The Curse of Defective Concrete (Mica, Pyrrhotite, etc.) in Donegal homes - Read Mod warning Post 1

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997438#Comment_119997438

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NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997438#Comment_119997438

Yes it is more or less agreed now that there is more to it than just Mica.

I think there has been about another 5 substances named which are causing failure, on top of Mica.

dollylama

Agree with all you've said. I hadn't considered the self regulation aspect could have such a disastrous impact and it seems the manufacturers just went to town altogether and disregarded all and any manufacturing guidelines during the tiger. I've heard from a few boom time home owners, some impacted, some not, that they and their builders knew the blocks were utter dogsh1t when they were building but a dangerous combination of attractive prices, high demand and get it built took hold

dollylama

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997510#Comment_119997510

Yes, I did read some of the comments from the EU scientists in the media recently. But what I find hard to accept is that these 5 substances suddenly appeared on the West coast and started causing problems during the Celtic Tiger. They certainly didn't help things but there's more to it than unacceptable minerals... we may never know and god knows just how widespread this problem could become over the next 10-20 years

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997576#Comment_119997576

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muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997039#Comment_119997039

Mod/ No naming of other companies. Thanks.

jj880

Just in case anyone is wondering. After repeated censoring of my posts and now threats from mods via pm that I will be thread banned I will not be posting here anymore. Good luck to all home owners whether it be via the courts or government redress scheme. If you want any meaningful discussion on this scandal I suggest you do it elsewhere as it certainly wont be allowed on this thread.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120003295#Comment_120003295

Oh dear. Thank you for the support.

It might be worth checking minimum cement content. I distinctly remember reading that blocks in N.I had a considerably higher minimum cement content than here.

I also remember reading somewhere that there was a minimum "curing" time before blocks could be sold at one stage. I wonder if that was adhered to during the Celtic tiger, after self regulation was allowed? I know I bought some for a garden wall, from a different company, and was told a new batch had just been manufactured. I've had no problems with them, in fairness, but they're also only a few rows high, so, no real load bearing needed.

I'm also now wondering why my planning permission insisted on roughcast outer walls. It might be relevant, it might not. I remember thinking it was strange at the time, because my house is on a small farm, and there was no need to match it to surrounding houses.

I'm also going to take this opportunity to wish all of you a fond farewell, and the best of luck.

I'm closing my account, as I have too many caring duties now. I haven't really been active for the last couple of years, anyway.

Thanks for all the chats over the years, folks!

muffler

@[Deleted User] please don't close your account. Take time away and maybe we'll see you posting again in the future. Whatever you decide I'd like to thank you for all your valuable posts in the past.

NIMAN

Interesting to watch another debacle unfold in the country, with an additional 2.5bn having to be put aside now to fix up to 100,000 faulty celtic tiger properties.

That's 5bn to fix badly built properties and unregulated blocks. And that's probably a conservative estimate.

I bet those on the East Coast will be demanding 100% of the costs, which surely should help us up here with our demands for 100% too.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120126623#Comment_120126623

Those up in the big smoke don't need to demand anything. They are getting a full 100% redress scheme and even those who have works completed or ongoing will be fully reimbursed. There's no cap either. It says a lot about this government.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120126728#Comment_120126728

1st and 2nd class citizens.

Caquas

12 years since this issue emerged, 7 years since an official expert Commission blamed the aggregate used in the concrete blocks and 8 months since to Remediation Act, the High Court orders rock sampling. 😫

These houses will have collapsed into rubble before any court judgement is enforced😩

https://www.newstalk.com/news/mica-scandal-court-ordered-rock-sampling-to-go-ahead-at-donegal-quarry-1446153?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1678715664

NIMAN

It's shocking the total lack of action taken so far in this crisis.

But hey, it's Ireland, what do we expect.

Caquas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120354115#Comment_120354115

Yeah, this whole crisis is playing out in the typical Irish fashion. Ruthless gombeen types looking for a quick buck, no regulation worthy of the name, soon the cracks start appearing (literally in this case!) and politicians scramble to hold their seats so the cost is loaded onto the State i.e. the people in general. No accountability, but the public debt is ever-expanding. What's that ticking sound?🙄

Remember the pork dioxin scandal 10 years ago? Probably not because the circus has moved on but it cost this State 130,000,000 Euros at a time when we were in the middle of austerity. All because a gombeen in the North sold toxic oil to another gombeen in Dublin who sold it (so cheap!) to farmers who used this sickening poison to heat their piggeries.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/state-pays-out-130m-in-pigmeat-dioxin-scare-1.477714

Here's a gem from the Comptroller and Auditor General's report that sums up the pork dioxin scandal

He also noted the department’s audits of the feed production industry found “compliance deficiencies” with regulations in all cases. While many of these instances were minor, the high level of non-compliance with feed safety and hygiene regulations suggested a need for improvement, he said.

Overall the department coped “reasonably well” with the administration of the compensation scheme, the comptroller found.

In short, the Department of Agriculture was no good at regulation but paid out compo to all-comers.

Come back in 10 years and we'll hear the same story about Mica blocks, only the cost will be one hundred time greater.

Caquas

Turns out this thread should be "curse of the pyrrhotite", not mica.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2023/03/15/defective-concrete-blocks-in-donegal-not-caused-by-mica-study-claims/

This will add another five years to the court cases 😱

Penfailed

Eventually got past Stage 1. From what I've heard, Stage 2 is as much of a ballache as the first stage. Something to look forward to...

firemansam4

Just looked up this thread again, haven't posted here in quite a while, also see that nobody else has posted here in a while either.

Anyway, In previous posts I mentioned I might have a concern on my own house, with a few suspicious cracks appearing over the years, the cracks have got somewhat worse since then, but nothing like I have seen on other badly effected houses.

So recently a neighbour on my estate made up of 10 houses (Which are all identical, built by the same builder at the same time) just recently got an engineers report done which shows: Free Muscovite mica as a percentage of cement paste at 6 percent.

It then states the risk level as low/medium

However it does show Sulphide minerals at less than 0.1

I'm contemplating now whether I should start looking into the scheme myself now, however at present I don't think enough damage is showing on the outside of my house yet in any case.

I also wonder if a new enhanced scheme is agreed would they put a time limit for applications on it?

NIMAN

Noone has posted in a while, probably due to the nature of the scheme. Its very slow.

Also, I know someone who has had their house tested and told it would need demolished, but they are not allowed to proceed on the scheme at present as the cracks on the outer wall are not large/wide enough to insert a euro coin into.

So the fact that they have tried to keep on top of the cracks is going against them, for now.

Don't see the logic in this at all. So you'd actually be better to let your house go to ruin as quickly as possible, so you can get on the scheme quicker. Only in Ireland.

SBourgaize

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458951#Comment_121458951

Yep, also leaving mine to get worse. It's an annoying way to decide who's elligible, but it also took away the cost of core testing.

Interestingly, at least 2 neighbours are selling their houses (up on daft and everything) and another is currently covering all their cracks and replacing windows.

Edit: I just looked them up, and one has a favourable mica report, interesting.

NIMAN

I assumed you couldn't proceed on the scheme without core testing.

Technique

There are houses currently being advertised as mica free which actually have mica.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121470418#Comment_121470418

They won't sell without a core testing I'd guess.

Would you buy a house without a core testing? Would an engineer or lender sign it off without proof it's Mica free?

Technique

I'd still be wary of a house that has been core tested, especially if done by the seller in order to sell the house.

SBourgaize

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121469890#Comment_121469890

It was updated to just be a report from a qualified engineer, based on an inspection.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121471500#Comment_121471500

OK.

The person I know who was told they can't proceed on the scheme cos the cracks aren't wide enough, also has had a coring done and the mica levels are so high they have been told it needs demolished.

Not sure why they'd be held up.

Technique

The engineer's report classifies the house into one of four categories. Categories 1 and 2 recommend demolition, Category 3 recommends outer leaf replacement, and Category 4 is no action required.

This is from memory of reading my own report, happy to be corrected if this is not the case.

NIMAN

I don't see the logic.

Core test shows you need demolished, engineer comes out and looks at your house and tells you the cracks aren't wide enough, yet.

Technique

If a core test was done, why did they then get an engineer report? Or did the council send the engineer?

I have no core test done, just an engineer's report which recommends demolition. I'm in the process of submitting an application based on this report.