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Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

Rhineshark

kuro68k wrote: »

The British government is going to take it right to the cliff edge and hope that someone else compromises. Of course they have their excuses already lined up if no-one does, only real question is who they will blame.

1. The EU
2. Remainers
3. Ireland
4. Corbyn

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Professor Moriarty

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Corbyn still hoping for a customs union with FTAs, and a bespoke single market agreement.

The divisions along party lines and within parties are widening. Very soon, there will be nobody with whom the EU can negotiate in any certainty that they will get the agreement through the UK parliament. There is no cohort of MPs with similar views large enough to push a deal through. I really do think it's either a second referendum or crash out.

prawnsambo

Scoondal wrote: »

UK people voted to leave EU.
The UK government then had to carry out the wishes of the people.
Whether the UK government can get a "deal" with EU or not, that is that government's problem.
UK MUST leave EU, because the people voted for it.

So you didn't vote for 'no deal' then. Otherwise you'd have loads of links for me to read about how that was offered as an option during the referendum. Grand so.

lawred2

bilston wrote: »

Well I hope that's not what he/she means, because it sounds pretty ominous regarding any hope for an all inclusive United Ireland should it ever happen if that's the prevailing attitude towards Unionists.

He said DUP voters.

Not all unionists vote for the DUP

However I'd agree.. an all Ireland has to be inclusive. If we can swallow Healy Rae voters, we can swallow a few Sammy Wilson voters.

Scoondal

UsedToWait wrote: »

I hate to see this thread derailed for pages at a time by trolls / attention seekers.

Just ignore them, and starve them of the oxygen they crave.

Ah boo hoo. The argument can't be won so you cry " TROLL ".
I can debate according to facts. Have I said something here that is factually incorrect ?
If you cannot engage in debate, get off the stage.

marno21

Scoondal wrote: »

I agree ... 17.3 million for exit and only 16.1 million remain. DEMOCRACY.

A referendum on 5 June 1975 showed a 67/33 majority for staying in the EU. Surely by the rules of "democracy" that result should be upheld?

Scoondal

prawnsambo wrote: »

I think you're leading with your chin there, with statements like that.

Who campaigned in the referendum for 'no deal'? Can you point me to the literature? Or even a newspaper article from the time?

UK people voted to leave EU.
The UK government then had to carry out the wishes of the people.
Whether the UK government can get a "deal" with EU or not, that is that government's problem.
UK MUST leave EU, because the people voted for it.

An Ciarraioch

Corbyn still hoping for a customs union with FTAs, and a bespoke single market agreement.

UsedToWait

I hate to see this thread derailed for pages at a time by trolls / attention seekers.

Just ignore them, and starve them of the oxygen they crave.

prawnsambo

Scoondal wrote: »

Exit from EU. Deal or without deal.
They can't start arguing now that they voted for "just a little bit out of EU ".
That is insulting to the intelligence of UK voters.

I think you're leading with your chin there, with statements like that.

Who campaigned in the referendum for 'no deal'? Can you point me to the literature? Or even a newspaper article from the time?

Scoondal

Seth Brundle wrote: »

What form of exit did they vote for?

Exit from EU. Deal or without deal.
They can't start arguing now that they voted for "just a little bit out of EU ".
That is insulting to the intelligence of UK voters.

Seth Brundle

Scoondal wrote: »

It is factually proven that more UK voters want out of EU according to the recent polls.

So why the need to troll your views with people who largely think Brexit is a monumental act of stupidity?

Leroy42

Scoondal wrote: »

It is factually proven that more UK voters want out of EU according to the recent polls.

"Factually proven" and "polls" do not belong in the same sentence.

Beechwoodspark

Scoondal wrote: »

It is factually proven that more UK voters want out of EU according to the recent polls.

Link?

The latest reputable polls I’ve seen say the U.K. wants to remain in the EU

For example

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexit-poll-shows-growing-number-believe-leave-vote-was-a-mistake-qfn3kclgc

And that’s from the Times which is pro leave

Professor Moriarty

Seth Brundle wrote: »

What form of exit did they vote for?

As my mother used to say, some people are best ignored.

Seth Brundle

Scoondal wrote: »

I agree ... 17.3 million for exit and only 16.1 million remain. DEMOCRACY.

Actually 17.3 million voted for an exit. Nearly 50 million UK citizens did not vote to exit the EU!

Scoondal

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

It looks like the remain option has become really strong in the Uk over the last 6 months

It is factually proven that more UK voters want out of EU according to the recent polls.

Seth Brundle

Scoondal wrote: »

I'm trying to simplify a fact.
The people of U.K. have voted to leave E.U..
That is a fact, not a simplistic slogan.
Do you accept democracy ?

What form of exit did they vote for?

prawnsambo

Scoondal wrote: »

I agree ... 17.3 million for exit and only 16.1 million remain. DEMOCRACY.

You spelled stupidity wrong.

Professor Moriarty

Water John wrote: »

Remember that it's a problem in the UK too. The Govn't usually represents 36% or less of the voters.

Indeed, but NI is very different. For a start, the devolved government hasn't sat for nearly two years. Because of that and because of SF's abstentionist policy, the only voices that people in GB hear are those of the DUP. Throw in the fact that the Tories need the DUP and you get the misrepresentation that Foster is the leader of NI and speaks for its people. She doesn't, she's just a party leader whose vote has dwindled to 31%. She leads and represents nobody but the DUP.

Scoondal

Just because lazy " Remainers " didn't bother their fat arses to vote, now means that those lazy people's opinions have now become irrelevant.
Now go back to watching your english football.

Beechwoodspark

It looks like the remain option has become really strong in the Uk over the last 6 months

tuxy

Water John wrote: »

Remember that it's a problem in the UK too. The Govn't usually represents 36% or less of the voters.

The public voted for this in 2011 it's the will of the people to be under represented in parliament.

Scoondal

bilston wrote: »

The stated opinion of 17.3 million citizens on one given day, as opposed to the opinion of the 16.1 million citizens on one particular given whose opinion now is completely irrelevant.

I'm also fed up with the term "the will of the people"...no it's the will of some of the people.

While I'm here a guy from You Gov was on the radio about an hour ago commenting on a You Gov poll which showed that out of 20,000 respondents across every GB constituency, out of three choices, Remain, May Deal and No Deal, 600 seats gave Remain as first preference. The BBC presenter started the interview by saying something along the lines of...let's ignore the Remain option as it's irrelevant...no it's not fecking irrelevant, it's common fecking sense...

I agree ... 17.3 million for exit and only 16.1 million remain. DEMOCRACY.

Water John

Remember that it's a problem in the UK too. The Govn't usually represents 36% or less of the voters.

tuxy

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Even more applicable would be "The 31% of people in Northern Ireland who would vote for us today want...".

Sure the Brits will love to hear that, 67% of them voted to keep the first past the post voting system in 2011.

Professor Moriarty

It's very interesting to watch Foster, Wilson, Dodds etc. being interviewed by Sky, C4, BBC etc. The average voter in GB hasn't a clue about NI politics so when the DUP say "The people of Northern Ireland want...." they are being extremely disingenuous.

Instead they should say "The 36% of people in Northern Ireland who voted for us in the last election want...".

Even more applicable would be "The 31% of people in Northern Ireland who would vote for us today want...".

Infini

bilston wrote: »

Who are the village idiots?

I would point at the likes of the DUP (the party itself NOT the people who vote for them) who helped caused this mess by supporting a position that was both self defeating to their own union, allowed themselves to be used by dodgy interests to funnel campaign money for Brexit, have absolutely no interest in the common good and are out for their own narrow ideological interests and are more than happy to shítetalk with crap like "blood red lines" instead of respect the will of the clear majority of NI and the business interests. They don't even have any damn integrity look at the whole "ash for cash" scandal. Running from the responsibility of their own making and blame others. They'd also be the ones who still throw tantrums if a border poll were to come about and NI voted for reunification so yeah "village idiots" is apt term for them as they refuse reality and logical thinking. I have no issue with unionists I would actually like to see people working together I just would rather they take those who CANNOT accept that and would ruin things for everyone just go somewhere else if thats their attitude to refusing to face reality rather than ruin things for everyone else.

I don't blame unionists up there for voting the way they do I don't honestly give a damn what religion or background they have because its irrelevant to me. Idiots are a universal bane of this existence in every part of the world and the worst ones are those who are in leadership positions and shirk responsibility for narrow minded ideology. Brexit has been such a mess from the beginning because idiots from both the DUP and Conservatives have been shown as incompetent failures who have no interest beyond their blinkered ideology and they're gonna ruin things for everyone around them unless Brexit gets cancelled.

Tell me how

bilston wrote: »

Well I hope that's not what he/she means, because it sounds pretty ominous regarding any hope for an all inclusive United Ireland should it ever happen if that's the prevailing attitude towards Unionists.

Maybe not prevailing but what are unionists, and specifically the DUP themselves doing to promote inter-community acceptance?

They won't even represent the wishes of the majority of their community.

bilston

tuxy wrote: »

DUP voters

Well I hope that's not what he/she means, because it sounds pretty ominous regarding any hope for an all inclusive United Ireland should it ever happen if that's the prevailing attitude towards Unionists.

tuxy

bilston wrote: »

Who are the village idiots?

DUP voters