The Curse of Defective Concrete (Mica, Pyrrhotite, etc.) in Donegal homes - Read Mod warning Post 1

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325020#Comment_119325020

Such horrendous offensive language. Apologies if it caused you any distress. Deary me.

No matter what they say or do? You can't be serious. They have caused this whole scandal with no regulation on quarries and are refusing to fix it. The proposed scheme is nonsense. It won't even scratch the surface of what's required. They haven't even put proper checks on quarries yet. Estimates so far are 50,000+ buildings affected (including businesses, farm building, public offices etc.) and more being built every day with defective blocks. People are furious and rightly so. Yes obviously I am the problem here 😂

rockdrummer4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290240#Comment_119290240

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NIMAN

So is this another 2.8bn to add to the 2.7bn that the government are going to spend for mica?

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/housing-planning/2022/07/15/repairing-construction-defects-could-cost-state-28bn-as-over-100000-homes-found-to-be-affected/

Up to 100,000 apartments/homes affected.

And yet there are those out there who think the government have a handle on building regulations in this country.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338509#Comment_119338509

Charlie and Joe and Donegal County Council knew sh!te blocks were being produced for a decade. Never stepped in. Never did a thing except make false promises to home owners. The councillors knew also. Same response. They all sat watching lorry loads of defective blocks flying round Inishowen and did nothing. Makes you wonder what was / is going on that made / makes them turn a blind eye. They should all be shouting for quarry regulation. It should be a red line issue. New primary school being built in my town at the moment. I drive by it most days. Maybe it will last 100+ years. Maybe it will be falling down inside 10 years. Ah sure be grand. The shameful display I watched in the Seanad the last few days makes me want to emigrate. Blaney at it again. Shouting "this scheme is 100% - anything else is spin" any time he was challenged. Of course he couldnt back it up. Just kept shouting it. Other Senators advising pensioners to apply for SEAI and disability grants to make up any shortfall needed to rebuild their homes which made a complete mockery of Blaneys 100% claims. Astonishing stuff.

There is a chance of justice in the courts. More than likely someone will have to go to Europe to get it. Its going to take years though. Anyone who doesnt have 100k+ (or cant borrow it) to put with the grant and a house that's basically about to collapse (so they get over the new damage threshold) will have to wait (I'm included in this group). It's abuse of citizens and denying access to justice but that's been the Irish way for a long time now.

slimboyfat

Charlie and Joe and Donegal County Council knew sh!te blocks were being produced for a decade. Never stepped in.

And so did the builders but I don't see anyone blaming them.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348330#Comment_119348330

This point has been discussed previously in this thread. Builders aren't to blame. The illegal block manufacturing process by the quarries and the failure of the council to carry out statutory testing of the blocks is where the problem lies. Nothing to do with builders at all.

Heighway61

Compared to everyone else this is a small problem. I haven't been following the Mica situation much. My mother has been told by a builder that the blocks in her garden wall are mica blocks. Needs to be tumbled and rebuilt. It's about 25m x 2m with 6 pillars. it just tough luck for her?

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119608640#Comment_119608640

Boundary walls aren't covered under the scheme unfortunately.

Heighway61

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119608886#Comment_119608886

Must have slipped my mind for a minute that this is Ireland.

Dr Turk Turkelton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348439#Comment_119348439

A good builder would be doing his own independent testing of the materials he is using.

He should especially be doing this if he is building in a region where everyone says they knew this was going on for years.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119609046#Comment_119609046

Sorry but...this is nonsense. No builder ever carries out independent testing of any materials. Also, everyone didn't know this was going on for years. It only came to light years afterwards. My own builder unknowingly built his own house with defective blocks.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119609046#Comment_119609046

And you were thread banned but you have a short memory it seems. That gets you a forum ban.

Penfailed

Big protest in Dublin on the 24th. The whole country should be there.

SBourgaize

I recall someone saying there were folks in the North that do Mica testing cheaper (but obviously not accepted by the regulator because there's money to be had), was this true and who are they? I'm looking to get a definite answer for my stupid house.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119622482#Comment_119622482

I'm aware of someone looking for a quote from an engineer in Omagh but couldn't get one at the time because said engineer was flat out with other "mica" clients and wasn't taking on any further jobs.

jj880

Its well past time this thread title was changed. Chances of houses having mica only in Donegal are basically zero. Its the government and the council that would like people to think this. Its not true. Anyone with a suite b test from petrolab will have this stated in those test results.

SBourgaize

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119623037#Comment_119623037

Bollocks, I live in hope that the problem actually is "settling cracks", though I highly doubt it.

NIMAN

There was talk maybe 18 months back that the council was going to subsidise the cost of getting a test done, as most weren't able to stump up the 7k or 8k needed to get started on the scheme.

Did anything ever come of this?

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119623465#Comment_119623465

When the new scheme commences it will be a 700 - 1000 euro fee. This is for an engineer to do a visual building assessment. Based on this further testing (including coring) will be carried out free of charge. So there is no 7/8k fee but anything beyond a visual assessment will depend on the damage threshold applied to your building assessment.

water-man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348439#Comment_119348439

Why though if everyone (from politicians, County Council Engineers, County Councilors) knew all about it does make you wonder why the builders turned a blind eye and kept purchasing bricks from them.... No? It's too simple to lay the blame at one door. There was a multitude of failures everywhere with it all beginning at the block suppliers who where lying about the quality of their product. How they are not in jail is beyond me.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119641524#Comment_119641524

It only began to come to light when the (invisible) damage was done. I only noticed hairline cracking about ten years ago. It was another four or so years before I got an engineer out to do a visible inspection report. It was only then that it was noted that Mica may be the problem. By that stage, the building boom had been and gone. It's too simplistic to put blame on the builders.

water-man

Exactly. The only people to blame are the company who put the defective block out there. They should be jailed. And if other people knew about it and still purchased or sold them on well I probably think even less of those to be honest.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119645917#Comment_119645917

100% agreed on that. Question is who's going to do it?

Take a look here:

https://www.inishlive.ie/news/local-news/917253/gardai-probe-councils-purchase-of-mica-houses.html

Now before anyone has a go at McBrearty lets try and look at this article objectively. Here we have the Donegal County Council being investigated by Gardai outside Donegal for allegedly doctoring the professional assessments of these properties to secure funds for their purchase from the central Housing Agency. This is a small window into what home owners have been up against when trying to get any kind of justice for themselves or justice to be served against quarries since 2010.

This is fast turning into a game of who goes under the bus for not dealing with this obvious corruption. Will it be the Council? Will it be the gardai if they do nothing about it (they were sent a file on it in June this year) and it goes further up the chain or gets national media attention? There will be some sweaty palms in the Council Executive this evening after reading this. Say what you want about McBrearty - his style isnt for everyone as has already been discussed in this thread - but he is the ONLY councillor doing anything meaningful (apart from lip service) to expose this kind of corruption in Government. This is why the other councillors tried to throw him out of the Council and stop him asking about these properties this year. If you recall all the adjournments and postponed meetings before the Summer. Here we hopefully have the start of the long grass for these crooks. Long may it continue.

FYI this article in the Inish Times paper edition has much more detail. I recommend it to everyone.

jj880

Fyi meeting of the DCC Mica Committee tomorrow morning at 10.30am chaired by none other than mr private letter councillor Martin McDermott. Going to be an interesting one following on from McDermott's recent interview on Highland Radio in which he stated there will be a review of IS 465 for other deleterious materials besides mica. When that will be completed and what will actually be changed who knows. I expect some kind of announcement during or shortly after tomorrows meeting on what will happen with the 1000 applications to the old scheme that are backed up in the Council at the moment. I suspect they may progress these applications based on the mica only current legislation with the promise of a 40 year state guarantee for another shot at the scheme. I will keep my thoughts on that outcome to myself for now. I find the timing of this meeting suspect given there is a major conference coming up very soon which will discuss other deleterious materials besides mica.

jj880

Defective Concrete Blocks Committe Report dated Wed 9th Nov 2022.pdf

Presentation released after todays meeting was abandoned again by the Council.

Yet more waffle / meetings / promises and can kicking with endless caveats, conditions and get out clauses. This time in the form of a presentation. To listen to Councillor McDermott talking about families crying in their homes would sicken you since he buried a letter well over a year ago from Ambrose McCloskey telling him to do exactly what he is pretending to do today. They know what they should do but are determined to drag it out as long as they can.

Ive started filling in exterior cracks today with acrylic flexible filler. Best to try and get as long as I can out of my blocks until IS465 is challenged legally because the Council/housing agency have absolutely no intention of fixing this properly any time soon.

SBourgaize

Just make sure not to fill it too well, otherwise the damage might be harder to see, and from the vague description in the current scheme it might not be considered damaged enough.

I hate that this is an actual thing to think about. We also have a biiig crack on our front.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119853921#Comment_119853921

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119853981#Comment_119853981

I've taken photos beforehand but thanks for the comment.

We have 2 cracks on the gable coming down the roof. I estimate both are about 8/9 foot long and maybe 2/3mm wide. The rest of the cracks are hairline and could be filled (for now) with thick paint (which I have). Our house isnt deterioting at any fast rate at present and these are the first cracks (house is 16 years old) but still want to seal it up asap as from what Ive seen things can go downhill fast after the initial 1 or 2 crackings + fillings. Here is how Im filling cracks for now with some tubes of flexible exterior acrylic. Cheap and quick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZoMhpY0M-8

The problem I have with the Council / Housing Agency approach is they have the applications. They know what they have to do but instead of just progressing they have yet another talking shop with promises of what they will do. Same as theyve been doing for years. Absolutely no action whatsoever. People dont need another presentation. Just get on with it. Ive read recently there are 200 modular homes planned for Donegal to house refugees. Ive nothing against that but nothing for people with defective blocks? Go live in a caravan or try to rent another house if you can afford it at your own expense seems to be the plan. No action. Nothing. Not even releasing the 15k for people to try and sort something. It's shameful.

I see they still have the neck to include this on slide 5 as I predicted yesterday:

Note also introduction of 40 year guarantee for options 2 – 5 or blended.

They are still pushing this nonsense even now. What does that tell you? Insurance companies wont insure partial fixes. Banks / mortgage companies wont approve loans to buy partial fix houses so you cant sell (unless at a large discount to a cash buyer as I have seen first hand from houses around me). It's really pathetic at this stage. Their intentions here are crystal clear.

jj880

Great journalism today from Catherine McGinty in Derry News. We could do with some quality reporting like this from Donegal media outlets.

NIMAN

It was only a matter of time before examples were found in the North. I'm surprised it took so long.

If Cassidys were the cheapest block supplier in the NW, and were only 12 miles from Derry, there was always going to be houses built in the North with their dodgy product.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860047#Comment_119860047

For sure and the more coverage the better.

The part that stands out for me though is the closing section from Professor Dunlop. It takes a Derry paper (maybe they needed a guy with Dunlop's qualifications to give it more weight from the academic side - fine by me) to print a story calling out what the Council and central government civil servants have been doing for the last 6+ years. I.e. intentionally creating a mica only scheme for Donegal that doesnt fix the problem to save costs.