ASTI ballot

Bobtheman

SligoBrewer wrote: »

The vast majority of NQTs don't want to take the crumbs, thanks.

We only have your word for that. 1000 members departed the union and in my own school you can't get them to walk 2 minutes to a meeting.
The votes also indicate otherwise.
I would suggest you write to SC and ask them to survey NQTs . I tried. Got nowhere. I was prepared several times to go out for weeks on strike. I'm no longer following the grand old Duke...

Bobtheman

evolving_doors wrote: »

You can abandon hope but it shouldn't mean that the principle you still believe in should be abandoned.

It's hard to be principled for NQTs when they don't seem to care. I wonder if the world would be a better place if we left the so called oppressed figure out they are oppressed without Irish times/guardian readers pontificating all the time !

Bobtheman

I really wish it were different out there but after a decade of involvement in Asti I have very little time​ for those on SC bar the continuity fight back crowd. It's full of union careerists. The membership is worse.
Time to hibernate and look out for a star in the east. Perhaps we might finally or eventually get the leaders or members we need.
. I realise the usual five suspects/ Pharisees will condemn me for speaking the truth and not letting pied pipers lead them astray again. Telling how few if any NQTs post here ? I do support pay equality but only when presented with a plan to strike for a few weeks. Everything else is a joke and bound to failure and you lot know it.
I shall say no more

SligoBrewer

How can you support Fightback but advocate a Yes vote publicly online?

There are loads of LPTs who post here, myself included.

deiseindublin

Dying to know who the usual five suspect are!

joebloggs32

Im in the TUI and for every NQT who was against the deal in my school there was one reluctantly accepting it.
Why?
The deal gave different things to each of them.
Some who are due a CID said they couldn't afgord to jeopardise it. Others were at the point of scale where the increments were skipping.
Aonther who got a CID this summer voted no but saud if this was 12 moths ago would have voted yes.
Others seemed to not have a clue on what they were voting on (we had a meeting in the school but only 3 out of approx 15 NQTs showed up).
As a pre 2011 teacher I too wanted to know what they wanted but unfortunately we really couldn't rely on such a small group to guide us.

evolving_doors

Bobtheman wrote: »

It's hard to be principled for NQTs when they don't seem to care. I wonder if the world would be a better place if we left the so called oppressed figure out they are oppressed without Irish times/guardian readers pontificating all the time !

Your principles are still your principles regardless of who else cares or doesn't care. It's not about NQTs, it's about the profession as a whole. If it's just about basing a decision to vote on the NQTs caring or not caring then divide and conquer wins.

SligoBrewer

deiseindublin wrote: »

Dying to know who the usual five suspect are!

They've blown their cover with the three irate posts in a row followed by somehow trying to side with Fightback.

joebloggs32 wrote: »

Im in the TUI and for every NQT who was against the deal in my school there was one reluctantly accepting it.
Why?
The deal gave different things to each of them.
Some who are due a CID said they couldn't afgord to jeopardise it. Others were at the point of scale where the increments were skipping.
Aonther who got a CID this summer voted no but saud if this was 12 moths ago would have voted yes.
Others seemed to not have a clue on what they were voting on (we had a meeting in the school but only 3 out of approx 15 NQTs showed up).
As a pre 2011 teacher I too wanted to know what they wanted but unfortunately we really couldn't rely on such a small group to guide us.

Only approximately 12.5% of LPTs will be due CIDs this year, and not all of them automatically want the CID over the Equal Pay. LPTs accepting this are very much in the minority.

Bobtheman

Bottom line last dispute a cave in occurred after what two days ? I know from SC that there were doubts about that strategy. Would have been better if we had five one day strikes (perhaps) than something that was open ended. It was the open ended nature of things that scared your typical​ spineless teacher. The government rode us. They got no real fight back.
Work within agreements. My advice.
Otherwise you are setting yourselves up. Take over the branches is my advice to NQTs. But if your typical NQT who was has grown up in a world of individual narcissim and won't go to a school union meeting-best of luck.

SligoBrewer

Bobtheman wrote: »

Bottom line last dispute a cave in occurred after what two days ? I know from SC that there were doubts about that strategy. Would have been better if we had five one day strikes (perhaps) than something that was open ended. It was the open ended nature of things that scared your typical​ spineless teacher. The government rode us. They got no real fight back.
Work within agreements. My advice.
Otherwise you are setting yourselves up. Take over the branches is my advice to NQTs. But if your typical NQT who was has grown up in a world of individual narcissim and won't go to a school union meeting-best of luck.

7 1 day strikes were planned, but we were locked out because of S&S.

acequion

Bobtheman wrote: »

I really wish it were different out there but after a decade of involvement in Asti I have very little time​ for those on SC bar the continuity fight back crowd. It's full of union careerists. The membership is worse.
Time to hibernate and look out for a star in the east. Perhaps we might finally or eventually get the leaders or members we need.
. I realise the usual five suspects/ Pharisees will condemn me for speaking the truth and not letting pied pipers lead them astray again. Telling how few if any NQTs post here ? I do support pay equality but only when presented with a plan to strike for a few weeks. Everything else is a joke and bound to failure and you lot know it.
I shall say no more

You obviously have an issue with the union and fair enough. Irish trade unions are hardly fit for purpose at times and ICTU is a joke.

However, does that mean you side with the Government? With the likes of Fine Gael who have a long and sterling reputation of anti PS bias? Because if you vote Yes it means you vote fairly and squarely with them. Although not even fairly as the case may be as they want a two tier pay structure, eventually barely above minimum wage public employees.

So why not forget all the permutations of strikes, failed past strikes, grand old duke of york etc etc plus LPT greed,indifference, confusion, whatever it might be and vote for a principle,the principle of equal pay,the principle of decent pay!

The Government love to muddy the waters, the Government love to set us all against each other, so sometimes the best response is single minded stubbornness. I am proud that I have voted No to every one of their anti worker, anti equality "deals." And I will happily vote No to this too, though I have no idea where that No will lead us. But one thing I am sure of. The fight for pay equality hasn't gone away because enough people keep saying no. Once people say yes, yes to pay inequality, yes to anti workers deals, whatever the crumbs on offer, however bad the unions might be, then the fight will be dead and buried and pay apartheid, among other horrors, will be here to stay.

For god sake, forget your issue with the unions and vote NO!!

acequion

joebloggs32 wrote: »

Im in the TUI and for every NQT who was against the deal in my school there was one reluctantly accepting it.
Why?
The deal gave different things to each of them.
Some who are due a CID said they couldn't afgord to jeopardise it. Others were at the point of scale where the increments were skipping.
Aonther who got a CID this summer voted no but saud if this was 12 moths ago would have voted yes.
Others seemed to not have a clue on what they were voting on (we had a meeting in the school but only 3 out of approx 15 NQTs showed up).
As a pre 2011 teacher I too wanted to know what they wanted but unfortunately we really couldn't rely on such a small group to guide us.

I'm sorry but I can't see how any of that in any way justifies the TUI Yes,if that's what you're trying to do.

I get that you're giving us examples of why people voted Yes but they are all examples of selfish mefeinism. The core principle of trade unionism is not what good for me, me, me, my CID, my increment, but the common good. And I'm not suggesting that you're not a good trade unionist joebloggs, but those selfish people are not worth making excuses for, no more than the 1000 or so who left ASTI during the dispute. We've all made sacrifices and I've no time at all for the lily livered in such crucial issues which affect each and every one of us :mad:

As for the NQTs not standing up for themselves. While there are indeed some, maybe many, reared on a diet of mefeinism, it is indisputable that many others are too time pressed, too confused,too stressed, too afraid of school managers etc etc to get involved in the unions and to really push for their rights. Even back in my day, when principals innately respected unions, I would have been too intimidated by everything at the start of my career and too damn busy finding my feet, to start kicking up a fuss about anything. Traditionally it was always the established teachers who fought the fight for their younger collegues and that hasn't changed.

In fact teachers claiming that they won't fight for the NQTs because the NQTs won't fight for themselves are just as selfish as the shower who vote Yes for their increments and CIDs. All hugely lacking trade union principles.

scoopmine

Was the ASTI vote this week?

evolving_doors

scoopmine wrote: »

Was the ASTI vote this week?

Ya there should be ballots at your school

acequion

No the vote was not this week. Ballot papers are only just starting to arrive in schools and the closing date is not until Tuesday 20th November.

Bobtheman

Despite my rant. I'm thinking it over. I might vote no too . Let's be realistic they ain't gonna restore pay overnight but if there was a solid commitment to end two tier pay scale I think that would be acceptable

acequion

Bobtheman wrote: »

Despite my rant. I'm thinking it over. I might vote no too . Let's be realistic they ain't gonna restore pay overnight but if there was a solid commitment to end two tier pay scale I think that would be acceptable

Delighted to hear that.:)

And yes you're right that this won't be resolved overnight and being even more realistic,the Govt don't want to end the two tier scale at all. But if enough people did their heels in they will eventually be forced to make a commitment. That's how policy can be changed from the ground as we saw with water charges.

So let's all say No and stick with our No!

kala85

When is the deadline for asti members to send back in their votes

Benicetomonty

kala85 wrote: »

When is the deadline for asti members to send back in their votes

Ballot closes on the 20th of November.

Bobtheman

acequion wrote: »

Delighted to hear that.:)

And yes you're right that this won't be resolved overnight and being even more realistic,the Govt don't want to end the two tier scale at all. But if enough people did their heels in they will eventually be forced to make a commitment. That's how policy can be changed from the ground as we saw with water charges.

So let's all say No and stick with our No!

I'm a sucker for a strong woman so will follow instructions!

acequion

Bobtheman wrote: »

I'm a sucker for a strong woman so will follow instructions!

lol :D:

Bobtheman

I think its going to be a Yes. Though I voted no in the end. I think the shadow of last dispute hangs heavy. Plus with the recent AP interviews and appointments-you will have a lot of senior teachers voting Yes. They saw the 1000 teachers leaving.

I dont think a lot of LPTs outside Dublin realise how badly screwed the have been. You dont seriously start thinking of a pension until your 40s and you dont realize how little you earn until you get married or try to fund kids. Of course those without kids also eventually realise this

Icsics

Bobtheman wrote: »

I think its going to be a Yes. Though I voted no in the end. I think the shadow of last dispute hangs heavy. Plus with the recent AP interviews and appointments-you will have a lot of senior teachers voting Yes. They saw the 1000 teachers leaving.

I dont think a lot of LPTs outside Dublin realise how badly screwed the have been. You dont seriously start thinking of a pension until your 40s and you dont realize how little you earn until you get married or try to fund kids. Of course those without kids also eventually realise this

I voted no but like you said nobody wants another strike & a lot thought that a no vote would mean automatic strike. People were looking at the TUI members in our place, while ASTI were out in the cold last year they were getting 40 mins off their timetable, nobody wants that again either! Definitely going to be close

Bobtheman

I don't think it will be close. 55-58% yes. The fight is gone out of the union. Romantic Asti is dead and gone it's with the November dispute in the grave.
Young staff brain washed by an outlandish hdip and too busy back stabbing each other to get the huge sum of 2k after tax. I suspect if you offered to pay them in gruel they might take it.

Sir123

Bobtheman wrote: »

I don't think it will be close. 55-58% yes. The fight is gone out of the union. Romantic Asti is dead and gone it's with the November dispute in the grave.
Young staff brain washed by an outlandish hdip and too busy back stabbing each other to get the huge sum of 2k after tax. I suspect if you offered to pay them in gruel they might take it.

I'd be hoping it would be 55-58% NO. Majority in my school voted no. Even longer serving teachers are sick of this constant attack. We need to stand strong. It would be interesting to hear how other schools were leaning. Based on my school it would be a No but we're only one of the posse.

acequion

Sir123 wrote: »

I'd be hoping it would be 55-58% NO. Majority in my school voted no. Even longer serving teachers are sick of this constant attack. We need to stand strong. It would be interesting to hear how other schools were leaning. Based on my school it would be a No but we're only one of the posse.

Based on a lot of schools Id say,mine included. But there will be a lot of yes places knocking around too so its too hard to call.

I don't really agree with Bobtheman though I love the Yeats quote I think there are more teachers angry at the Govt over the attacks than at the union over failed strikes.

Fingers crossed folks.

happywithlife

depressingly lots in my school didn't even know what we were voting on and only asked what it meant and what was union directive as it was time to collect ballot papers. on the plus side the few who discussed it at lunch on friday seemed to be on the no side so may have swung it a bit

picturehangup

It was a very strong 'NO' in our SR

Bobtheman

picturehangup wrote: »

It was a very strong 'NO' in our SR

What people say they are voting for and what they vote for are two different things. I remember you would be hard pressed to find FF voters in a staffroom or in general population but they still got 40%. These days they are just down to the in bred vote of 20%
I stand by my prediction.

Millem

When are asti results out?