Wheel of Time (Amazon)

OwaynOTT

Episode 2&3 very good. Best run of episodes so far

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064888#Comment_121064888

Its an incoherent mess.

Its not simply thats its "a bit different" to the books. But its been distorted so that it no longer makes sense even on its own.

Makes even less sense especially if you read the books. Which is quite something to have achieved.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065876#Comment_121065876

*cough* Foundation *cough*

Sleepy

Wasn't aware it was back! Is there a decent re-cap of Season 1 at the start of episode 1 or do I need to find one on Youtube or the like?

fitz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066408#Comment_121066408

Man Of Recaps on YouTube did a good one.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066408#Comment_121066408

There was yes, though it lacked a little detail as it kinda skimmed the broad points.

Having watched episode 1, I enjoyed it on its own merits; the convenience of the non book reader I guess. There was a lot less bullshít table setting and clumsy world building from season 1 and the story just got going. The characters weren't these unknown quantities that needed dramatic backstories and purpose - the adventure and intrigue just started.

Black Sheep

I'm dipping in and out at this stage, but my initial thought is that I'm glad that Rafe Judkins has obviously decided he has paid enough lip service to the source material, and can more completely do his own thing this season. It was almost more frustrating, as a fan of the source material, that Season 1 was half adaptation of the 'Eye of the World' and half the showrunner obviously being a bit frustrated with it, and eager to do his own thing. I'd rather one or the other, so based on what season 2 is so far - a very clear divergence from the books - it's potentially better all round.

I think we'll continue to see characters and plot lines from the books, but all bets are off in terms of how the characters are depicted, how plot lines occur and are resolved, and their chronology.

The only thing is, it does make me a bit sad, as now we'll probably never get a genuine adaptation of the Wheel of Time books.

A really earnest Japanese anime version probably would be the way to go. Japanese anime can be a bit saccharine sweet, like Jordan's Wheel of Time sometimes.

Flinty997

I think it's very common practice in recent years to plunder a story to get project funded. But after you get funding you go change it to make something different and usually pushing some agenda.

Black Sheep

I heard an interview with Rosamund Pike, and she has some quite interesting things to say about the Wheel of Time in general. She has the benefit of doing the reading of the audiobooks and being on the show, so she probably knows the source material better than the rest of the cast.

I've heard her talk about what she thinks the differences are between Judkins' characters and the originals. She's diplomatic, but often you get the sense that she's got a bit of a gra for the novel originals, particularly when it comes to Moiraine. She has said she likes the cryptic, high fantasy way that Moiraine talks in the books (And, in fairness, Moiraine is probably the best example of an Aes Sedai not lying but consistently being... Economical with the truth). She says the show's rather more straightforward Moiraine is largely a function of the amended character needing to be more at the centre of events, progressing Judkins' plots.

Spoiler Warning

I don't mind there being more Moiraine, I could watch Rosamund Pike all day. But I do wonder what Judkins will eventually do with his Rand. I still get the impression he thought really, really hard about a way to avoid having such a conventional Dragon Reborn. Considering the other changes he made, he and his core audience might have been happier if they just did something like killed Rand off, and made Egwene the Dragon Reborn, and gave the books the two fingers altogether.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121068626#Comment_121068626

She's a Cavill

Slydice

I watched this recap before starting. Felt a bit long, at just under 19 mins, as recaps go.

The Wheel of Time Season 1 | PV Recaps | Prime Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx7KbRoNEDs

2.1: Hmmm, feels like this is going to be a bunch of wider character development.. maybe even world development before some big event towards the end of the season. Glad I watched that recap, there's a lot going on. Also happy I spotted the trick being played on

Spoiler Warning

Mat by yer wan in Red where she didn't mention the part of the letter that had his name. Had to double check that between the two versions being read

Dany Hitch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066129#Comment_121066129

I've read the series twice and whilst it does not remain faithful to the source material, it is improving as a spectacle for non-readers. I had low expectations of it and season 1 whilst not great, did enough for me to return for season 2 despite the changes a tv/movie adaptation will undoubtedly bring to a fifteen book series. Just finished S02E02 and it's gaining momentum. I'm liking Mat: can't wait for his antics.

I'm trying not to quote specific things lest I spoil the plot and outcomes for non-readers on here but I would love to know at this stage, do non-readers follow the various story arcs and the world of the WoT? Or is just frilly lace, gilded furniture and a spoonful of honey in the tea?!

5starpool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066129#Comment_121066129

This is mostly my take on it too. I reread the books last year after the first season, and I enjoyed even the problematic middle books more than I did previously. I know it's not possible to adapt it and be the same, but it's just a bit all over the place, especially with only 8 episodes a season. They are trying to fit too much in, while cutting stuff out, and it doesn't feel coherent to me. The only character so far that is similar to how I pictured them in the books is Elayne, and she hasn't done much in it yet. I have loads of questions too. I haven't posted much since the new software came in so don't know how spoiler tags work anymore. Nothing should be too spoilery though below.

Why did Moraine get cut off, or is she only shielded with a tied off shield?

Can anyone see weaves that anyone else makes? That's what it seems like but I can't remember them explaining it.

Is Te'aran'rhiod not going to be in the series at all? It hasn't been mentioned that I can see and was pretty important.

Is that Elyas instead of Huron as the sniffer? I think so, but they don't use names very often.

Are the seanchan not using physically linked collars? I'm assuming this will be explained more fully later when other events happen..

Why do the damane have metal dummies? They look silly.

Introducing Verin as Adelas' sister (I believe that is what they are doing) instead of Vandene is different too.

If they wanted to cut out a chunk of the books then I think they could have eliminated the Children of the Light altogether. I know they are in it a lot and some events hang off them, but tbh, I wouldn't miss most of the events in the books that involve them.

Flinty997

Agree totally I think there were better ways to condense and tighten and streamline the story.

But the director doesn't want to tell that story, he has his own agenda and wants to distort the source material to that end.

It's targeting a global audience who haven't read the books and are unlikely to ever read them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121077625#Comment_121077625

See that's the hypocrisy, absolutely in my own opinion.

If you want to make something for a new audience, work away.

Don't use an existing fan base, as hype generation, only to then gaslight them, when they complain about you ripping up the source.

We've the same in The Witcher and Lord of the Rings ROP.

People love the LotR films even when they are able to point out bad choices (Gimli character assassination) because the stayed true to central premises.

Expanse another fan favourite, even when making changes to Drummer.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121077625#Comment_121077625

It's targeting a global audience who haven't read the books and are unlikely to ever read them

Not exactly true: as is often the case, book adaptations have seen bumps in sales.of the original novel(s). Happens every time, and this series is hardly the first to take massive liberties with the original text (nor does it seem the worst, thinking of the recent attempt at The Watch). Honestly I've kinda lost count.

Say what you will about the series, but it's clear the TV show has driven new readers to the novels - and that's ultimately a net positive overall.

https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/news/wheel-of-time-book-sales-spike-amazon-prime/

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121077823#Comment_121077823

Agree totally.

Expanse is an especially good adaptation.

I enjoyed most of the Witcher, haven't read the books. Storyline seems confused though.

ROP, makes no sense to me what they did there.

Halo is a complete abomination.

God help anyone ever trying to adapt Malazan

5starpool

I presume Liandrin is taking the place of Elaida too, which is odd as both had very different arcs/motivations in the books.

Brief_Lives

I had only read the first 9 books by 2002... then I stopped.

Now I am back reading Crossroads of Twilight, book no10. I had forgotten how much I enjoyed these books, even with their long winded descriptions of fat, brown ajah aes sedai.

This tv series is understandably changed. The amount of characters in the books is only rivalled by War and Peace.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078010#Comment_121078010

The most egregious example of all is the abomination that is the "adaptation" of Terry Pratchett's City Watch books for BBC America.

I apologise for reminding or making anyone aware that this disgrace exists

Flinty997

If you consider something like Apocalypse Now that's a great adaptation that's very different to the book. But set out from the start to be different. But very common themes.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079960#Comment_121079960

And yet, hot garbage as that adaptation might have been I'd be shocked if it didn't result in a bump in sales of Pratchett's novels (the Watch sub-series in particular). TV and film adaptations, or the death of musical artists: both nearly always have a substantially positive effect on sales.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080111#Comment_121080111

Love the Watch. My favourite characters in Discworld.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079683#Comment_121079683

Did the same.

A few years after Sanderson finished the series, I went back and re-read it all. Didn't changed my opinion on it. Too long, too many characters, too many story arcs. Still great series though.

Game of thrones books have similar issues.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080111#Comment_121080111

I think this might be the one instance where the source is so far removed from the adaptation that people literally didn't connect them or disliked the show so much they wanted no more of it.

Flinty997

If the WOT series works for people who will never read the books. If they enjoy it, that's ok. But it could have been a lot better.

Ave Sodalis

I'm actually much more content with season 2 so far. In a way, I feel it's more true to the spirit of the books than last season. A big improvement in the costumes that have been dirtied up a bit and are less jarring to look at. Overall, I do believe (even as a book reader) they're on a better track.

Dany Hitch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079304#Comment_121079304

No sign of Elaida yet and Liandrin looks to be taking a more prominent role in the series than in the books. Quite a few changes to the books which appear to be streamlining the original story arcs but alas, not remaining true to the original. Just finished S02E04 and so far, it's an improvement on S01. Elayne looks to be a strong character already and then there's Lanfear...

5starpool

I was interested at their mention of the wolf dream in E04. I wonder how big they will get into that aspect of things as it is a very big part of the books. I still think they are being massively hamstrung by only 8 episodes per season. Some things they have to cut out of necessity, merging others are fine in context, but if they try to do too much in too little time, it'll end up an incoherent mess, which I hope it doesn't. I have a few big arcs in general that they can cut out and I'll be perfectly fine with it, but I won't go into it here for spoiler reasons.