Travellers want a state apology

JohnMc1

JayZeus wrote: »

Some muppet at that oireachtas committee looking to ban the word knacker, saying it's hate speech.

Go feck yourself. That word is an essential part of my Victorian English vocabulary. It's a superb little word.

Knacker. Knacker. Knacker.

It's a wonderful word. I'm keeping it. I'll use it every chance I get. Knackers.

I'm so glad we don't have a housing or medical crisis for him to worry about.:rolleyes:

Foxhound38

She's complaining about the fact that travellers are overrepresented in prisons - that's not discriminating against them if they are in there for committing crimes you silly bint.

"Ethnic culture boss" isn't a fcuking legal defence - although with our judiciary and lack of garda willingness to actually charge them it might as well be.

wexie

Foxhound38 wrote: »

She's complaining about the fact that travellers are overrepresented in prisons - that's not discriminating against them if they are in there for committing crimes you silly bint.

It would be if there was any evidence that the judicial system is more likely to convict them than regular aul Joe Blogs.

But certainly anecdotal evidence would suggest they are likely to get away with a lot more before they end up incarcerated if the reluctance of AGS to deal with them is anything to go by.

goose2005

JayZeus wrote: »

Some muppet at that oireachtas committee looking to ban the word knacker, saying it's hate speech.

Go feck yourself. That word is an essential part of my Victorian English vocabulary. It's a superb little word.

Knacker. Knacker. Knacker.

It's a wonderful word. I'm keeping it. I'll use it every chance I get. Knackers.

Like "tinker", it's insulting because it implies that Travellers do economically useful work.

JayZeus

JayZeus wrote: »

Some muppet at that oireachtas committee looking to ban the word knacker, saying it's hate speech.

Go feck yourself. That word is an essential part of my Victorian English vocabulary. It's a superb little word.

Knacker. Knacker. Knacker.

It's a wonderful word. I'm keeping it. I'll use it every chance I get. Knackers.

How dare you accord the gypos some manner of responsibility. There's a knack to tinkering with pots and pans.

demanufactured

wexie wrote: »

They use Facebook and Whatsapp groups

They use the whutsapps and the DVDs on YouTube.

seamus

Loves_lorries wrote: »

Blacksmith's and horse shoers were also forced to abandon their lifestyle.

It's called the reality and necessity of change, you seem to think travellers should have had there nomadic existence subsidised even further.

The difference is that nobody went around forcibly closing forges, forcing blacksmiths into jobs they didn't want and taking their kids away lest their kids learn to become blacksmiths.

The number of smiths naturally atrophied as the demand dropped.

No, we shouldn't be subsidising their way of life; if it doesn't work they should abandon it. But that doesn't mean we have to force it.

As the Irish should be all too aware, if you want to ignite cultural flames and cause a culture to become strong and proud, you suppress the fnck out of it.

Loves_lorries

seamus wrote: »

The difference is that nobody went around forcibly closing forges, forcing blacksmiths into jobs they didn't want and taking their kids away lest their kids learn to become blacksmiths.

The number of smiths naturally atrophied as the demand dropped.

No, we shouldn't be subsidising their way of life; if it doesn't work they should abandon it. But that doesn't mean we have to force it.

As the Irish should be all too aware, if you want to ignite cultural flames and cause a culture to become strong and proud, you suppress the fnck out of it.

Traveller culture has been funded to the rafters and championed to the rafters by various do gooder Liberal quangos down the years, we have had nothing but carrot now for decades and this approach has been a complete failure , time for stick to be used for the next twenty years.

It's going to happen eventually anyway, they are out of control when it comes to crime.

Gravelly

seamus wrote: »

The difference is that nobody went around forcibly closing forges, forcing blacksmiths into jobs they didn't want and taking their kids away lest their kids learn to become blacksmiths.

The number of smiths naturally atrophied as the demand dropped.

No, we shouldn't be subsidising their way of life; if it doesn't work they should abandon it. But that doesn't mean we have to force it.

As the Irish should be all too aware, if you want to ignite cultural flames and cause a culture to become strong and proud, you suppress the fnck out of it.

Exactly what "work" are they being forced out of? Thievery?

Hoboo

seamus wrote: »

The difference is that nobody went around forcibly closing forges, forcing blacksmiths into jobs they didn't want and taking their kids away lest their kids learn to become blacksmiths.

The number of smiths naturally atrophied as the demand dropped.

No, we shouldn't be subsidising their way of life; if it doesn't work they should abandon it. But that doesn't mean we have to force it.

As the Irish should be all too aware, if you want to ignite cultural flames and cause a culture to become strong and proud, you suppress the fnck out of it.

Suppression? Will you go n ****e, lazy in school, lazy in work, want everything for nothing, spend their lives targeting and ripping vulnerable people off, stealing, breaking into property, attacking innocents, the list goes on.

Suppression my bo11ix!!

PlaneSpeeking

Gravelly wrote: »

Exactly what "work" are they being forced out of? Thievery?

They don't seem to be stifled in that area!

Wibbs

wexie wrote: »

It would be if there was any evidence that the judicial system is more likely to convict them than regular aul Joe Blogs.

But certainly anecdotal evidence would suggest they are likely to get away with a lot more before they end up incarcerated if the reluctance of AGS to deal with them is anything to go by.

I don't blame the Guards TBH Wex. Yes you have the odd muppet in the force and the putting their time in types like any other job, but having known a few down the years they're more frustrated than the average Joe with the judicial system. If you've spent months gathering evidence to charge someone, often someone who has many arrests and convictions under their belt and you bring them to court just to see them walk out with a slap on the wrist and a smile on their face you can understand their frustration.

We see headlines with a scumbag walking away with many previous convictions and we throw our arms up. Now imagine the Guards who have worked to get those convictions(knowing full well the scumbag has many more crimes they can't get him or her on) watching that up close, day after day, year after year. That goes for crime in general, Travellers add the extra spice of being even harder to pin down, never mind the "cultural sensitivity" stuff.

Take sulky racing on the roads. The Guards have to try and stop it safely. Not so easy when the types doing it are much less likely to cooperate. Then when they do stop it they're surrounded by dozens of decidedly unhelpful all the way up to openly aggressive men. So they charge a couple. What happens then? A fine, if that?

No, the rank and file Guards I don't blame. I do blame policy makers and the upper ends of the Irish legal system.

Neyite

Avi Thundering Tearful wrote: »

And why have traveller children been made to change out of their uniforms before leaving school? Why would a school enforce this? I'm inclined to believe it's because they don't want to be seen by members of their own community to be attending school.

In some UK schools in deprived areas teachers provide uniforms rescued from lost property for children who don't have any of their own, and launder them each week as well. I've read of teachers having boxes of cereal or spare underwear, socks or sanitary products in their cupboards for children coming from neglectful homes. That's so the children don't get picked on for being different or for being dirty and just get to be the same as everyone else.


So I'd say it's more likely coming from a place of kindness (and knowing that if the uniform went home it would soon get destroyed or not be seen again) rather than a place of snobbery from staff.

Gravelly

Wibbs wrote: »

I don't blame the Guards TBH Wex. Yes you have the odd muppet in the force and the putting their time in types like any other job, but having known a few down the years they're more frustrated than the average Joe with the judicial system. If you've spent months gathering evidence to charge someone, often someone who has many arrests and convictions under their belt and you bring them to court just to see them walk out with a slap on the wrist and a smile on their face you can understand their frustration.

We see headlines with a scumbag walking away with many previous convictions and we throw our arms up. Now imagine the Guards who have worked to get those convictions(knowing full well the scumbag has many more crimes they can't get him or her on) watching that up close, day after day, year after year. That goes for crime in general, Travellers add the extra spice of being even harder to pin down, never mind the "cultural sensitivity" stuff.

Take sulky racing on the roads. The Guards have to try and stop it safely. Not so easy when the types doing it are much less likely to cooperate. Then when they do stop it they're surrounded by dozens of decidedly unhelpful all the way up to openly aggressive men. So they charge a couple. What happens then? A fine, if that?

No, the rank and file Guards I don't blame. I do blame policy makers and the upper ends of the Irish legal system.

I'd agree - I've a good friend who is a guard in a town notorious for it's traveller population, and he is extremely frustrated by the system. He has repeatedly investigated crimes carried out by one particular traveller family, who have 3 generations of criminals currently active. He has caught members of this family numerous times (three of them over a dozen times each) and when the case is brought to court, they are given suspended sentences, or silly 3 or 4 month sentences, where they only serve a few weeks. He has had victims blame him, he has been assaulted by members of this family, and he knows of literally hundreds of crimes they have committed that they have gotten away with, yet he knows the next time he has one of them in court, they will walk again.

He said there is a solicitor who has a constant flow of this family on legal aid - as in, he has no week during the year in which he hasn't a case with one of them involved, and this solicitor laughs and jokes with the judge every time one of them are up in court - like it's a game to the two of them, where they both make a good living out of keeping these guys on the streets.

When it comes to criminals, and travellers especially, it is the law-abiding public that are discriminated against, and who deserve an apology and restitution.

badtoro

Throw on another referendum with the Presidential election, results should be good fun 😂

RobertKK

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/history-of-irish-traveller-community-to-be-added-to-school-curriculum-37361521.html

THE history and culture of the Irish Traveller community is to take its place on the school curriculum.

Education Minister Richard Bruton has asked the State curriculum advisory body to come up with recommendations about how it should be done.
The landmark move comes in the wake of the 2017 decision to recognise the ethnicity of the Traveller community.

I guess everyone is happy with that.

SEPT 23 1989

RobertKK wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/history-of-irish-traveller-community-to-be-added-to-school-curriculum-37361521.html



I guess everyone is happy with that.

I have said it before in a previous thread about this move

I will remove my child from class and educate them myself on this subject if this is brought in

Edgware

Well the Government want to abolish general history. The kids wont know about James Connolly or Daniel O Connell but will get the full rundown on Frog Ward and Fat Andy McDonagh

Franz Von Peppercorn

Edgware wrote: »

Well the Government want to abolish general history. The kids wont know about James Connolly or Daniel O Connell but will get the full rundown on Frog Ward and Fat Andy McDonagh

Really. When was that suggested?

Edgware

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Really. When was that suggested?

Check it out yourself as you have ****all else to do

SEPT 23 1989

Edgware wrote: »

Well the Government want to abolish general history. The kids wont know about James Connolly or Daniel O Connell/quote]

We don't want to give the kids any ideas about freedom

Just get them ready to be drones for the multinationals

NasserShammaz

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I have said it before in a previous thread about this move

I will remove my child from class and educate them myself on this subject if this is brought in

Don't worry ,if it will detail their contribution to the arts,business,culture, literature, society in general they can print it on a post it

SEPT 23 1989

NasserShammaz wrote: »

Don't worry ,if it will detail their contribution to the arts,business,culture, literature, society in general they can print it on a post it

Excellent post

whisky_galore

Travellers need to be saved from their own, by now, debased 'culture', if you can even call it that.
There's no good reason why any family should live in a caravan in a halting site or at the side of the road in this day and age or to deprive children of a full education. I don't see why this lifestyle has to be catered for in any shape or form.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Edgware wrote: »

Check it out yourself as you have ****all else to do

I’m a busy man. Can you post the link, thanks.

NasserShammaz

whisky_galore wrote: »

Travellers need to be saved from their own, by now, debased 'culture', if you can even call it that.
There's no good reason why any family should live in a caravan in a halting site or at the side of the road in this day and age or to deprive children of a full education. I don't see why this lifestyle has to be catered for in any shape or form.

agreed.

But how much time money and resources should we piss away on that then , and how much have we pissed away already.

every other group with needs losses out on much need funding when resources are wasted on one group that never evolve to become less dependent. From children with special needs to mens sheds they all need help and they all deserve it. When do we shout stop the first time they wreck their halting site ,the second third, the 1st,2nd ,3rd house they get evicted from. The next council lands they destroy and cost the council 100's of thousands in cleanup

Johnny Jukebox

RobertKK wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/history-of-irish-traveller-community-to-be-added-to-school-curriculum-37361521.html



I guess everyone is happy with that.

Yep, as long as Padraig Nally has his own chapter....

NasserShammaz

Johnny Jukebox wrote: »

Yep, as long as Padraig Nally has his own chapter....

on the cover

Vincent Vega

Having spent a number of years working in a Traveller community organisation, I've gotta say that every time the ever predictable anti-Traveller circle jerk thread pops up I find it so disheartening that I struggle to read through it.

First off, I won't deny that there are MAJOR issues both within the community itself and their interactions with the settled community. Children born into the community have fortune or misfortune of having this cross to bear from the off, and little choice over whether to carry it or not.
Traveller identity may as well be an X tattooed on their head.

It's obvious that plenty of people here have had negative experiences with individual Travellers, but I would bet that the majority would also avoid all interaction with or even prefer to ignore the existence of Travellers unless they are the ones forcing contact.
I think this skews peoples perception somewhat, as they can only relate stories of the time the Traveller engaged with them for a specific reason, and rarely of any form of meaningful or even everyday interaction that wasn't either transactional or disturbance based.

I've found there to be plenty of kind hearted and good minded people within the community, who surprisingly when treated as a human being, listened to, acknowledged, or simply shown the minimum of respect tend to respond in a similar fashion.

I'm not going to try to excuse the many issues people have had with Travellers, but I really wish people would put some thought into how their troubled existence within our society has come about.

And as opposed to the straight out bigotry and mud slinging seen in every second post here, which let be honest, pretty much only helps to further the rift, to try and at least think about some form of compassionate approach to resolving the issues between us and them.

As it stands, to even identify as a Traveller pretty much makes you a pariah. It doesn't matter if you're a good or bad person. Barely anybody will want anything to do with you unless you're making a big enough fuss to be heard.

It may help to imagine this from a child's perspective, going to school and experiencing the effects of it, and then going home to be reminded that that's just how it is. And so the cycle continues.

byhookorbycrook

Vincent Vega wrote: »

It may help to imagine this from a child's perspective, going to school and experiencing the effects of it, and then going home to be reminded that that's just how it is. And so the cycle continues.

Are you claiming that schools, as policy, discriminate against travellers?