The 70's and 80's in Ireland

For Forks Sake

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Rose-tinted bullshít

Getting a job, any job, was hard. Getting a secure job with a decent wage was very hard.

Even then, getting a mortgage wasn't easy and you needed to be saving steadily with an institution for years before they'd even consider you.

I know a few people who bought a house on a single salary in late 80s/early 90s but none had it easy and were relying on old furniture donated by friends, etc. for the first few years and they'd be lucky to afford any "refurbishment" above a lick of paint for years either.

Anybody worried about likes on social media is a fool, but fools are not a new phenomenon

Also, once you'd jumped through the hoops of getting the mortgage, you then had the pleasure of paying 12-16% interest on it as well

The highest rate reached in each year is shown below – based on the average rates of “representative building societies” from the Central Bank via the CSO

1975 11.25%
1976 12.5%
1977 13.95%
1978 14.15%
1979 14.15%
1980 14.15%
1981 16.25%
1982 16.25%
1983 13.0%
1984 11.75%
1985 13%
1986 12.5%
1987 12.5%
1988 9.25%
1989 11.4%
1990 12.37%
1991 11.95%
1992 13.99%
1993 13.99%

Tony EH

^
But you could buy a house for £8000. Which, while the interest rates were high, still didn't mean you were hocked into debt until you were an OAP.

With housing/jobs etc in the 80's there can be a tendency to look back with rose tinted glasses, but there's also the flip side of unreasonable doom and gloom too.

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

My sis and her hubby, for instance bought a 3 bed house and he comfortably paid the mortgage on his single modest wage. That kind of thing just doesn't even exist now.

Mad_maxx

buried wrote: »

I don't like most modern pop music at all, and I do try give everything a chance, lots of it is really poor but that LP from last year by 'The Weeknd' called 'After Hours' is really really good. Bought it on vinyl and it sounds fantastic. The producers have definitely utilised the old time synthesizer's and drum machines from the 80's.

I only know one song by " The Weekend " but it's the best pop song since Daft Punk,s " Get Lucky "

fryup

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Also, once you'd jumped through the hoops of getting the mortgage, you then had the pleasure of paying 12-16% interest on it as well

my old man could only get a mortgage from the local County Council, all other lending institutions didn't want to know and he had a steady job with a modest income

JupiterKid

fryup wrote: »

my old man could only get a mortgage from the local County Council, all other lending institutions didn't want to know and he had a steady job with a modest income

Right up to the early 1980s local authorities advanced the majority of mortgage loans to home buyers as banks and building society loans were difficult to obtain for those on modest or even moderate incomes.

randd1

JupiterKid wrote: »

Right up to the early 1980s local authorities advanced the majority of mortgage loans to home buyers as banks and building society loans were difficult to obtain for those on modest or even moderate incomes.

They used to build homes out the country too for long term rent to buy schemes for families.

My in-laws had a house built for them back in the late 70's by the council, at the time they were offered rent, or long term rent to buy which was dearer. They went with the rent to buy for 30 years, and after the 30 the house was theirs. I think it only cost them 30 grand overall.

The council could afford to do it back then as building a house wasn't the expense it is now, new standards and labour have increased the costs exponentially.

Also one of the reasons the costs were so low back then was many builders or tradesmen worked for the councils. The jobs were lower pay, but were permanent jobs. These days they're private contractors charging what they can for profit.

Hotblack Desiato

NewbridgeIR wrote: »

I think that's an unnecessarily harsh take - certainly the 99% statistic.

99% of artists certainly weren't crap
99% of records released weren't
99% of individual records bought though - aka units shifted - I might be pessimistic but probably not all that far off either. There was (and is and always has been) a lot of very big selling absolute garbage.

I remember an interview with Thurston Moore when he was asked about why 80s music was so bad, he said that was wrong there were thousands of great records released in the 80s and he's right. But the vast majority of them weren't getting much in the way of promotion or radio play or sales, so outside of small devoted fan bases (no internet then of course) it was hard for people to even find out that these artists existed, and they sold in very small numbers.

Not sure why you'd include Enya in that list while Kenny Rogers has some good tunes.

We're going to have to agree to differ on that one.:pac:

Are people still slagging off James Last?

Well I didn't whether you like that musical style or not there was no doubt he was very talented indeed, my parents liked him, and it didn't make me run out of the room screaming like plenty of other stuff from that era I could mention... anybody who can keep a big band or orchestra going for years without state funding etc. must be doing something right as it costs a fortune.

fryup

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

That list concentrates on the 90s and 00s but believe me there was just as much utter shyte around at the top of the charts in the 70s and 80s.

People think teenagers bought all the records but the stuff aimed at a middle aged audience sold more highly if anything. Julio Iglesias has sold over 100 million records, Englebert Humperdinck over 140 million... then there are the horrors of Kenny Rogers, Enya, Daniel O'Donnell, Garth Brooks...

Yes but that's what i loved about 80's chart music - there was something for everyone, you watch any edition of TOTP's back then and you'd have anything from heavy metal, country music, electro pop, ska, reggae even the odd novelty song thrown in - all tastes were catered for.

That's why i believe the 80's was the best decade for music...i just regret not going to more concerts back then, cause as i said previously there's fek all talent out there these days.

NewbridgeIR

fryup wrote: »

Yes but that's what i loved about 80's chart music - there was something for everyone, you watch any edition of TOTP's back then and you'd have anything from heavy metal, country music, electro pop, ska, reggae even the odd novelty song thrown in - all tastes were catered for.

That's why i believe the 80's was the best decade for music...i just regret not going to more concerts back then, cause as i said previously there's fek all talent out there these days.

I agree. I bought my first record in 1981 so lived through it. It was hugely diverse, particularly in the first half of the decade.

NewbridgeIR

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

99% of artists certainly weren't crap
99% of records released weren't
99% of individual records bought though - aka units shifted - I might be pessimistic but probably not all that far off either. There was (and is and always has been) a lot of very big selling absolute garbage.

I remember an interview with Thurston Moore when he was asked about why 80s music was so bad, he said that was wrong there were thousands of great records released in the 80s and he's right. But the vast majority of them weren't getting much in the way of promotion or radio play or sales, so outside of small devoted fan bases (no internet then of course) it was hard for people to even find out that these artists existed, and they sold in very small numbers.

Agree, there were absolutely loads of great albums released in the 1980s; many of them got more critical acclaim rather than sales. But there were quite a few big selling classics as well - I think that is where I diverge from the view of others - it's not an either / or situation.
Take 1986 - my favourite album was Felt's Forever Breathes The Lonely Word on Creation Records. But almost as good were: Pet Shop Boys - Please, Prince - Parade, Janet Jackson - Control, David Sylvian - Gone To Earth, The Fall - Bend Sinister, A-Ha - Scoundrel Days, Go-Betweens - Liberty Belle & The Black Diamond Express, Genesis - Invisible Touch, Peter Gabriel - So, Husker Du - Candy Apple Grey, Sonic Youth - Evol, The Smiths - The Queen Is Dead

fryup

NewbridgeIR wrote: »

Peter Gabriel - So,

amazing album - still sounds contemporary all these years later

ohnonotgmail

NewbridgeIR wrote: »

Agree, there were absolutely loads of great albums released in the 1980s; many of them got more critical acclaim rather than sales. But there were quite a few big selling classics as well - I think that is where I diverge from the view of others - it's not an either / or situation.
Take 1986 - my favourite album was Felt's Forever Breathes The Lonely Word on Creation Records. But almost as good were: Pet Shop Boys - Please, Prince - Parade, Janet Jackson - Control, David Sylvian - Gone To Earth, The Fall - Bend Sinister, A-Ha - Scoundrel Days, Go-Betweens - Liberty Belle & The Black Diamond Express, Genesis - Invisible Touch, Peter Gabriel - So, Husker Du - Candy Apple Grey, Sonic Youth - Evol, The Smiths - The Queen Is Dead

one of my favourite albums ever. I seen them live in 1985 or 1986. They were playing the Trinity Ball so they did a free gig outside the Pav at lunchtime. I bunked off school with a mate to see them.

saabsaab

Every decade brings out a major musical art(ist)


30's Bing Crosby
40's Frank Sinatra
50's Elvis
60's Beatles
70's Abba
80's M jackson
90's M carey
00's Eminem
10's Taylor Swift

wavyhair

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Pop music has always been ephemeral and throwaway by its nature, and 99% of it has always been shyte.



That list concentrates on the 90s and 00s but believe me there was just as much utter shyte around at the top of the charts in the 70s and 80s.

People think teenagers bought all the records but the stuff aimed at a middle aged audience sold more highly if anything. Julio Iglesias has sold over 100 million records, Englebert Humperdinck over 140 million... then there are the horrors of Kenny Rogers, Enya, Daniel O'Donnell, Garth Brooks...

You thought you'd forgotten all that crap, now I've reminded you of it I'm sure you'll thank me later

My Dad loved Englebert Humperdinck, I have great memories of listening to Quando, Quando, Quando, The Last Waltz and many more on repeat while we went on our adventures in the Fiat 127!

fryup

NewbridgeIR wrote: »

It was hugely diverse, particularly in the first half of the decade.

strangely it was after Live Aid in 85, that things started to gradually decline musically

Vestiapx

saabsaab wrote: »

Every decade brings out a major musical art(ist)


30's Bing Crosby
40's Frank Sinatra
50's Elvis
60's Beatles
70's Abba
80's M jackson
90's M carey
00's Eminem
10's Taylor Swift

I feel you must be wrong about the 90s

NewbridgeIR

Vestiapx wrote: »

I feel you must be wrong about the 90s

Massive sales in the US. Holds the record for the most #1s by a solo artist.

NewbridgeIR

fryup wrote: »

strangely it was after Live Aid in 85, that things started to gradually decline musically

A lot changed after Live Aid. Three rising stars (all who played on the day) - Paul Young, Howard Jones & Nik Kershaw all released album #3 in 1986 and each one lacked the commercial success of their first two LPs. Tide changed for them.

saabsaab

Vestiapx wrote: »

I feel you must be wrong about the 90s

Probably, a few contenders.

tdf7187

My recollection is that in Dublin there was a lot of graffiti around, and areas that were and are quite central were quite run down. Some still are (for example, Sherriff Street environs) but most have cleaned up and 'gentrified'. Some of this atmosphere of decay seemed to return during the 2008-2011 recession, but perhaps not as bad.

Tony EH

NewbridgeIR wrote: »

A lot changed after Live Aid. Three rising stars (all who played on the day) - Paul Young, Howard Jones & Nik Kershaw all released album #3 in 1986 and each one lacked the commercial success of their first two LPs. Tide changed for them.

That had a lot to do with the fact that that pop new wave thing of the early 80's was effectively over by that time and it was now the time of bands like U2. Not so much for Paul Young, mind you. But he was probably always going to experience a dip anyway.

But the binky bonky keybaord pop of Jones and Kershaw was part of a trend that was always going to die when the trend did.

Strangely enough, I've started to kinda enjoy some of Howard Jones' stuff in recent times, while I wouldn't have been drawn to it before. But christ, if I have a look at what passes for pop music in modern times, it would make me long for the days of early 80's pop music, like Jones and Kershaw.

L1011

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Also, once you'd jumped through the hoops of getting the mortgage, you then had the pleasure of paying 12-16% interest on it as well

At one stage, there was a brief postal strike and when it ended, my Dad received either three or four successive .25% increase letters in one day from ICS.

That said, the house cost less than 3x salary on a fairly normal single income!

Parents bought in mid/late '85, house was delayed over winter and they moved in early '86. Found an Evening Press writeup from early '85 for the estate - £24,000 for two bed bungalows, "just under £30,000" for a 3 bed semi and £35,000 for the four bed semi they bought. £1,000 FTB grant was availed of too. Average industrial was ~£12k by then.

Combined salary to buy a new four bed semi in a Dublin commuter belt town now, even assuming a similar % deposit, would be many, many multiples of the average industrial now, or even of more era-appropriate equivalents. Our neighbours on the same road in the same gaffs included two taxi drivers, a pub band member, a panel beater and two soldiers - most buying on one salary.

Of course, the reason the gaffs were cheap was the economy was in the toilet. I bought in similar times (2012) for a mortgage 3x salary (plus a 80s size deposit), albeit a barely habitable 70s wreck.

NewbridgeIR

Tony EH wrote: »

That had a lot to do with the fact that that pop new wave thing of the early 80's was effectively over by that time and it was now the time of bands like U2. Not so much for Paul Young, mind you. But he was probably always going to experience a dip anyway.

But the binky bonky keybaord pop of Jones and Kershaw was part of a trend that was always going to die when the trend did.

Strangely enough, I've started to kinda enjoy some of Howard Jones' stuff in recent times, while I wouldn't have been drawn to it before. But christ, if I have a look at what passes for pop music in modern times, it would make me long for the days of early 80's pop music, like Jones and Kershaw.

IMHO Howard Jones kept the quality up - even the unsuccessful albums as far as 1992's In The Running are decent. Human's Lib is brilliant. Nik Kershaw likewise (1989's The Works is surprisingly good). They just couldn't hit the top 40 anymore.

Paul Young's No Parlez was one of my earliest albums; always sad when I see it in a charity shop as it has good memories associated with it.

dasdog

This guy captured some excellent shots of 80's Dublin.

https://twitter.com/DavidJazay/status/1359781240434532352?s=20

If you don't like or use Twitter there are plenty more here:

https://photomonitor.co.uk/interview/dublin-before-the-tiger

Tony EH

NewbridgeIR wrote: »

IMHO Howard Jones kept the quality up - even the unsuccessful albums as far as 1992's In The Running are decent. Human's Lib is brilliant. Nik Kershaw likewise (1989's The Works is surprisingly good). They just couldn't hit the top 40 anymore.

Sure. But the trend they were part of died, so the sales dried up. I haven't listened to much of their later material, but there is probably some decent stuff there. In the case of Jones, especially, because he was a guy who wrote and composed his own stuff. So, if he's capable of songs like 'Things Can Only Get Better' and 'Like to Get to Know You Well', then he's got to have some more good stuff in him.

It's just that when you are part of a scene, as it were, and people drift away from that, you kinda go out with the tide as well.

Hotblack Desiato

Inevitable when an act gets popular with a young teen audience, after 18 months or so they've moved on to the next thing.

Mad_maxx

randd1 wrote: »

They used to build homes out the country too for long term rent to buy schemes for families.

My in-laws had a house built for them back in the late 70's by the council, at the time they were offered rent, or long term rent to buy which was dearer. They went with the rent to buy for 30 years, and after the 30 the house was theirs. I think it only cost them 30 grand overall.

The council could afford to do it back then as building a house wasn't the expense it is now, new standards and labour have increased the costs exponentially.

Also one of the reasons the costs were so low back then was many builders or tradesmen worked for the councils. The jobs were lower pay, but were permanent jobs. These days they're private contractors charging what they can for profit.

The state can't build cheaper, building standards today are light year's ahead of what the councils threw up as acceptable

Its pointless to use those times as an example for today

Mad_maxx

fryup wrote: »

Yes but that's what i loved about 80's chart music - there was something for everyone, you watch any edition of TOTP's back then and you'd have anything from heavy metal, country music, electro pop, ska, reggae even the odd novelty song thrown in - all tastes were catered for.

That's why i believe the 80's was the best decade for music...i just regret not going to more concerts back then, cause as i said previously there's fek all talent out there these days.

For catchy throwaway pop, the 80,s was the best, watch old TOTP on BBC 4 and there were no duds in the top five hardly ever

The past two decades have been awful for music

The 90,s was great too but not as good as the 80,s for fun chart stuff

Mad_maxx

fryup wrote: »

strangely it was after Live Aid in 85, that things started to gradually decline musically

Yes but even what you knew was sh1te artistically, made you smile

saabsaab

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Yes but even what you knew was sh1te artistically, made you smile

Like this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVkU8dDSC9w