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Abolish the Dole

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    #62
    Try_harder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Ninthlife wrote: »
    They should remain as figures on the live registrar. Yes they are working but they are paid from the same DSP budget as if they were still getting jobseekers

    Why? They are working, not looking for work.

    Should Civil Servants be included too? They are working, but its all from the exchequer!


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    #63
    Try_harder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    DontThankMe wrote: »
    Have you got any statistics to back up this statement? Because logic would dictate that people that are earning more money would automatically be contributing mote into the local economy because they would have more disposable income than those people that are on the dole.

    Think about it, its not that difficult.


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    #64
    Try_harder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/04/better-economic-growth-when-wealth-distributed-to-poor-instead-of-rich


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    #65
    CinemaGuy45
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭CinemaGuy45


    In reply to the OP, I think he should look to Hollywood for the solution.:D

    The Purge.
    The Hunger Games.
    Robocop.
    The Road.
    The Walking Dead.
    Judge Dredd.
    Hostel.

    Remember only the strong will survive the zombie apocalypse.


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    #66
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,498 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Ninthlife wrote: »
    They should remain as figures on the live registrar. Yes they are working but they are paid from the same DSP budget as if they were still getting jobseekers

    A lot of them are in back to education schemes. Indeed some university courses are available to people on the dole who can retain their payment while studying. Since students are not counted as unemployed, it think it is fair not to count people on back to education schemes as unemployed.


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    #67
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    DontThankMe wrote: »
    Have you got any statistics to back up this statement? Because logic would dictate that people that are earning more money would automatically be contributing mote into the local economy because they would have more disposable income than those people that are on the dole.

    Not really. Give an extra 100 Euro to the poor and they spend it.the rich they are less likely to as they have enough money.


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    #68
    DontThankMe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭DontThankMe


    Try_harder wrote: »
    Think about it, its not that difficult.

    Well if you take the amount of money they contribute instead of the % of their income then the higher earners are contributing a hell of lot more in tax than the people that are on the dole are. Very easy to say % of income instead of the total they contribute which is always going to be higher for people that are working versus people on the dole.


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    #69
    Ninthlife
    Registered Users Posts: 2,241 ✭✭✭Ninthlife


    Try_harder wrote: »
    Why? They are working, not looking for work.

    Should Civil Servants be included too? They are working, but its all from the exchequer!

    You again missed the point and twisted it to suit your narrative.

    Civil Servants are necesary in providing State services and are as such paid. Im guessing youll have an alternative view on that too

    They are only working as a scheme was devised by Government in how to move people off the live registrar

    Regardless of my answer you will defend them.


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    #70
    mikeym
    Registered Users Posts: 3,984 ✭✭✭mikeym


    And there will be more elderly people on the dole when the government push up the age to claim a state pension.

    How about the people that worked all their lives and hit 60 and is unemployed?

    Its very hard to find a new job at that age.


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    #71
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,001 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    P_1 wrote: »
    It should be a safety net for when you fall on hard times after you pay into the system not a way of life.

    It's a myth that people on the dole have an easy time and it's a lifestyle choice. Social Protection, Intreo, Seetec and the rest are very proactive and tens of thousands of people have had their money cut or suspended for not engaging with the system.


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    #72
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    Heard a mother today crying on the radio as she sees her kids for an hour after crèche each day cause she works to pay taxes etc.

    She's probably leaving her children in a creche all day not because she works to pay taxes, but because she's owned by a house owns a house, and can't actually afford to own it without sacrificing all quality of life. There are huge problems there, but they are not the fault of people on the dole.


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    #73
    Clonmel1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,047 ✭✭✭Clonmel1000


    Eod100 wrote: »
    Maybe thanks your rage and direct it at multinationals avoiding paying millions in tax every year. Easier to kick down though I guess

    Millions? Billions I’d say.


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    #74
    Try_harder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/14/where-the-poor-and-rich-spend-really-spend-their-money/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.350a1bb66dd7


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    #75
    Try_harder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Ninthlife wrote: »
    You again missed the point and twisted it to suit your narrative.

    Civil Servants are necesary in providing State services and are as such paid. Im guessing youll have an alternative view on that too

    They are only working as a scheme was devised by Government in how to move people off the live registrar

    Regardless of my answer you will defend them.

    But they are doing work and helping the local community, I cant see why this is an issue for you?


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    #76
    Try_harder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »
    She's probably leaving her children in a creche all day not because she works to pay taxes, but because she's owned by a house owns a house, and can't actually afford to own it without sacrificing all quality of life. There are huge problems there, but they are not the fault of people on the dole.

    And wasnt CMcC great to give us tax individualisation which saw more dual income families and house prices soar, benefiting... well developers mostly, but we all like to think its great when our house is worth more, regardless of the fact we would need a similar % increase to move if we sold it!


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    #77
    myshirt
    Registered Users Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    DontThankMe wrote: »
    Have you got any statistics to back up this statement? Because logic would dictate that people that are earning more money would automatically be contributing mote into the local economy because they would have more disposable income than those people that are on the dole.

    Please tell me you are taking the piss?


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    #78
    JPCN1
    Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭JPCN1


    There is dignity in work and being given something for doing nothing doesn't help the recipient imo.

    An idle mind and all that...


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    #79
    Ninthlife
    Registered Users Posts: 2,241 ✭✭✭Ninthlife


    Try_harder wrote: »
    But they are doing work and helping the local community, I cant see why this is an issue for you?

    You are trying to make it an issue not me.

    Read back over my replies


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    #80
    Try_harder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Ninthlife wrote: »
    You are trying to make it an issue not me.

    Read back over my replies

    you have an issue with it as it affects live register figures, read over your own posts perhaps???


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    #81
    DontThankMe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭DontThankMe


    myshirt wrote: »
    Please tell me you are taking the piss?

    No I am not

    A person earning €1,000 a week is going to be contributing more compared to a person earning €200 a week.


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    #82
    Try_harder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    DontThankMe wrote: »
    No I am not

    A person earning €1,000 a week is going to be contributing more compared to a person earning €200 a week.

    you miss the %?


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    #83
    Ninthlife
    Registered Users Posts: 2,241 ✭✭✭Ninthlife


    Try_harder wrote: »
    you have an issue with it as it affects live register figures, read over your own posts perhaps???

    No need, I know exactly the point I was making


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    #84
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,498 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Out of a potential working population of well over 2 million, less than 50,000 are on Acitvation Programmes. For some reason those who want to criticise the government always seem to give these much bigger importance. Job Bridge now gone was limited to 8,000 places, but it was made out to be some sort of slave labour scheme.

    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/lr/liveregisterjuly2018/

    Annex - Activation Programmes

    Data up to the end of June 2018 on the number of people availing of a range of programmes targeted primarily at the long-term unemployed (over 12 months) and other welfare recipients is provided in the Annex – Number of persons availing of Activation Programmes table.

    There were 49,005 people availing of these programmes in June 2018, which is a decrease of 4,274 persons (-8.0%) from the previous year, when there were 53,279 people in activation programmes.

    Persons on activation programmes are not counted as part of the monthly Live Register.


  • Options
    #85
    DontThankMe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭DontThankMe


    Try_harder wrote: »
    you miss the %?

    Not talking about percentages as stated in my earlier post they contribute more IN TOTAL compared to people on the dole.


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    #86
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,492 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    I would stop all those pensioners heading off on exotic foreign holidays on their Social Welfare money. They get a lot more than the people on the dole. Make them spend the money at home.

    Still blowing that auld trumpet but not getting much of a tune out of it I see.
    Pensioners paid their taxes all through the years and thus deserve their pension.


  • Options
    #87
    Try_harder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    DontThankMe wrote: »
    Not talking about percentages as stated in my earlier post they contribute more IN TOTAL compared to people on the dole.

    You disputed my post which had a % you quoted it so you can see it in your post too


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    #88
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,498 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Still blowing that auld trumpet but not getting much of a tune out of it I see.
    Pensioners paid their taxes all through the years and thus deserve their pension.

    What do you think of the proposal to have workers contribute to a stand alone scheme to pay for their future pensions. A separate contribution extra to income tax and PRSI? That would be a solution since your are so interested.


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    #89
    Try_harder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Ninthlife wrote: »
    You again missed the point and twisted it to suit your narrative.

    Civil Servants are necesary in providing State services and are as such paid. Im guessing youll have an alternative view on that too

    They are only working as a scheme was devised by Government in how to move people off the live registrar

    Regardless of my answer you will defend them.

    Im glad you feel Civil Servants are necessary- tell that to more people!


  • Options
    #90
    DontThankMe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭DontThankMe


    Try_harder wrote: »
    You disputed my post which had a % you quoted it so you can see it in your post too

    You mean this one:

    Well if you take the amount of money they contribute instead of the % of their income then the higher earners are contributing a hell of lot more in tax than the people that are on the dole are. Very easy to say % of income instead of the total they contribute which is always going to be higher for people that are working versus people on the dole.

    Yes but as I said in the above post I was talking about the the total amount of money someone that is on a higher income compared to someone one the dole contribute. They will contribute more IN TOTAL compared to people on the dole not comparing % of income that they contribute.


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    #91
    Try_harder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    DontThankMe wrote: »
    Have you got any statistics to back up this statement? Because logic would dictate that people that are earning more money would automatically be contributing mote into the local economy because they would have more disposable income than those people that are on the dole.

    That one had my % quote


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