The Curse of Defective Concrete (Mica, Pyrrhotite, etc.) in Donegal homes - Read Mod warning Post 1

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119233636#Comment_119233636

https://highlandradio.com/2022/06/22/2023-before-inclusion-of-foundations-is-confirmed-in-redress-scheme/

You can listen to it here. You can always count on 1 thing. Charlie to not give you the whole truth. Him and O'Brien are born politicians. 2 of a kind. So the scheme wont be running until at least 2023. How can you proceed with a scheme without the standard it's based on being up to date? Why wasnt IS465 ripped apart in the last 6 months?

Just more of the same. Can kicking. The can must be well battered at this stage. People want a positive result. I want a positive result. But there has to be some basis in reality here. Until McBrearty or Coleman get to the courts with the threat of 1000s of homeowners coming in after them any scheme will be a pretend scheme. The government are just not serious about it at the present time.

SBourgaize

Luckily, the court actions are starting :)

I honestly can't see how this is going to be resolved. If every house in the country was core tested how many would have pyrite present? I would say many many thousands. Is it really plausible to demolish them all to the foundation and rebuild?

Look at some of the housing estates, obviously cracking with pyrite but how can a contractor go in and demolish a house when it's surrounded by other houses? The best option would be to do the entire estate but some won't want it done and won't move out. It would be a health and safety nightmare.

jj880

Research should have been done by now on the building material thresholds for demolition. Of course you wouldn't demolish every house that has pyrite present at any level. But if it's at an unacceptable level or an unacceptable level when combined with other deleterious materials (or a very low cement content) then everyone affected should be entitled to have their house restored to what they thought they were paying for when they purchased.

As for people not wanting to move out in an estate that's very easily resolved. You either move into alternative accommodation or you miss your chance of a rebuild.

Of course this all depends on a well planned functioning redress scheme that should not have people out of their homes for longer than a year. Judging by the pantomime we are seeing at the moment in the Dail that won't be coming any time soon. I still can't get my head around the fact that steps haven't been taken to ensure quarries are not producing sh!te blocks as we speak. It's quite sureal that this hasn't happened yet.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289470#Comment_119289470

As for people not wanting to move out in an estate that's very easily resolved. You either move into alternative accommodation or you miss your chance of a rebuild.

It's not going to be that simple though. You can't have a family living in a house while houses in close proximity, sometimes actually attached, are being demolished to the foundations. It will cause all kinds of environmental risks.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290240#Comment_119290240

Move the whole estate out or do it in stages with a buffer of empty houses as you move through the estate. E.g. Move out houses 1 to 16. Demolish and clear 1 to 8. When that's done move out 17 to 24. Demolish and clear 9 to 16 etc. I don't see the problem unless I'm not getting what you mean?

If alternative rental accommodation is not available I see 100s of modular homes are being built at the drop of a hat for Ukrainians. I've no problem with that as long as the same can be done for our own citizens since it seems the money is available.

In my opinion any redress should be done by estate where possible. Especially in Inishowen. Build modular homes for families to live in as needed as the worst estates are prioritised, buy materials in bulk, clear whole estates and price the whole job in 1 go.

I see a family in my estate that need demolition and they are semi detached. I'm not sure what their plans are. Are they going to move their house 2 metres away from their neighbours, plaster 2 gables, remove their own foundations only and have a concrete path running between the 2 former semi detached houses? They share a chimney brace also. It's ridiculous the way this scheme is being set up. It makes no sense. But from what I've seen so far it's by design. Make it as awkward as possible so less homeowners will be able to avail of it.

jj880

https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/companies/arid-40750992.html

And all the quarries they own in this country still unregulated. Sickening.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290434#Comment_119290434

Move the whole estate out or do it in stages with a buffer of empty houses as you move through the estate. E.g. Move out houses 1 to 16. Demolish and clear 1 to 8. When that's done move out 17 to 24. Demolish and clear 9 to 16 etc. I don't see the problem unless I'm not getting what you mean?

Yes, that's how I imagine it would be done too, but the scenario I'm pointing out is when a householder refuses to move out and doesn't want a rebuild. In an estate of 40 houses you can be certain there will be at least one or two, and to be fair, it can't be forced upon them.

The semi detached one is interesting, I don't think there's any business where theory and practice are so far apart as the construction business. Something might be totally plausible on paper, in theory, but will it actually be put into practice by the contractor?

Detaching and moving a semi detached house is specialist work, and as such will cost a lot more.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290595#Comment_119290595

We'll just have to differ on that. If you lived in a house that was slowly falling to the ground and you were going to miss out on your only chance to get it rebuilt with everyone else in your estate I just cant see anyone refusing. You would be risking homelessness or a rental property that was an asset when you bought it being totally worthless and uninsurable in the very near future.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290670#Comment_119290670

I know what you mean but there are certain groups, people in their 80's, 90's. People who just don't believe it is happening, remember some houses aren't showing damage yet, (damage threshold?) and also, the classic contrary old bollix who won't do it just because everyone else wants him to.

NIMAN

Then there is the issue of affordability.

This scheme isn't 100%, and looks like it's never going to be. So if it becomes and 90/10, what if one person in a semi detached set of houses can afford to proceed, but the other owner can't? They can't tumble one without the other surely?

jj880

When I talk about demolishing whole estates it has to be with a proper 100% scheme ran end to end by the housing agency. It wouldn't work with the current shambles being "debated" in the Dail. Any talk of 80/20, 90/10, SCSI square foot rates, damage thresholds, no foundations etc. will just produce a mess of different individual scenarios for each home. To me thats just nonsense from the government to cause delays.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290240#Comment_119290240

Housing estates are built in phases all the time with people living in them whilst construction works continue. That's a non-issue.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290486#Comment_119290486

They have three in Donegal, none of which are connected to the current issues with defective blocks.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291151#Comment_119291151

You're really not understanding or visualising the scenario I am outlining.

A resident or family in a tightly built estate refusing to move out, as is their right. Therefore the authorities would be unable, due to heath and safety regulations, to demolish the houses above and beside them.

They just won't.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291164#Comment_119291164

This could well be the case now and forever more. However more counties and quarries are getting drawn into this scandal all the time. 13 counties with known defective blocks and counting. I wasn't suggesting CRH are 0% or 100% responsible for this scandal. Without an investigation we'll never know. The main point I was getting at is there is no reason (at the very minimum) that extra checks and regulations can't be brought in to stop more defective materials being used in any building nevermind a redress scheme. Especially when you see obscene profits in the billions being made on concrete products.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291211#Comment_119291211

They certainly would be able to work around them. It happens in construction all the time.

jj880

Charlie to vote with government on the scheme. Joe to vote against stating there should be more time to debate it. Considering he wasnt in the Dail yesterday when there was a vote on extending this time limit I find that baffling. Anyway Charlie is a disgrace. Its a miracle he can even stand up he's so spineless. A traitor to his neighbours and the people of Inishowen and Donegal.

FF/FG/Greens lose their majority but I would bet my mica/pyrite/pyrrhotite infested house they will <SNIP>. Just another Wednesday in Irish politics. Like breakfast, lunch and dinner.

muffler

Mod: No need for that type of comment (now removed)

jj880

Ok can I quote this independent.ie article as I think it's an important point to show what will probably happen in the upcoming vote to pass this scheme?

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/government-to-lose-its-majority-as-fine-gael-td-resigns-party-whip-as-mica-scheme-pushed-through-dail-41819204.html

A number of Independent TDs vote with the Government on a case by case basis and could now make demands for support ahead of the Budget.

NIMAN

This is going to be pushed through and end up with a scheme that is no better than the one that existed 2 or 3 years ago.

Gov have really let the people down on this, after so many promises.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300651#Comment_119300651

Did you watch the 2 hour of amendment debate tonight? I had never watched how they amend a bill before. That was some eye opener. TDs out to the bar. Back in to vote. Out again. Order of amendments determined by the government. All that nonsense AND filibustering by government TDs to run the clock down. Then the guillotine after 2 hours to abandon any amendments further down the list. I have to say I'm ashamed of our political system. I knew it was bad but to watch how it operates tonight was pretty disgusting.

NIMAN

No I didn't watch it.

Glad now I didn't watch it. Would have made my blood boil.

babybuilder

<SNIP>

Mod/ careful now and no, I dont want to hear about the previous instance which was something different from what you suggested.

The action groups don't do themselves any favours with their exaggerated dramatics. The media won't touch them with a barge pole because of their rhetoric. "Thraitor! What about the chidren! There will be suicides! We're being sentenced and we don't know why!"

It's the exact same problem with all legitimate protest movements in this country, they get overtaken and run by the extremes.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119319217#Comment_119319217

They aren't exaggerating though...

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119319217#Comment_119319217

The extremes in this country are corrupt politics and courts prioritising the concrete industry over justice to citizens. No doubt I'll get censored for that but it's true. Be sure to tune into the Senate / Dail voting formality and Micky D rubber-stamping for this bill. Plenty of the traitors you mention will be on show. Lads that visited crumbling homes and stood beside homeowners at protests stating they supported 100% redress now supporting a joke of a bill that will exclude the majority of homeowners. What do you think will be the consequences of that? Children have already been put out of their homes and people have already committed suicide. Is that just rhetoric? Pathetic.

babybuilder

As an alternative to these protests and the proposed formation of a political party, maybe a love in with our hero politicians to thank them for their generosity and kindness. Hugs and kisses all round. Oh no bad idea, covid.

jj880

Seanad vote earlier today. Read the debate section if you want a laugh. Niall Blaney in particular. Ass licking every government minister he can to curry favour and trying to dress up pure garbage as solutions to the problems with this scheme. An information website? At this stage after 12 years he proposes a website and thinks it will somehow help homeowners. An embarrassment to Donegal. No better than Charlie.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/vote/seanad/26/2022-07-11/1/

slimboyfat

@jj880 Have you ever considered that you are the problem and not the government, cause no matter what they say or do, it will always be wrong in your eye. BTW maybe you should go back to the facebook or twitter where anyone with such a hatred for the government will feel at home with that sort of language.