Affordability of Property and Irish Wages/Salaries

Cyrus

Interested Observer wrote: »

What's the top end, above what sort of price?

i think properties at the 900k+ mark are slowing a little, affordability is kicking in,

if you want to buy a 1m house you need 200k + €230k in house hold earnings (if you have no kids), there arent that many out there that meet the criteria so they have their choice and are obviously a little slower to commit.

I think houses at a level where househould income of 100-150k is required will still be sought after - 6-700k and under

Interested Observer

Cyrus wrote: »

i think properties at the 900k+ mark are slowing a little, affordability is kicking in,

if you want to buy a 1m house you need 200k + €230k in house hold earnings (if you have no kids), there arent that many out there that meet the criteria so they have their choice and are obviously a little slower to commit.

I think houses at a level where househould income of 100-150k is required will still be sought after - 6-700k and under

Bit disappointing then because 900k+ is a tiny part of the market in Dublin, between 6 and 7% from what I can see on the PPR this year. Not much good to the vast majority of us.

Bluefoam

Interested Observer wrote: »

Bit disappointing then because 900k+ is a tiny part of the market in Dublin, between 6 and 7% from what I can see on the PPR this year. Not much good to the vast majority of us.

Thats how averages work... no one is being mean to you.

Mickiemcfist

Bluefoam wrote: »

Thats how averages work... no one is being mean to you.

Badum Tish!

Cyrus

Interested Observer wrote: »

Bit disappointing then because 900k+ is a tiny part of the market in Dublin, between 6 and 7% from what I can see on the PPR this year. Not much good to the vast majority of us.

probably a bit more, remember new builds will be ex vat on the PPR.

CB rules are what are putting the brakes on so its pretty clear it will only happen at those kind of levels, plenty of young professional couples with 120-180k a year between them

Bob24

Bluefoam wrote: »

Thats how averages work... no one is being mean to you.

Oh as far as arithmetics are concerned, any average is very much mean to me!

Cuddlesworth

Cyrus wrote: »

i think properties at the 900k+ mark are slowing a little, affordability is kicking in,

if you want to buy a 1m house you need 200k + €230k in house hold earnings (if you have no kids), there arent that many out there that meet the criteria so they have their choice and are obviously a little slower to commit.

I think houses at a level where househould income of 100-150k is required will still be sought after - 6-700k and under

I was thinking your idea of household income for younger people seems seriously out of whack, then I looked at your location. Fair enough I guess.

Sub 400-450 is where most professional couples are topping out at.

Cyrus

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I was thinking your idea of household income for younger people seems seriously out of whack, then I looked at your location. Fair enough I guess.

Sub 400-450 is where most professional couples are topping out at.

450 is (for a non FTB) is a 90k deposit leaving 360k mortgage requiring joint income (if no kids) of 100k.

Newly qualified big 4 accountants are commanding 60-70k, im guessing something similar for solicitors. Sales people in the tech co's in relatively entry levels sales roles can have OTE of 60-70 easily. I dont think im far off seeing young professional couples being able to get towards 150k combined.

Zenify

I think it's more like 40k?

https://www.glassdoor.ie/Salary/KPMG-Dublin-Salaries-EI_IE2867.0,4_IL.5,11_IM1052.htm

Bluefoam

Cyrus wrote: »

450 is (for a non FTB) is a 90k deposit leaving 360k mortgage requiring joint income (if no kids) of 100k.

Newly qualified big 4 accountants are commanding 60-70k, im guessing something similar for solicitors. Sales people in the tech co's in relatively entry levels sales roles can have OTE of 60-70 easily. I dont think im far off seeing young professional couples being able to get towards 150k combined.

How many graduates recieve roles in the big 4? For two of those to get married would be somewhat of a statistical anomaly. Solicitors get paid sweet F.A. upon graduation. Sales people are paid in buttons (literally), but can earn massive comission if they achieve unrealistic targets...

What planet do you live on?

keane2097

I see Eoghan Murphy is on boards.

Cyrus

Bluefoam wrote: »

How many graduates recieve roles in the big 4? For two of those to get married would be somewhat of a statistical anomaly. Solicitors get paid sweet F.A. upon graduation. Sales people are paid in buttons (literally), but can earn massive comission if they achieve unrealistic targets...

What planet do you live on?

im on the planet of experience of all of the things i spoke about, it seems that you arent :rolleyes:

Solicitors earn buttons? what kind of uninformed statement is that? You realise there are 1000's of solicitors working in the large firms earning excellent salaries right?

And i know exactly what sales people in the tech co's earn because i used to set the annual forecasts in one of them.

House prices are where they are because thats what people can afford, do you think people are buying them with imaginary money?

draiochtanois

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ELM327

draiochtanois wrote: »

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They tax those at source now. unfortunately.
Paid for a lot of my house deposit though!

Cyrus

draiochtanois wrote: »

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indeed i know a lot of people whose facebook RSUs covered a nice portion of their house purchase

Umaro

Bluefoam wrote: »

How many graduates recieve roles in the big 4?

Literally hundreds every year. I know, because I was one.

Bluefoam wrote: »

For two of those to get married would be somewhat of a statistical anomaly.

I assure you it's not. So many people end up in relationships with each other inside the Big 4. There is a lot of people who couple up after working in the same department for a few years.

Bluefoam wrote: »

Solicitors get paid sweet F.A. upon graduation.

Brightwater says:

Bluefoam wrote: »

What planet do you live on?

I'm honestly wondering if your post was satire, because it was so so wrong in so many points.

Arthur Daley

Yet making 75k+ would put you into the top, what 15%-20% of earners. 2 toghether would put you into the top probably 10-12% of households. There are some people who make these sums but they are in the top 15% of earners.

A lot of these high achievers can probably only really afford some semi d out the back of rathfarnham or firhouse in reality.

Bluefoam

Umaro wrote: »

Literally hundreds every year. I know, because I was one.




I assure you it's not. So many people end up in relationships with each other inside the Big 4. There is a lot of people who couple up after working in the same department for a few years.




Brightwater says:






I'm honestly wondering if your post was satire, because it was so so wrong in so many points.

Congratulations on being one of the elite & knowing others who are members of the top 15%... I didn't deny that those jobs exist, only that they are not representative of the societal average.

Cyrus

Bluefoam wrote: »

Congratulations on being one of the elite & knowing others who are members of the top 15%... I didn't deny that those jobs exist, only that they are not representative of the societal average.

solicitors earn sweet FA was your quote.

and no one said they are representative of the societal average but they are representative of a professional couple.

draiochtanois

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Cuddlesworth

Couple of things. Solicitors, chartered accountants and doctors are of course high earners. But they don't just rock into 75k a year at a young age.

The big four basically require a masters now. Most people start there at 24-26 and work as a trainee for 4 years earning practically nothing during that period(while they work their balls off), the wages scales during the trainee years are pretty pathetic.

Most are turfed at the end of the four years and upon leaving used to get offered circa 50k in Dublin, of course some walk into higher paying jobs but its not a huge number. Then over time their wages can increase.

I'm 5 years out from one of the big four, so it can't have changed that much in recent years.

So its fair to say the majority of sub 30 year old couples who want to buy a house are very unlikely to break 100k combined, even if they happen to both be professionals.

Bluefoam

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Don't be so defensive... anyone earing 75k as a graduate in Ireland is in a very good position. The average wage is just over 36k, therefore the a couple on average earnings would have about 72k joint... I do realise that you are talking about professional couples... but you are saying that graduates as a couple would have an anual earning of 150k... thats just not correct, even accounting for chart above, which would be the very top for a graduate in a very fortunate position.

https://www.payscale.com/research/IE/Location=Dublin-Dublin/Salary

alwald

I would say, on top of my head, that most couples in good employment and without kids earn between 80k and 100K both which means that the maximum a bank would lend them is between 280k and 350K bearing in mind that they need the 10% deposit.

A lot of people won't be able to afford a property above 400K hence why couples nowadays are looking for apartments (2 to 3 beds) with a max of 40 min commute by bus/Luas to work instead of a 3 bed semi D in Meath or Louth with a 1.5H commute by car each way.

TimeToShine

The question is if a 30 year old professional couple who are both earning a top salary in excess of €150k between them can barely scrape their way into a mediocre three bed semi d in Rathfarnham then who in the name of God is actually in the mix for the other houses? And more importantly, why? What's the point of studying for 5 years, paying for a masters, excelling in your field for 10 years such that your salary significantly outstrips your peers and still not being able to afford the house that in any functioning economic landscape you should be within reach of?

Cyrus

Bluefoam wrote: »

Don't be so defensive... anyone earing 75k as a graduate in Ireland is in a very good position. The average wage is just over 36k, therefore the a couple on average earnings would have about 72k joint... I do realise that you are talking about professional couples... but you are saying that graduates as a couple would have an anual earning of 150k... thats just not correct, even accounting for chart above, which would be the very top for a graduate in a very fortunate position.

https://www.payscale.com/research/IE/Location=Dublin-Dublin/Salary

No one was referring to graduates you’ve just introduced that

Cyrus

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Couple of things. Solicitors, chartered accountants and doctors are of course high earners. But they don't just rock into 75k a year at a young age.

The big four basically require a masters now. Most people start there at 24-26 and work as a trainee for 4 years earning practically nothing during that period(while they work their balls off), the wages scales during the trainee years are pretty pathetic.

Most are turfed at the end of the four years and upon leaving used to get offered circa 50k in Dublin, of course some walk into higher paying jobs but its not a huge number. Then over time their wages can increase.

I'm 5 years out from one of the big four, so it can't have changed that much in recent years.

So its fair to say the majority of sub 30 year old couples who want to buy a house are very unlikely to break 100k combined, even if they happen to both be professionals.

You obviously aren’t trying to hire any at the moment then, 50k wouldn’t touch the sides. That only existed for a period , when I left it was 70k or so ( 2006) and nowadays it’s pretty similar and that salary only goes one way if you are any good.

Also do a bcomm and macc you are working at 22, qualified at 25 and earning 60-70k in your first industry job. Adding another 20-40k on top of the over the next 5 years isn’t inconceivable

Cyrus

TimeToShine wrote: »

The question is if a 30 year old professional couple who are both earning a top salary in excess of €150k between them can barely scrape their way into a mediocre three bed semi d in Rathfarnham then who in the name of God is actually in the mix for the other houses? And more importantly, why? What's the point of studying for 5 years, paying for a masters, excelling in your field for 10 years such that your salary significantly outstrips your peers and still not being able to afford the house that in any functioning economic landscape you should be within reach of?

What should a young professional couple be able to buy? What would they be able to buy in any other capital city in Europe ?

kippy

Cyrus wrote: »

What should a young professional couple be able to buy? What would they be able to buy in any other capital city in Europe ?

Indeed. Its the same or similar situation in other European capital cities.

Bob24

Cyrus wrote: »

What should a young professional couple be able to buy? What would they be able to buy in any other capital city in Europe ?

The post you quoted said “30 year old professional couple who are both earning a top salary in excess of €150K”. Translating that to “a young professional couple” is completely changing the equation, so the question you are asking seems unrelated to the post you are quoting.

Cyrus

Bob24 wrote: »

The post you quoted said “30 year old professional couple who are both earning a top salary in excess of €150K”. Translating that to “a young professional couple” is completely changing the equation, so the question you are asking seems unrelated to the post you are quoting.

To me that is a young professional couple , make sense now ?

Bob24

Cyrus wrote: »

To me that is a young professional couple , make sense now ?

No still doesn’t: asking why a couple on top salaries can’t buy as the OP did is not the same question at all as asking why a couple can’t buy. Quite obvious that if the question is restricted to a small subset at the top of the scale it is a very different one from a generic question about “young couple” such as the one you asked in return.