Wheel of Time (Amazon)

Need a Username

Can someone please explain the politics and geography of Wheel of Time?

Is it one large country with a lot of kings? Or is it a continent with a lot of countries?

And why do the White Cloaks kill Aei Sedai for no reason (none given in that episode anyway)?

The tinker kid seemed very confident that they would would beat his people but not kill anyone.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396352#Comment_118396352

No it was cancelled it. It wasnt good, the writing was at the level of Xena. But like xena at least they had some new ideas and it wasn't an adaptation. The problem with adaptations like the wheel of time is there is a lot of nick- picking on changes from the source material from the original fandom resulting in downvoting in review sites so it is sometimes hard to judge if it works as a tv show. Vikings was good, Shadow and Bone was average with too much tenn romance and unfortunately wheel of time is a bit of a mess.

Flinty997

I thought shadow and bone was decent. Looks great anyway.

Flinty997

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396737#Comment_118396737

I’ve never read the books so long so I’m looking at Tina’s a TV show

The first episode was good whenever Pike was in the scene and I love that there magic on display and fantastical creatures. The attack on the village was good and felt properly chaotic.

Episodes 2 & 3 were a drag (so much that I www surprised to see today that it was only two episodes) despite the appearance of the nutty witch killer because it all focused on the four villages who are mostly unlikeable.

However episodes 4 & 5 introduced some interesting supporting character and delved into the culture, rituals and organisations and introduced a proper city and a ogre librarian. And had witches in a battle.

I’m not hooked like I am with other shows but Wheel of Time is getting better and more interesting.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396644#Comment_118396644

from what I recall it takes place in one continent with many kingdoms. though other continents exist in the world.

The whitecloaks are supposed to be there to hunt all types of darkfriends which they consider the Aes Sedai to be.

Ah yeah I think the whitecloaks suspect anyone to be a Darkfriend but they have a code and wouldn't just kill anyone. They are a bit like the Spanish Inquisition.

Nody

@Need a Username

Can someone please explain the politics and geography of Wheel of Time?

Is it one large country with a lot of kings? Or is it a continent with a lot of countries?

Continent that ranges from basically tundra in the north (except it's blight and hence moist and fetid rather than cold and frigid; think a decaying Florida swamp with stagnant water) with think Rohan style sturdy northerners that keep the stuff in the blight back there and ensure Trolloc raiding parties don't sneak by into their farm lands. South of this think Russian empty forests with scattered villages (where the main characters grew up) that's part of a nominal kingdom but in reality is the frontier where you talk a week+ to get to a half sized town and get maybe three traders coming by every year who are the main news teller of what's going on out there. Next down from there you start going into normal kingdoms with fields etc. but smaller than what you'd have in Europe today in a variety of styles from hereditary kingdoms, to the king being elected by the noble houses to pure republic setups (with the kingdoms fighting each other on a regular enough basis to have professional armies) with a sea at the south end. Basically all kingdoms think the others are weaker than them and they usually have something to make them distinct from a cultural perspective (clothes choice, tradition etc.) that the other kingdoms think is silly and help cause frictions between the nations. Brisk trading between kingdoms and over the sea with southern island nations with further continents (not really explored) at the other end of the sea. Towards the east it goes into a huge desert that stretches "for ever" with other kingdoms on the other side with very limited trade due to the desert (once again not really explored in size/layout etc. in great detail). Size think maybe Europe overall but turn anything beyond the Western Russian mountain chain into desert instead.

And why do the White Cloaks kill Aei Sedai for no reason (none given in that episode anyway)?

The tinker kid seemed very confident that they would would beat his people but not kill anyone.

As noted above they hate dark friends and anyone using the power is by their definition tainted and a dark friend since the power is wrong and is helping the Devil even by using it for "good" (as far as they are concerned there is no good the power can ever do). Think crusader knights except their church states dark friends = any power users, anyone we think is a dark friend and people we want to bully/question. If you don't support our just cause you're a dark friend by definition oh and we want gold, money, people and that you do what you're told. They also like to play politics (as does every side to be fair) and try to take control of kingdoms by setting up "advisors" to advice how the king should rule on questions. They have a long standing feud with the Aes Sedai in general (and had an army besieging Tar Valon for a couple of years if I remember correctly in the past) and because they both want to control the kings basically. How pure belief they are varies, some really believe it others are more pragmatic and simply want power. In regards to the last they see tinkerers as a bully target but they never take up weapons due to their religion and never get into positions of power; ergo they get beat up and possibly driven away by everyone but not more as they are not a threat, they are simply gypsies and hence rank below everyone else.

Above is from memory close to two decades ago; hence don't take it as gospel but should paint a general picture without spoiling anything.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118397181#Comment_118397181

In episode 2 Morene clearly feared the White Cloaks (I thought this was because she was wounded) so her sisterhood is aware that they kill Aei Sedai but that zealot faction was outside the city with the White Tower - why did the Aei Sedai allow this?

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118397441#Comment_118397441

Aei Sedai don't have their own standing army (they got basic city guards in Tar Valon basically) and basically have to ask other kingdoms to put pressure on the White Cloaks to get rid of them. They could go over there and play "fling the fireball on the white cloak" if they wanted to (there are some caveats here with the power level and abilities of individual Aes Sedai, their internal factions etc.) but their vows don't allow it. Basically Aes Sedai has committed to train up women with power to make them safe in their use of power and "advice" anyone who asks for it and not "abuse" the power (and why there are Aes Sedai out and about looking for women who starts to use the power to send them back to Tar Valon to be trained to avoid that they set their own house on fire by mistake). If you are female and can use the power you have to be trained in Tal Valon (depending on your ability level that make get you into the Aei Sedai or if you're not strong enough simply trained enough to not kill someone). They take no side in a war between nations and work to ensure a second apocalypse will go well which includes capturing fake dragons as there's a prophecy that one day the Dragon (legendary hero) will rise again to do war on the Evil; hence the need to ensure people don't get tricked and run away and suicide as well as false Dragons have risen up to try to overthrow kingdoms "to gather forces" (which is why kings don't like false Dragons and will lend military forces to capture them and if the dragon can use the power only the Aes Sedai can counter them with their powers).

Black Sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118397441#Comment_118397441

Bear in mind the Aes Sedai can’t use the One Power to wage war offensively. They also don’t have a standing army, just warders and a guard force.

They certainly can plot and arrange for others to do their bidding and in general terms in the WOT it’s likely that the Whitecloaks would be an even bigger threat if Aes Sedai allies weren’t keeping them limited to Amador as the only country they rule.

In the show in the episodes you’ve seen them they have had their power levels dialled up from the books. There’s no way Valda had claimed so many rings in the source material.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118397584#Comment_118397584

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118397596#Comment_118397596

Thanks to both of you.

I had forgot the Aei Sedai code and the fact that used their powers in battle further added to forgetting the rule that they don’t use the power to attack.

The fact that Valda (I was calling him the nutty one) had so many rings was actually leading to my confusion about why they seemed to be running rampant in through the countryside. Less rings would have had me thinking.

has it been mentioned in the show that Aei Sedai allies were containing the White Cloaks? I thought the only restraint on them was the other calmer faction with the like or Stewart Grahame and even those guys didn’t seem up to it

thanks for the Wheel of Time 101 ;)

Black Sheep

In the books there’s so ample time for that kind of exposition, around camp fires and whatnot. Lan and Moiraine do a lot of educating of the Two Rivers folk. In the show, not so much.

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118397873#Comment_118397873

They could have spent 3 minutes after an encounter to have Lan lay down the above to be honest; it's simply incompetence failing to explain the history. Have Ran ask "Why are we hiding from the white cloaks?" Lan gives a gruff "There's a long history of hostility between the white cloaks and Tar Valon going back all the way to what ever and they don't often see eye to eye on issues but the "kings/Amyrlyn seat/leader of white cloaks etc." makes sure it does not escalate and we make sure not to cross paths". Done, lore drop that would be a natural fit but of course that does not matter because it's more important to show how women are smarter than men.

Need a Username

I thought maybe the White Tower and the city was going to become the base of operations and Morane and her gang would head of on adventure and then return.

Once they revealed she was going to get banished as cover for going after the Dark One then I thought a lot travel on horses and walking - a lot of scenery. Gets done to death in fantasy movies and shows.

But the episode ended reveal they’d go through portals (and it looks likes not instant travel but going through will be an adventure in itself ) so that is a nice change.

I do not like the bird with the stick eternally up her arse. In the real world she would annoy me. That’s is while I like her being in the show. I’d that makes senses :)

Mr.Fantastic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396618#Comment_118396618

Would second this , felt the world and story were tight enough. Enjoyed it more than wheel of time anyway

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118398380#Comment_118398380

It's coherent, and it explains the story as it goes. It looks great and there are strong characters.

Daroxtar

In the books the Whitecloaks very rarely openly threaten Aes Sedai. At best they are a nuisance who occasionally get lucky with a crossbow. They are quite influential in some other kingdoms though, most notably Amadicia where they are the de facto rulers and being an Aes Sedai is a crime.

In the show, Rafe needed bad guys from the off so they were an easy choice. He made them much more threatening because this is now The Wheel of Rafe

Flinty997

I've forgotten. But were they not like an independent army in the books. Religious fanatics, but effectively a military organisation. Like Templars. You'd find units of various sizes scattered in different countries. So you could run into a small unit of them.

Black Sheep

The Children of Light / Whitecloaks evolved from preachers to military order as mentioned above, and established a HQ in Amador.

In the lore they are meant to have slowly grown since their founding, and killed an Amyrlin Seat at one stage, but yeah in the books they are definitely not the main threat. More of a “what else could go wrong? Oh, here comes a detachment of the Whitecloaks at the worst possible time…”.

I think male religious zealots are always handy Tv bad guys these days, however. I expect to see a lot of them.

robertpatterson

I havent read the books and was looking forward to something like Game of thrones

I was very disappointed considering the amount of money allegedly spent on this series, only for some of the posteres here i wouldnt have had a clue whereas in GoT it was fairly self explanatory

Ill probably give it a miss for series 2 if it comes around

human 19

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409174#Comment_118409174

I read the books and was expecting something between LOTR and GOT. There are a lot of boring unnecessarily drawn out conversations in the books which they got rid of. Unfortunalely they replaced it with brand-new unnecessary waffle. There were a lot of detailed battles in the books, but in the series the men seem to be just trolloc fodder until the women step up to sort it out. I never thought of myself as an action fan but after 3 or 4 episodes of this i felt the need to get out my LOTR DVDs again for more of a balance between lore and battle.

I joined for this but am staying for The Expanse. Will leave after I watch all of that. I'm thinking that if they ((in WOT) have managed to fit in so much waffle and soap opera tropes (Rand jealous of Perrin over Egwene being an example), then god knows how much rubbish they will come up with when other main characters come on board. One of the big disappointments was that we didnt see the wonderful scenes when Rand meets one of the main female characters for the 1st time, and what ensued afterwards. I have a feeling that the queen's advisor in said episode will not be included in the series and will be replaced by someone who has become one of the main characters already.

I joined Amazon prime for this and, looking at their other offerings, I felt they seem to catering more to a female audience rather than male compared to Netflix. Maybe that's why they made the show as they did, with more emphasis on the powerful women.

OwaynOTT

Just watched The Green Knight on prime. Very different type of piece but despite the out there story and visuals it felt more real than WoT.

his clothes got dirty, he got dirty, the lighting was good, it felt lived in and real.

the green knight was the green man we deserved.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118430688#Comment_118430688

more real?

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118424394#Comment_118424394

What about Prime is it that you think it is more aimed at women?

Are you saying Netflix is more for men?

OwaynOTT

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118442532#Comment_118442532

the effect the quest has in Gawain helps ground the more fantastical elements.

we can see how his journey is taking a tole on him in his appearance and clothing. In WoT, everything always looks clean and new.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118443018#Comment_118443018

Well the effect of the Quest on Gawain is what the movie is about

sure if the clothes got dirty and torn in Wheel of time it would be nice touch but not something most would notice I think

but there is that old chestnut again ? “Grounding”

why on earth would want fantasy grounded?

I don’t see how the naked giants and talking fox were grounde

The exhaustion, fear, dirty clothes, etc were a nice touch in Green Knight but it didn’t ground the fantasy elements at all - thank goodness - if anything it enhanced the fantasy elements by showing him as ordinary. or at least as not a hero character

I worried, in the trailer times, that this show was CW quality. Watched a few more episodes a second time to see was I being unfair and I don't think that I am.

Cinematography, wardrobe, random love triangles, angst etc.

It's like a low/mid budget show aimed at the "The 100" audience rather a 10 mil per episode epic

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118442533#Comment_118442533

I don't see it either; in fact if we're talking pure generalisations, Netflix has more Original shows markedly aimed at female demographics than Prime would have. Your Emily in Paris, and various YA properties. Which, obviously, is fine with me and bare no ill will - but wouldn't see that same slant on Amazon IMO.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118443884#Comment_118443884

Yeah that one escapes me too.

Rafe has gone on record that he has his own aim/agenda, for the show, but not seeing it in an Amazon Prime thing

Need a Username

Is Pike’s character not a woman in the book?

are the two female villagers not in the books?