General Ryanair discusion

Shamrockj

Portsalon wrote: »

In that case, why don't they simply leave? Presumably pay and conditions are vastly superior in other aviation companies.

That's very easy for you to say sitting behind a keyboard isn't it? Can you please tell me what company has improved conditions for staff by people just leaving 🙄

View Profile

Portsalon wrote: »

In that case, why don't they simply leave? Presumably pay and conditions are vastly superior in other aviation companies.

They have. Loosing hundreds of experienced aviators over the years.

But that doesn't solve the underlying problem in the company. And also unlike most industries, there aren't an abundance of jobs in Ireland as a pilot so leaving Ryanair means uprooting families.

dubdaymo

View Profile wrote: »

but they do seek the return to the conditions they enjoyed around 18 years ago.
Pay has drastically fallen since this time.

If this statement on pay is fact can you provide actual comparison figures from 2001 and 2019 to support this claim.

As has the basics like loss of licence insurance, uniform, hotels when renewing licence abroad

I'm trying to understand this comment. Am I correct in thinking that you are saying that pilots expect their employer to pay for their personal insurance requirements, their uniforms and their hotels when they have to go abroad in order to renew their own personal flying licences. If my interpretation is incorrect then please explain in more detail.

rivegauche

Shamrockj wrote: »

Can you please tell me what company has improved conditions for staff by people just leaving ��

Mine has. The employees in my team in India are getting pay increases of 7 to 8% a year while European employees are getting a more modest 1 to 3% all because my employer can't afford to lose the employees to competitors.

Portsalon

Shamrockj wrote: »

That's very easy for you to say sitting behind a keyboard isn't it? Can you please tell me what company has improved conditions for staff by people just leaving ��

Yes it is. Well spotted!

As to your second question. When the Irish Air Corps were unable to retain pilots (due, ironically, to the attractive wages and conditions being offered by Ryanair!) they introduced a bonus payment scheme to retain them - and it worked! (Much the same has happened in other areas of the public service too, I can recall an extra allowance being offered to IT staff when they were racing out the door.)

The main outcome of striking is the antagonisation of innocent customers. Strikes rarely achieve very much for the strikers. Indeed, in this era, generally speaking, the only people who really benefit from union membership are the well paid and generously expensed union officials!

Portsalon

View Profile wrote: »

They have. Loosing hundreds of experienced aviators over the years.

And still the planes continue to fly. And aren't they're making hundreds of pilots redundant later this year?

View Profile

dubdaymo wrote:

If this statement on pay is fact can you provide actual comparison figures from 2001 and 2019 to support this claim.

Around 2001 Dublin Captains pay agreement put them on around £94,000 punts basic. That's about €153,000 in today's money. However the basic pay for Dublin Captains now is €85,000!

Now I'm no maths whizz but that's nearly a 50% pay cut.

dubdaymo wrote:

I'm trying to understand this comment. Am I correct in thinking that you are saying that pilots expect their employer to pay for their personal insurance requirements, their uniforms and their hotels when they have to go abroad in order to renew their own personal flying licences. If my interpretation is incorrect then please explain in more detail.

Yes, that's the norm in this industry.
In no other airline in the world do staff have to buy their own uniforms.
Or pay for drinking water while on the job.

rivegauche

View Profile wrote: »

Around 2001 Dublin Captains pay agreement put them on around £94,000 punts basic. That's about €153,000 in today's money. However the basic pay for Dublin Captains now is €85,000!

Now I'm no maths whizz but that's nearly a 50% pay cut.

Whether your figures are right or wrong a pilot employed in 2001 would not have been forced to a salary downgrade putting them on the 85000 you claim they are paid now.
A pilot employed since then would have entered on different remuneration to the pilots who were there earlier.
This is not unusual. In my place of work I'm on a good salary but older Colleagues are on obscene salaries. Salaries so good that they are being bribed by the employer to retire earlier. I wouldn't expect to be paid as well as them as the company was much smaller back then and to give the many, many newer staff the same salary package would absolutely destroy the profitability of the Company which pays my salary. Are the younger employers better trained and more productive; probably but salary expectations based on envy are self-defeating as you'll drive your employer out of business.

View Profile

rivegauche wrote:

Whether your figures are right or wrong a pilot employed in 2001 would not have been forced to a salary downgrade putting them on the 85000 you claim they are paid now.

Yes they have, as every 5 years management introduce a new Pilot Pay Agreement which reduces pay, terms and conditions. Funnily no pilot actually gets a say in this agreement.

rivegauche wrote:

...... I wouldn't expect to be paid as well as them as the company was much smaller back then and to give the many, many newer staff the same salary package would absolutely destroy the profitability of the Company which pays my salary. Are the younger employers better trained and more productive; probably but salary expectations based on envy are self-defeating as you'll drive your employer out of business.

If easyJet, Aer Lingus, Jet2, Transavia, etc can still make record profits while also paying their pilots appropriately then I don't see why Ryanair can't, especially as they are so obscenely profitable.

Front line staff deserve the pay and conditions they work so hard for and no petty comparisons to other industries can justify their disrespectful attitude towards their staff.

Chris_5339762

Portsalon wrote: »

Yes it is. Well spotted!

As to your second question. When the Irish Air Corps were unable to retain pilots (due, ironically, to the attractive wages and conditions being offered by Ryanair!) they introduced a bonus payment scheme to retain them - and it worked! (Much the same has happened in other areas of the public service too, I can recall an extra allowance being offered to IT staff when they were racing out the door.)

Certainly not anymore. I know of a public hospital that got down to 1/3 of their staff because a private hospital hoovered up everyone by giving them better wages and terms/conditions. The public hospital could offer NOTHING to staff to retain them. No bonus, no increments, they weren't allowed to do anything.

rivegauche

View Profile wrote: »

Around 2001 Dublin Captains pay agreement put them on around £94,000 punts basic. That's about €153,000 in today's money. However the basic pay for Dublin Captains now is €85,000!

Now I'm no maths whizz but that's nearly a 50% pay cut.



Yes, that's the norm in this industry.
In no other airline in the world do staff have to buy their own uniforms.
Or pay for drinking water while on the job.

Why did you thank this post from 1123Heavy when the link regarding pay is so grossly at variance with your claims regarding pay.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111010392&postcount=534

1123heavy

rivegauche wrote: »

Why did you thank this post from 1123Heavy when the link regarding pay is so grossly at variance with your claims regarding pay.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111010392&postcount=534

What is at odds?

The link i provided in that post gives basic salary as €6,933/month. That's €83,196 PA.

He states basic pay was €84,000.

For comparison, rated Aer Lingus 320 first officers take that home each year.

rivegauche

It is a very interesting way in which you and View Profile present information.
The package according to the source which you wish to use is €155k.
https://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Ryanair

The only Pilots who would have been earning only base pay recently are those pilots in Eindhoven employed in a Country which has no Ryanair bases because Ryanair shut down the base and they're not flying.

All other Captains would be working and earning considerably more than that.

No mention is made of the salary mix changes between 2001 and now either.

rivegauche

Lapmo_Dancer wrote: »

Plus 42 days leave(at eurowings) versus 28 at Ryanair.

Why didn't you mention a highly desirable 5 on/4 off roster at Ryanair which means a Ryanair pilot has fewer workdays than a Eurowings pilot with bigger blocks of days off.

Why didn't you mention that base pay includes guaranteed hours which have to be worked where as in Ryanair you get paid for the hours you work on top of base pay.

https://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Eurowings_Europe_GmbH

Capt base min CPT basic Salaray incl. guarenteed 75 Duty hours is 99.594 EUR / year
then 20 long years later:
Capt top max. Basic Salaray incl. guarenteed 75 Duty hours is 158.302 EUR / year 8/Oct/18

seems to me that Ryanair's offering is very competitive despite protestations to the contrary.

billy few mates

rivegauche wrote: »

Whether your figures are right or wrong a pilot employed in 2001 would not have been forced to a salary downgrade putting them on the 85000 you claim they are paid now.
A pilot employed since then would have entered on different remuneration to the pilots who were there earlier.
This is not unusual. In my place of work I'm on a good salary but older Colleagues are on obscene salaries. Salaries so good that they are being bribed by the employer to retire earlier. I wouldn't expect to be paid as well as them as the company was much smaller back then and to give the many, many newer staff the same salary package would absolutely destroy the profitability of the Company which pays my salary. Are the younger employers better trained and more productive; probably but salary expectations based on envy are self-defeating as you'll drive your employer out of business.

It sounds to me like you harbor a great deal of jealousy and resentment towards those senior colleagues of yours with their "obscene salaries" and have allowed that bitterness to intrude on your internet life with this seemingly relentless crusade of yours against anyone who earns more than you, in this case the Ryanair pilots.

I personally don't have a problem with someone earning more money than me, good luck to them I say, but I would rather aspire to trying to raise my terms and conditions to their level instead of wishing to see theirs reduced to mine.
Maybe you need to better yourself and find a new job where your talents will be properly valued and rewarded instead of focusing your jealousy on others who have already done that...?
Life's too short for bitterness and envy, do something positive with your life/career before it's too late and use the success of others as a target for your ambition instead of an excuse for your lack of ambition.

Tenger

At this point we have been down in the dirt arguing over the small print in FR salary rates for days. This is the FR discussion not the FR salary scale discussion.

It’s very clear that some posters have sympathy for the staff, others sympathy for the customer, and some only have sympathy for the shareholders.
If this circular discussion over pay rates continue we shall issue forums bans.
This post is the warning.
Personal insults will not be tolerated, forensic stalking of another posters history is also not acceptable.

L1011

I'd also like to add that in the absence of current or pending Irish strike action, industrial relations posts are off-topic and will be actioned. We no longer have an industrial relations thread due to abuse of same, which has started again here

Portsalon

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Certainly not anymore. I know of a public hospital that got down to 1/3 of their staff because a private hospital hoovered up everyone by giving them better wages and terms/conditions. The public hospital could offer NOTHING to staff to retain them. No bonus, no increments, they weren't allowed to do anything.

The incentive scheme to address pilot retention issues in the Air Corps is set to be quickly implemented. While the precise details of a new scheme will have to be agreed, the previous one provided for annual payments of €18,000 for a majority of pilots.

RTE News 04/07/2019.

grimm2005

FYI for anyone flying to the UK next week, update on their pending strike action, all flights going ahead (hope this is okay to post as it may have affected Irish customers):

UK Customer Update:

All Ryanair flights to/from UK airports on Mon 2nd, Tues 3rd & Wed 4th Sept will operate as scheduled thanks to the efforts of over 95% of our UK pilots who have confirmed that they will work their rosters, and will not support this failed 3rd BALPA strike action.

We do not expect any pilot strike disruptions to our schedule to/from our UK airports on Mon 2nd, Tues 3rd & Wed 4th Sept next.

On behalf of our customers and their families we wish to sincerely thank all our UK pilots who have not supported this BALPA strike, and have confirmed they will work as rostered to protect the flights and travel plans of our UK customers and their families over the first week of Sept.

We have invited BALPA to meet with Ryanair (this week) to resume negotiations, and to call off these unsupported and failed pilot strikes, but BALPA have refused to take these repeated invitations.

L1011

Announcement fine. Discussion not

grimm2005

Have noticed that they are launching flights to Georgia in November (Cologne/Milan Bergamo - Tbilisi & Marseille/Bologna to Kutaisi). Interesting as I've never really considered Georgia as a country to visit, may look into it if it looks like a half decent spot to go to via one of the above cities.

EverythingGood

grimm2005 wrote: »

Have noticed that they are launching flights to Georgia in November (Cologne/Milan Bergamo - Tbilisi & Marseille/Bologna to Kutaisi). Interesting as I've never really considered Georgia as a country to visit, may look into it if it looks like a half decent spot to go to via one of the above cities.

Was there in 2017 (for the Ireland game) going again in Oct. (for the Ireland game). Its +4 hours so and an awful place to get to, but Tblisi is beautiful, cheap and lots to see and do.

grimm2005

EverythingGood wrote: »

Was there in 2017 (for the Ireland game) going again in Oct. (for the Ireland game). Its +4 hours so and an awful place to get to, but Tblisi is beautiful, cheap and lots to see and do.

Might check it out as part of a longer trip, it's averaging at around €70 return Milan to Tblisi and I've never been there either so could do both.

waylander2002

Will the cabin crew strike go a head for sep 8th? We have hotel paid for in mallorca, contacted Ryanair and they will do 0, no help to change to a diff day

LeChienMefiant

waylander2002 wrote: »

Will the cabin crew strike go a head for sep 8th? We have hotel paid for in mallorca, contacted Ryanair and they will do 0, no help to change to a diff day

Holiday destinations have been prioritised in the past? Captive market for 3 hours to sell goodies to. Shorter haul to UK more frequent and easier to move around between flights to balance loads.

grimm2005

waylander2002 wrote: »

Will the cabin crew strike go a head for sep 8th? We have hotel paid for in mallorca, contacted Ryanair and they will do 0, no help to change to a diff day

Update from Ryanair on this (not sure if it covers your date though):

Update for passengers flying to/from Spanish airports:

We regret that, due to strike action by a small number of Spanish based cabin crew and their unions SITCPLA and USO, a small number of our 950 daily flights to/from our 26 Spanish airports have been cancelled (6 on Sun 1st & 8 on Mon 2nd Sept).

All affected customers on these flights have *already been notified* by email/SMS today and informed of their options to move flights free of charge or receive full refunds. All other customers who have not already received an email or text notification from Ryanair today can expect their flights to/from Spain to operate as normal on Sun 1st and Mon 2nd of Sept next.

We are doing all we can to minimise customer disruptions. We apologise sincerely for any inconvenience this unnecessary strike by a tiny minority of Spanish cabin crew may cause to our customers and their families.

We remain open to engaging with SITCPLA and USO, and we call on them to return to talks – instead of holding more unjustified strikes – as soon as possible, since the closure of loss making winter bases in the Canary Islands due to the Boeing Max aircraft delivery delays will not be reversed by these pointless strikes.

nerobert

Hi, I’m flying to Tenerife from Dublin on the 6th September is this flight likely to be affected by strikes?

sReq | uTeK

nerobert wrote: »

Hi, I’m flying to Tenerife from Dublin on the 6th September is this flight likely to be affected by strikes?

Similar query

I'm flying out from Reus (spain) on Sunday the 1st. As it departs from Dublin on the first leg of the journey and then returns I assume I'll be unaffected?

Edit, just seen the above. No notification as if yet from Ryanair so assume I'm safe.

Jack1985

Please provide flight numbers.

nerobert

Jack1985 wrote: »

Please provide flight numbers.

Mine is FR7122
Thanks!