Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Affordability of Property and Irish Wages/Salaries

Options
12345679»

Comments

  • Options
    #242
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    Does this include mortgage debt?.............

    The majority of it is mortgage debt :)


  • Options
    #243
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,071 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    draiochtanois wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Fair enough, but it would be interesting to see a breakdown of deposit vs borrowings for different age demographics.
    It’d be hard to believe that 30-40 wouldn’t have a large debt vs deposit ratio, due to large mortgages.


  • Options
    #244
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,071 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Saints#33 wrote: »
    Yet 80% of the countries wealth is in the bank accounts of people over 60 years of age. (I got that stat direct from the head of a bank at a business summit a few years back).

    Everyone else, up to their eyes in debt. So you're both kinda right.

    Yep this is what I’m getting at. The averages say as a nation we are economically healthy, but when you look further into age demographics I wouldn’t be so sure.


  • Options
    #245
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,071 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    Is this a tongue in cheek post? Because you're quoting figures on govt debt not household debt.


    Are we honestly trying to say here that Ireland is now worse off economically than, say, the 80s or earlier? Because that's patent bollocks.

    The government has to service that debt (currently they “spend” 12 billion a year in paying that debt, 2 billion off the debt, 10 billion interest)
    The government gets the money to service that debt through taxes raised from its citizens. Therefore government debt has a direct effect on citizens. It may not be classed as household debt, but it’s still getting paid from your gross earnings.

    https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/debt/2019/

    Actually the figures have slightly changed since I last looked at it.
    6.29b service of national debt
    2.65 eu budget contribution
    1.84 other non voted expenditure


  • Options
    #246
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,007 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    tom1ie wrote: »
    The government has to service that debt (currently they “spend” 12 billion a year in paying that debt, 2 billion off the debt, 10 billion interest)
    The government gets the money to service that debt through taxes raised from its citizens. Therefore government debt has a direct effect on citizens. It may not be classed as household debt, but it’s still getting paid from your gross earnings.

    https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/debt/2019/

    Actually the figures have slightly changed since I last looked at it.
    6.29b service of national debt
    2.65 eu budget contribution
    1.84 other non voted expenditure

    Yes I'm aware I pay tax. However I'm currently in no debt and my tax burden isn't driving me into debt either. That'll be my own choice, to buy a house.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #247
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,071 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    Yes I'm aware I pay tax. However I'm currently in no debt and my tax burden isn't driving me into debt either. That'll be my own choice, to buy a house.

    I’m delighted for you.
    But when/if you buy a house I presume that debt will outway savings, therefore illustrating my point?


  • Options
    #248
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,007 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    tom1ie wrote: »
    I’m delighted for you.
    But when/if you buy a house I presume that debt will outway savings, therefore illustrating my point?

    That will still have nothing to do with govt debt or tax.

    Yes it will outweigh my savings, of course it will. You can use an alarmist term such as I'll be "up to my eyeballs in debt" if you like but the reality is it'll be a sustainable amount that I'll be perfectly happy to pay each month.


  • Options
    #249
    ionapaul
    Registered Users Posts: 5,293 ✭✭✭ionapaul


    tom1ie wrote: »
    I’m delighted for you.
    But when/if you buy a house I presume that debt will outway savings, therefore illustrating my point?
    But the value of the house less the debt will still result in almost all new home buyers (and the overwhelming percentage of Irish people) having a positive net worth, right?


  • Options
    #250
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,071 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    ionapaul wrote: »
    But the value of the house less the debt will still result in almost all new home buyers (and the overwhelming percentage of Irish people) having a positive net worth, right?

    Once house prices stay above the level of debt, but remember, if it costs 1600 a month to service the debt (that’s a 400000 mortgage) and you run into financial difficulty, it’s not like you can access the value of the house to put food on the table as you don’t own the house. You own the mortgage, the bank owns the house. Also remember if interest rates increase even by a small amount, the more debt you have taken out the more effect that has on monthly repayments, for example a 1% increase on a 400000 loan will increase monthly payments by
    €219.50.


  • Options
    #251
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    kippy wrote: »
    Indeed. Its the same or similar situation in other European capital cities.
    Cyrus wrote: »
    What should a young professional couple be able to buy? What would they be able to buy in any other capital city in Europe ?
    The above is such silly reasoning given the fundamental issue with Dublin's property market is a chronic lack of supply. It's ridiculous to attempt to make a direct comparison between Dublin and other European capital cities given the dysfunctional nature of the market in Dublin. Very disingenuous and/or very poor understanding of the unique supply issue currently in Dublin.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #252
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,676 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    The above is such silly reasoning given the fundamental issue with Dublin's property market is a chronic lack of supply. It's ridiculous to attempt to make a direct comparison between Dublin and other European capital cities given the dysfunctional nature of the market in Dublin. Very disingenuous and/or very poor understanding of the unique supply issue currently in Dublin.

    Please articulate your unique insight for the benefit of the rest of us


  • Options
    #253
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    Cyrus wrote: »
    Please articulate your unique insight for the benefit of the rest of us
    Supply > Demand.

    Not a unique insight as you can see. The Dublin property market doesn't require any unique insight. It simply requires supply.


  • Options
    #254
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    Supply > Demand.

    Not a unique insight as you can see. The Dublin property market doesn't require any unique insight. It simply requires supply.

    Supply/demand imbalance is what is driving price rises in most other European capitals. Do you think London had excess supply relative to Dublin or something? Dublin's situation ain't unique.

    https://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2017/mar/21/homelessness-housing-problems-crisis-point-all-eu-countries-except-finland


  • Options
    #255
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,086 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Fair enough, but it would be interesting to see a breakdown of deposit vs borrowings for different age demographics.
    It’d be hard to believe that 30-40 wouldn’t have a large debt vs deposit ratio, due to large mortgages.

    Have a read:

    https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/housingandhouseholds/householdfinanceandconsumptionsurvey/


  • Options
    #256
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,676 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    Supply > Demand.

    Not a unique insight as you can see. The Dublin property market doesn't require any unique insight. It simply requires supply.

    I’d check your equation if I was you

    And once corrected it only holds for certain market segments not all, do you think there is an abundance of affordable housing in London for example

    Edit / Only just saw the post by amirani after I replied


Advertisement