Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

Scoondal

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

It looks like the remain option has become really strong in the Uk over the last 6 months

It is factually proven that more UK voters want out of EU according to the recent polls.

Seth Brundle

Scoondal wrote: »

I agree ... 17.3 million for exit and only 16.1 million remain. DEMOCRACY.

Actually 17.3 million voted for an exit. Nearly 50 million UK citizens did not vote to exit the EU!

Professor Moriarty

Seth Brundle wrote: »

What form of exit did they vote for?

As my mother used to say, some people are best ignored.

Beechwoodspark

Scoondal wrote: »

It is factually proven that more UK voters want out of EU according to the recent polls.

Link?

The latest reputable polls I’ve seen say the U.K. wants to remain in the EU

For example

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexit-poll-shows-growing-number-believe-leave-vote-was-a-mistake-qfn3kclgc

And that’s from the Times which is pro leave

Leroy42

Scoondal wrote: »

It is factually proven that more UK voters want out of EU according to the recent polls.

"Factually proven" and "polls" do not belong in the same sentence.

Seth Brundle

Scoondal wrote: »

It is factually proven that more UK voters want out of EU according to the recent polls.

So why the need to troll your views with people who largely think Brexit is a monumental act of stupidity?

Scoondal

Seth Brundle wrote: »

What form of exit did they vote for?

Exit from EU. Deal or without deal.
They can't start arguing now that they voted for "just a little bit out of EU ".
That is insulting to the intelligence of UK voters.

prawnsambo

Scoondal wrote: »

Exit from EU. Deal or without deal.
They can't start arguing now that they voted for "just a little bit out of EU ".
That is insulting to the intelligence of UK voters.

I think you're leading with your chin there, with statements like that.

Who campaigned in the referendum for 'no deal'? Can you point me to the literature? Or even a newspaper article from the time?

UsedToWait

I hate to see this thread derailed for pages at a time by trolls / attention seekers.

Just ignore them, and starve them of the oxygen they crave.

An Ciarraioch

Corbyn still hoping for a customs union with FTAs, and a bespoke single market agreement.

Scoondal

prawnsambo wrote: »

I think you're leading with your chin there, with statements like that.

Who campaigned in the referendum for 'no deal'? Can you point me to the literature? Or even a newspaper article from the time?

UK people voted to leave EU.
The UK government then had to carry out the wishes of the people.
Whether the UK government can get a "deal" with EU or not, that is that government's problem.
UK MUST leave EU, because the people voted for it.

marno21

Scoondal wrote: »

I agree ... 17.3 million for exit and only 16.1 million remain. DEMOCRACY.

A referendum on 5 June 1975 showed a 67/33 majority for staying in the EU. Surely by the rules of "democracy" that result should be upheld?

Scoondal

UsedToWait wrote: »

I hate to see this thread derailed for pages at a time by trolls / attention seekers.

Just ignore them, and starve them of the oxygen they crave.

Ah boo hoo. The argument can't be won so you cry " TROLL ".
I can debate according to facts. Have I said something here that is factually incorrect ?
If you cannot engage in debate, get off the stage.

lawred2

bilston wrote: »

Well I hope that's not what he/she means, because it sounds pretty ominous regarding any hope for an all inclusive United Ireland should it ever happen if that's the prevailing attitude towards Unionists.

He said DUP voters.

Not all unionists vote for the DUP

However I'd agree.. an all Ireland has to be inclusive. If we can swallow Healy Rae voters, we can swallow a few Sammy Wilson voters.

prawnsambo

Scoondal wrote: »

UK people voted to leave EU.
The UK government then had to carry out the wishes of the people.
Whether the UK government can get a "deal" with EU or not, that is that government's problem.
UK MUST leave EU, because the people voted for it.

So you didn't vote for 'no deal' then. Otherwise you'd have loads of links for me to read about how that was offered as an option during the referendum. Grand so.

Professor Moriarty

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Corbyn still hoping for a customs union with FTAs, and a bespoke single market agreement.

The divisions along party lines and within parties are widening. Very soon, there will be nobody with whom the EU can negotiate in any certainty that they will get the agreement through the UK parliament. There is no cohort of MPs with similar views large enough to push a deal through. I really do think it's either a second referendum or crash out.

An Ciarraioch

Not all the 52% interpreted Leave as "trading on WTO terms", indeed, given the sizeable number of EFTA Brexiteers, along advocates of Turkey and Switzerland, "no dealers" are very much a minority.

Enzokk

Scoondal wrote: »

Ah boo hoo. The argument can't be won so you cry " TROLL ".
I can debate according to facts. Have I said something here that is factually incorrect ?
If you cannot engage in debate, get off the stage.

Provide links to your statement that recent polls showed a majority want to leave as you asserted. If you don't or can't then you are trolling, factually speaking.

hill16bhoy

Scoondal wrote: »

Ah boo hoo. The argument can't be won so you cry " TROLL ".
I can debate according to facts. Have I said something here that is factually incorrect ?
If you cannot engage in debate, get off the stage.

"GET ON WITH IT!!!!!!"

An Ciarraioch

Enzokk wrote: »

Scoondal wrote: »

Ah boo hoo. The argument can't be won so you cry " TROLL ".
I can debate according to facts. Have I said something here that is factually incorrect ?
If you cannot engage in debate, get off the stage.

Provide links to your statement that recent polls showed a majority want to leave as you asserted. If you don't or can't then you are trolling, factually speaking.

Indeed YouGov has May's deal preferred to No Deal by 65% to 35%.

Scoondal

prawnsambo wrote: »

So you didn't vote for 'no deal' then. Otherwise you'd have loads of links for me to read about how that was offered as an option during the referendum. Grand so.

No. I am an Irish Citizen. Plug in your brain.

Beechwoodspark

Scoondal wrote: »

No. I am an Irish Citizen. Plug in your brain.

Hello there.

I see you have ignored my reply to you. Not very polite.

Anyway. Provide a link for your assertions please?

Thank you.

prawnsambo

Scoondal wrote: »

No. I am an Irish Citizen. Plug in your brain.

Well then I think I have just the solution for you.

Water John

The UK Govn't said it would respect the Ref, that's a choice they have. You are wrong in saying they must do so.

WinnyThePoo

UsedToWait wrote: »

I hate to see this thread derailed for pages at a time by trolls / attention seekers.

Just ignore them, and starve them of the oxygen they crave.

Great Post. I suggest others read it.

Scoondal

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Not all the 52% interpreted Leave as "trading on WTO terms", indeed, given the sizeable number of EFTA Brexiteers, along advocates of Turkey and Switzerland, "no dealers" are very much a minority.

Provide sources.

Kalyke

What I dont get is this notion that the result of the referendum must be honoured above all else..the people spoke, etc. But the people may have changed their mind due to being better informed? No, we cant hear you now that you are better educated about the facts. "We know better." Democracy is sacrosanct when it suits the bully. Well, if what the people say is SO important then bloody HELL listen to them NOW! The changing of opinions is what got women the vote and rid of slavery, etc.

prawnsambo

Kalyke wrote: »

What I dont get is this notion that the result of the referendum must be honoured above all else..the people spoke, etc. But the people may have changed their mind due to being better informed? No, we cant hear you now that you are better educated about the facts. "We know better." Democracy is sacrosanct when it suits the bully. Well, if what the people say is SO important then bloody HELL listen to them NOW! The changing of opinions is what got women the vote and rid of slavery, etc.

It's basically all about fear that the result would be overturned. It's ludicrous to suggest another vote would be undemocratic. But even so, I don't believe they need another referendum, just a government with the balls to govern. And Jeremy Corbyn needs to get the shepherd's crook. He's the most useless opposition leader I've ever seen.

Scoondal

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Hello there.

I see you have ignored my reply to you. Not very polite.

Anyway. Provide a link for your assertions please?

Thank you.

Okay. I didn't see your link in your original post. So I threw out fake news. There have been a lot of posts quoting me, so your fact based link was lost in that stuff.
So, still 49% of those asked thought that "Britain" was wrong to vote to leave EU.
51% thought UK was either right t leave EU or "did not know". (Did not know ??)
But this poll proves my point. Or am I wrong.

Sam Russell

Kalyke wrote: »

What I dont get is this notion that the result of the referendum must be honoured above all else..the people spoke, etc. But the people may have changed their mind due to being better informed? No, we cant hear you now that you are better educated about the facts. "We know better." Democracy is sacrosanct when it suits the bully. Well, if what the people say is SO important then bloody HELL listen to them NOW! The changing of opinions is what got women the vote and rid of slavery, etc.

I think you need to understand that the Leave campaign was based on the British Parliament was to take back control. That means (according to Brexiteers) that Parliament is to be able to take back control of everything except that they cannot go against the vote of 52% of the people in a referendum marred by illegal funding, and stoked by lies and misinformation.

Of course it also required taking back control of the UK borders (with the exception of the land border with Ireland which will be left utterly open).

It is quite acceptable to trade under WTO rules, if only they knew what they were.

Of course, banning free movement of people from the EU will be a big win because that will allow more immigrants from India and Pakistan and other non-EU countries. That will be a win/win for the UK.

Not having the ECJ or the ECHR overseeing peoples rights is another win - we can reduce the labour protection laws and we can deport anyone we like (or dislike). Another win.

I think that is quite clear why people voted Leave. (Or at least some of them voted for some of the above).