The Curse of Defective Concrete (Mica, Pyrrhotite, etc.) in Donegal homes - Read Mod warning Post 1

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119001712#Comment_119001712

To be honest, not that I have spare 50k to be throwing around but if someone with a 20 year old typical draughty poorly insulated house gets a new house built to current standard and all brand new, 50k for example of additional outlay would seem like a bargain.

Plenty people are spending that kind of money on house upgrades at 20 years old.

jj880

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22089005/

An interesting point raised at 07:40 here by engineer Aidan O'Connell.

He thinks that most if not all quarries in the country have product liability insurance but that it would NOT cover deleterious materials.

This is very important as we know there was a letter from a solicitor saying Cassidy's did not have insurance to cover this disaster.

Then it was found out that quarries can not operate without insurance due to processes at the public tender offices in County Kerry.

What if what Mr O'Connell says here is true? That quarries are insured but that the insurance in question just does not cover this scenario?

If that is the case then it comes down to a straight regulation issue (in my opinion). What kind of self regulation was actually going on and being "enforced" by the government?

If it was newton strength testing only then I think the Government has a huge problem. If they were not testing the contents of aggregate then they could be found liable in the high court.

As for the rest of the clip I notice there is still a strong push to have Donegal designated as a mica problem and Mayo / Clare a pyrite problem. This is nonsense as has been seen recently with Donegal home owner test results showing other deleterious materials from Petro Lab in the UK. Thats another discussion including the need for Pre Legislative Scrutiny of the DCB scheme. I just think it's worth noting what was said in this clip about the scope of insurance quarries in this country have.

jj880

https://www.donegallive.ie/news/local-news/819733/redress-schemes-based-on-guesswork.html

Engineer Ambrose McCloskey sent a letter to Cllr Martin McDermott stating this over a year ago. McDermott tried to bury it and say it was a "private" letter when he should've been shouting for proper research on the effects of mica AND other deleterious materials including pyrrhotite.

But better late than never. This legislation needs scrutinised with proper research carried out to back it up.

muffler

Anyone get a chance to digest the governments latest proposals?

jj880

Heres the official press release:

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/328d7-minister-obrien-welcomes-progress-on-enhanced-defective-concrete-blocks-grant-scheme/

Very little has changed from last November so I dont see much to comment on really. He reckons home owners have been consulted. If hes referring to the working group then yes they were consulted. Consulted and ignored. O'Brien is a great man for high level waffle designed to make the Dubs think we are all ungrateful culchies who are getting a 420k handout. We need to see details of the damage threshold.

NIMAN

Listened to the MAG Pro this morning on the radio. The group aren't happy with it, and it appears to still be an 80:20 scheme at worst.

Apparently now one third of homeowners won't be able to rebuild their homes under the scheme without having to fork our their own money.

Also interesting to note that the government isn't allowing people to downsize when rebuilding. That's a strange one, it is no extra cost to the state and I'm sure many of the homeowners don't need the size of house they are going to rebuild.

jj880

They wont allow downsizing using grant funds based on your original square footage as that would make the scheme accessible to more home owners who cant raise 100k to make up the shortfall (demolition, disposal, poured foundations, inflation on materials, professional fees etc.). Ive said it before - this scheme has to be managed end to end by the housing agency including paying builders or a huge number of people will not be able to access it or finish rebuild. They could end up in a caravan beside a hole in the ground indefinitely or worse.

I think the penny has finally dropped with MAG that all this civilised stuff isn't working. They are making the right noises now. Lets hope the TDs that said they support 100% will back that up when it comes to voting on legislation.

doc22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119206975#Comment_119206975

420k won't be enough? What size is not covered?

here's the SCSI calculator https://scsi.ie/consumer/build/house-rebuild-calculator/

Could someone explain how it's not 100% scheme?

The damage threshold means some/perhaps the majority will only get the outer leaf anyway.

I think it's a joke that the MICA crowd think that if you had a 3000sqft house that was originally put up for next to nothing(relavative to todays costs) that if you construct a more modest house now you should be able to still pocket the grant (with exorbitant building rates) for the larger house.

DrPhilG

Here we go...

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119208244#Comment_119208244

No one is saying that though.

Penfailed

I attended one of the sessions in the Gateway hosted by the Coleman Legal team today. Anyone that's not signed up already should do so IMHO. You've got nothing to loose and everything to gain. That goes for holiday home owners, people who own rental properties, farm buildings, businesses, etc. In the worst case scenario, you'll be on the hook for €1,500 plus VAT. In the best case, the shortfall in the grant scheme will be covered. To me, it's a no brainer.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119208244#Comment_119208244

I thought you were thread banned?

Anyway many homeowners have received rebuild quotes for their houses that this scheme doesn't even come close to covering for the reasons in my last post. Not 3000 sq foot houses either. Thats why it is not 100%.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119208454#Comment_119208454

Well spotted. I thought the tone was a bit trolling.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119208454#Comment_119208454

They are indeed thread banned.

1 week forum ban applied.

Furze99

I've always thought a loan scheme is the way to fairly approach this issue. Fix the houses and let the loan be recoverable over long term with final payment on death and sale of asset. That would apportion the costs more fairly, better result for the tax payer and what is needed for the homeowner.

doc22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119208381#Comment_119208381

What aren't they saying? That's it's not covering a third of the houses at 420k? that €160 a sqft grant on a fully serviced existing site won't won't be enough(Apparently at 80% we're talking €200 a sqft)? or the call for pocketing the grant for smaller home?

God I pity Joe Mc Hugh and McConalogue, there's no pleasing some. Literally after only a few months demanding 10% extra for inflation.....

And after ten plus years of campaigning on MICA this and MICA then suddenly it's Pyrrhotite🙄.I'd say Joe Mc Hugh is counting down the days till his retirement from the Dail dealing with the ungratefulness of some of the campaigners. Taunts on twitter on his retirement, unhappy that he didn't push the grant cap closer to half a million mark.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119208634#Comment_119208634

Sorry lad. I'm not in the habit of feeding trolls.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119208568#Comment_119208568

Homeowners are tax payers too.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119208492#Comment_119208492

Doesn't seem to be working lol.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119208842#Comment_119208842

I did my bit but it looks like Vanilla has other ideas.

DrPhilG

No surprise. Awful system.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119208836#Comment_119208836

OK well perhaps then let the taxpaying homeowners of Donegal, Mayo, Clare etc.. fund the remedial work, through local taxes. Just needs freedom to substantially increase RPT.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210455#Comment_119210455

RPT?

Why should a homeowner suffer a loss over this? This is a government failing. They didn't apply the standards that they were supposed to. My wish is to have my house returned to the condition it was in prior to the cracking blocks. Why is this too much to ask? A house is probably the single biggest outlay for anyone. Therefore, if the government failed in their duty, it's up to them to make it right...no matter what the cost to the taxpayer. Don't blame the homeowners. Blame the government. Donegal County Council continued to build social housing using knowingly defective blocks. You can be damn sure those houses will be repaired using taxpayers money. That's your government.

jj880

https://youtu.be/U_B3WpcH3rI

Starting at 22:30 for 20 minutes is Ambrose McCloskey giving the best engineering run down on the scheme as it stands. Zero waffle or spoofing involved here. I encourage everyone to give it a listen. He doesn't just point out the problems he also gives the solutions needed to make sure this doesn't turn into a fiasco of more wasted tax payer billions and further decades of heartache for home owners.

Penfailed

It sounds like the new scheme is a joke. You have to retain the existing foundations. You can't even remove and replace at your own cost. Anyone taking legal action can't access the scheme. It's farcical.

NIMAN

It appears that after all the protests, the government supposedly listening to the people etc, the new scheme is basically the old scheme, with some very minor tweaks.

Have basically left many homeowners needing to find large sums of money on their own again, which was the fundamental issue originally.

jj880

Shocking. A scheme designed to exclude as many home owners as possible and to protect the exchequer. Will the TDs who promised to support a real 100% scheme vote against this legislation? Or will there be more nonsense about banking this scheme and fighting on for more changes? We'll soon see.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119232497#Comment_119232497

McHugh got out before he had to make the decision.

jj880

McConalogue has been on the phone to certain homeowners saying the clause regarding foundations has been removed.

Unsurprisingly no-one believes a word he says but I find it strange he is ringing individual homeowners. Why not make a statement and help settle people down?

He would need to clarify what he is stating tomorrow.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119233101#Comment_119233101

He was on Highland radio earlier but I didn't get to hear the conversation. Hopefully he had some good news to announce.