any certainty that they will get the agreement through the UK parliament. There is no cohort of MPs with similar views large enough to push a deal through. I really do think it's either a second referendum or crash out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,804 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Not all the 52% interpreted Leave as "trading on WTO terms", indeed, given the sizeable number of EFTA Brexiteers, along advocates of Turkey and Switzerland, "no dealers" are very much a minority.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,623 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Scoondal wrote: »
    Ah boo hoo. The argument can't be won so you cry " TROLL ".
    I can debate according to facts. Have I said something here that is factually incorrect ?
    If you cannot engage in debate, get off the stage.


    Provide links to your statement that recent polls showed a majority want to leave as you asserted. If you don't or can't then you are trolling, factually speaking.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭hill16bhoy


    Scoondal wrote: »
    Ah boo hoo. The argument can't be won so you cry " TROLL ".
    I can debate according to facts. Have I said something here that is factually incorrect ?
    If you cannot engage in debate, get off the stage.

    "GET ON WITH IT!!!!!!"


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,804 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Enzokk wrote: »
    Scoondal wrote: »
    Ah boo hoo. The argument can't be won so you cry " TROLL ".
    I can debate according to facts. Have I said something here that is factually incorrect ?
    If you cannot engage in debate, get off the stage.


    Provide links to your statement that recent polls showed a majority want to leave as you asserted. If you don't or can't then you are trolling, factually speaking.

    Indeed YouGov has May's deal preferred to No Deal by 65% to 35%.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Scoondal


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    So you didn't vote for 'no deal' then. Otherwise you'd have loads of links for me to read about how that was offered as an option during the referendum. Grand so.
    No. I am an Irish Citizen. Plug in your brain.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,425 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Scoondal wrote: »
    No. I am an Irish Citizen. Plug in your brain.

    Hello there.

    I see you have ignored my reply to you. Not very polite.

    Anyway. Provide a link for your assertions please?

    Thank you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Scoondal wrote: »
    No. I am an Irish Citizen. Plug in your brain.
    Well then I think I have just the solution for you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,261 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    The UK Govn't said it would respect the Ref, that's a choice they have. You are wrong in saying they must do so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    UsedToWait wrote: »
    I hate to see this thread derailed for pages at a time by trolls / attention seekers.

    Just ignore them, and starve them of the oxygen they crave.
    Great Post. I suggest others read it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Scoondal


    Not all the 52% interpreted Leave as "trading on WTO terms", indeed, given the sizeable number of EFTA Brexiteers, along advocates of Turkey and Switzerland, "no dealers" are very much a minority.

    Provide sources.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭Kalyke


    What I dont get is this notion that the result of the referendum must be honoured above all else..the people spoke, etc. But the people may have changed their mind due to being better informed? No, we cant hear you now that you are better educated about the facts. "We know better." Democracy is sacrosanct when it suits the bully. Well, if what the people say is SO important then bloody HELL listen to them NOW! The changing of opinions is what got women the vote and rid of slavery, etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Kalyke wrote: »
    What I dont get is this notion that the result of the referendum must be honoured above all else..the people spoke, etc. But the people may have changed their mind due to being better informed? No, we cant hear you now that you are better educated about the facts. "We know better." Democracy is sacrosanct when it suits the bully. Well, if what the people say is SO important then bloody HELL listen to them NOW! The changing of opinions is what got women the vote and rid of slavery, etc.
    It's basically all about fear that the result would be overturned. It's ludicrous to suggest another vote would be undemocratic. But even so, I don't believe they need another referendum, just a government with the balls to govern. And Jeremy Corbyn needs to get the shepherd's crook. He's the most useless opposition leader I've ever seen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Scoondal


    Hello there.

    I see you have ignored my reply to you. Not very polite.

    Anyway. Provide a link for your assertions please?

    Thank you.

    Okay. I didn't see your link in your original post. So I threw out fake news. There have been a lot of posts quoting me, so your fact based link was lost in that stuff.
    So, still 49% of those asked thought that "Britain" was wrong to vote to leave EU.
    51% thought UK was either right t leave EU or "did not know". (Did not know ??)
    But this poll proves my point. Or am I wrong.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,543 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Kalyke wrote: »
    What I dont get is this notion that the result of the referendum must be honoured above all else..the people spoke, etc. But the people may have changed their mind due to being better informed? No, we cant hear you now that you are better educated about the facts. "We know better." Democracy is sacrosanct when it suits the bully. Well, if what the people say is SO important then bloody HELL listen to them NOW! The changing of opinions is what got women the vote and rid of slavery, etc.

    I think you need to understand that the Leave campaign was based on the British Parliament was to take back control. That means (according to Brexiteers) that Parliament is to be able to take back control of everything except that they cannot go against the vote of 52% of the people in a referendum marred by illegal funding, and stoked by lies and misinformation.

    Of course it also required taking back control of the UK borders (with the exception of the land border with Ireland which will be left utterly open).

    It is quite acceptable to trade under WTO rules, if only they knew what they were.

    Of course, banning free movement of people from the EU will be a big win because that will allow more immigrants from India and Pakistan and other non-EU countries. That will be a win/win for the UK.

    Not having the ECJ or the ECHR overseeing peoples rights is another win - we can reduce the labour protection laws and we can deport anyone we like (or dislike). Another win.

    I think that is quite clear why people voted Leave. (Or at least some of them voted for some of the above).


This discussion has been closed.
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