Abolish the Dole

CerebralCortex

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Who provide thousands of well paid jobs.

Its up to the Government to close any tax loopholes that might exist, if they took their eye off the ball thats not the companies issue to sort out.

That's the point tho. Governments won't.

CerebralCortex

JupiterKid wrote: »

This thread was bound to happen - because everyone on social welfare is a dirty scrounger sponging off us good decent hard working taxpayers, like ya know....

FFS!! :rolleyes:

I'm a professional in IT and I've needed SWelfare, and I've been treated like an absolute criminal in INTREO for asking for it. Do not get rid of social welfare. You don't know when you may fall on hard times. OP should exercise some empathy for those born into poverty in Ireland. If he thinks scumbags are a menace now, wait until they have no SW cash.

Carsanal

Yes!

CerebralCortex

CerebralCortex wrote: »

I'm a professional in IT and I've needed SWelfare, and I've been treated like an absolute criminal in INTREO for asking for it. Do not get rid of social welfare. You don't know when you may fall on hard times. OP should exercise some empathy for those born into poverty in Ireland. If he thinks scumbags are a menace now, wait until they have no SW cash.

We should be looking into having a UBI (universal Basic Income) to "decriminalise" unemployment. The savings in simply providing such income to all citizens, instead of a web of benefits would be quite substantial.


With a simplified system, fraud will be easier to detect, and anyone can take low paid work without losing out.

Pauliedragon

The Irish government would find a way to blow the whole lot anyway so what's the point.

PistolsAtDawn

Try_harder wrote: »

Some people really want to condemn innocent children to poverty dont they

It's the social welfare lifestyle these innocent childern's parents are exploiting which will result in the same innocent children growing up to become spongers for their lifetime (save for a few of course)

CerebralCortex

PistolsAtDawn wrote: »

It's the social welfare lifestyle these innocent childern's parents are exploiting which will result in the same innocent children growing up to become spongers for their lifetime (save for a few of course)

That's not an argument against social welfare.

thelibertyboy

One thing in relation to this that pisses me off is people that dont use it correctly and just have kids to get it and free homes.
My own personal experience in the past has been while in college studying to get my degree i was working in a nightclub at the time and living at home. i had to move out of home i went into the citizens information and told them and said i cant do the nightclub work and goto college because getting home at 3am and going to college at 9am every morning was just not doable and also i need to make money to keep my self out of the streets. something had to give and her words to me was to leave college and leave my job and give it a few months and they could find me a "course" not realizing i was studying a specific degree for a reason i wasnt just looking to get a "course" in a lot of ways this country is amazing, but when it comes to social welfare its so backwards i was trying to better myselfand alot of people i know are on or went on the dole straight after school and were out every night and hadnt got a stress in life me i was the opposite. just my 2 cents. i dont think we should goto the food stamps systems because the divide in country like the states is ridiculous! i think we should reward the deserving that need it not just give it out to everyone and not check and keep checking are they looking for employment etc.

Lux23

So sick of threads like this - be careful what you wish for because you might find yourself on the dole (or food stamps) one day.

fleet_admiral

P_1 wrote: »

It should be a safety net for when you fall on hard times after you pay into the system not a way of life.

Completely agree, I was out of work for 3 weeks in April for the first time in donkeys years. I felt embarrassed signing on but the woman in the dole office was very helpful telling me `this is what youve paid tax for years for`.

BorneTobyWilde

I think everyone should get the same wage, from a banker to a person who packs shelves. Everyone should be equal, but everyone should work.
Instead of the banker getting 5k a week he should get 1k and 4 shelf packers who actually work harder than he ever will should get 1k a week also.
All five can lead a great lifestyle.

Graces7

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I would stop all those pensioners heading off on exotic foreign holidays on their Social Welfare money. They get a lot more than the people on the dole. Make them spend the money at home.

Excuse me.. I just choked on my banana! I am a pensioner and have not had any kind of holiday for ?? 20 years? Maybe those on private pensions they have worked for?

Glenalla

P_1 wrote: »

It should be a safety net for when you fall on hard times after you pay into the system not a way of life.

I fully agree. My wife has three siblings, 2 of which have opted for a life on the dole and have stated they will never work.

HoboJoe

I live in an area where a bunch of my neighbors retired at 18. The thing is that most Irish people (I am Irish) who vote would destroy a govt that reduced welfare, let alone abolish it.



Each party on election year is basically promising to outspend the other. With the EU in place and free movement of labour (it's a necessity that we are a member imo) it is not possible to establish some fanciful politics where we invest in jobs and not welfare and also lower taxes. I should note that I am married to a "foreigner" and that I have no problem with people moving to work in other countries to better their livelihood.


It is disheartening to work for years to buy the only home that we could afford to find people getting these things for 'whatever you can afford to pay' because they choose to not work and play the game.



What can be done I ask, I can't find anyone or any party to vote for. Maybe it's the PR system or the fact that most people are happy to pay a crazy amount into the PRSI system to get a free tooth cleaning and maternity leave

Ush1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We should be looking into having a UBI (universal Basic Income) to "decriminalise" unemployment. The savings in simply providing such income to all citizens, instead of a web of benefits would be quite substantial.


With a simplified system, fraud will be easier to detect, and anyone can take low paid work without losing out.

Have you done the maths on these savings? How much income are you looking to give everyone?

dxhound2005

Graces7 wrote: »

Excuse me.. I just choked on my banana! I am a pensioner and have not had any kind of holiday for ?? 20 years? Maybe those on private pensions they have worked for?

I haven't had any kind of holiday for 40 years.

Ush1

Ush1 wrote: »

Have you done the maths on these savings? How much income are you looking to give everyone?

Have you looked at the distribution of wealth recently, the amount of income that floats to the top. There is more than enough there to pay everyone a basic income and still leave the rich, well, rich.

HoboJoe

CerebralCortex wrote: »

I'm a professional in IT and I've needed SWelfare, and I've been treated like an absolute criminal in INTREO for asking for it. Do not get rid of social welfare. You don't know when you may fall on hard times. OP should exercise some empathy for those born into poverty in Ireland. If he thinks scumbags are a menace now, wait until they have no SW cash.

I hear you! Short term genuine cases can be bullied and demeaned. You need to apparently become an untouchable by being at it for a few years. Incentives are offered for more that 12 months of service, namely fuel allowance and an extra 20 euro week to do a course. Some of the actually useful courses are only available to those with more that 12 months of service.

You would need another few years in service to move up the housing list as if it is a loyalty scheme. By this stage you are probably better off having a few kids and settling into the life. Bettering yourself by doing courses on your own dime and buying job interview clothes is merely setting you back.



If you are in IT, don't work for less that 30k. Unless it is a means to an end, it is not worth it in my experience.

Billy86

Deleted User wrote: »

We should be looking into having a UBI (universal Basic Income) to "decriminalise" unemployment. The savings in simply providing such income to all citizens, instead of a web of benefits would be quite substantial.


With a simplified system, fraud will be easier to detect, and anyone can take low paid work without losing out.

Have to agree with this, and it's only going to become more prevalent with increased automation. Other roles will appear sure, but it's happening either way so there's no point moaning about it, and a lot of people are going to be 'left behind' without correct provisions in place ahead of time.

4068ac1elhodqr

UBI will become a neccessity before too long.

Across the water the TUC hinted at it, but more-so tore apart the rising gig-economy.
Due to the rise of automation he (McDon') suggests the 4-day working week could become the norm, sweet.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45479544

Pres Higgs also warned a few months ago about the gig-economy,
specifically the lack of worker's rights.

If the super-rich like Bono and the $tr MNC's paid their tax there'd be enough in the pot to go around.

Ush1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Have you looked at the distribution of wealth recently, the amount of income that floats to the top. There is more than enough there to pay everyone a basic income and still leave the rich, well, rich.

What? That's not much of an answer. Universal basic income applies to everyone, or it isn't universal.

Who gets to decide who's "rich"?

dxhound2005

Ush1 wrote: »

Who gets to decide who's "rich"?

The Sunday Times Rich List.

Ush1

Ush1 wrote: »

What? That's not much of an answer. Universal basic income applies to everyone, or it isn't universal.

Who gets to decide who's "rich"?

Anyone who acquires more than 20 times the median income of the average full time employee would be considered rich.


The level of UBI would not be very high, so people would need a job if they want a decent standard of living but it would enable some with one part time job to have a living wage when combined with UBI.


As things are right now, many low paying jobs are insufficient to "make work pay" as the income from them is barely enough to leave the dole.

Graces7

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I haven't had any kind of holiday for 40 years.

Actually when I thought back it was over 40 years for me too. Then I visited friends in France and stayed with them. Long overnight crossing as that was the cheapest way
Loved it but not some kind of glee spree..

Here we go

John from Carlow wrote: »

I believe the Irish government should cut social welfare payments drastically and implement a food stamp program similar to the one currently running in the USA. This would allow the government to free up cash to reduce borrowing and reduce the tax burden on the middle classes. It sickens me that people like Margaret Cash have the money for Sky digital subscriptions, shopping trips to Newry and computers with internet connections to post their drivel on Facebook. It has got to the stage were these people genuinely believe they deserve a reasonable middle-ish class lifestyle at the expense of the state. This may seem harsh to some but it is only fair that people that don't work live in abject poverty and are subjected to all the ills that such a lifestyle predisposes them to. I feel genuine rage that I am paying for other people's way through life; it makes me feel genuinely ill. At the moment the only viable alternative is to move to the US, a country where hard work is rewarded and the likes of Margaret Cash are left were they belong - in the gutter.

Abject poverty is a bit much i think it’s a much bigger issue with living costs being so high but no one should live in poverty but if unemployed I do believe you shouldn’t have more then any one employed even even those on minimum wage

dxhound2005

UBI is the way to go, along with the abolition of retirement ages. Then the unequal distribution of wealth towards the retired population would be reversed.

A good solution to the impending pensions time bomb, and the relative impoverishment of younger workers.

4068ac1elhodqr

The 'golden ticket' for supporting UBI is national productivity, via flexible access to work.

e.g. Mary with 2 kids on UBI can do still do two days per week of 'gig' hairdressing
- all without filling in some booklet followed up by a meeting(lecture) from her welfare case officer.

Joe with a slight disability can just manage two evening 'gig' shifts at a call centre,
again on top of his UBI payments.

There you go, this couple have just added 32hrs pwk to the economy they wouldn't otherwise of done.

As UBI is a universal fixed amount, folks will think again about raising 9+ kids in cramped conditions.

fxotoole

thelibertyboy wrote: »

One thing in relation to this that pisses me off is people that dont use it correctly and just have kids to get it and free homes.
My own personal experience in the past has been while in college studying to get my degree i was working in a nightclub at the time and living at home. i had to move out of home i went into the citizens information and told them and said i cant do the nightclub work and goto college because getting home at 3am and going to college at 9am every morning was just not doable and also i need to make money to keep my self out of the streets. something had to give and her words to me was to leave college and leave my job and give it a few months and they could find me a "course" not realizing i was studying a specific degree for a reason i wasnt just looking to get a "course" in a lot of ways this country is amazing, but when it comes to social welfare its so backwards i was trying to better myselfand alot of people i know are on or went on the dole straight after school and were out every night and hadnt got a stress in life me i was the opposite. just my 2 cents. i dont think we should goto the food stamps systems because the divide in country like the states is ridiculous! i think we should reward the deserving that need it not just give it out to everyone and not check and keep checking are they looking for employment etc.

Shame you didn’t learn proper punctuation in your degree course. Can’t make head nor tail of your post.

fxotoole

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I think everyone should get the same wage, from a banker to a person who packs shelves. Everyone should be equal, but everyone should work.
Instead of the banker getting 5k a week he should get 1k and 4 shelf packers who actually work harder than he ever will should get 1k a week also.
All five can lead a great lifestyle.

Why bother your hole bettering yourself or advancing your career if everyone is paid the same?

Infini

In term's of the dole what should be provided is basic food, drinks, and a roof over one's head. Cash shouldn't be provided unless they're doing something constructive like a course or part time employment. Encourage those who are down on their luck to want to be able to stand and pull their own weight and help em out. What shouldn't be encouraged is the total waster lifestyle of some who sit on the dole for life and do NOTHING credible to try and improve their situation.