Liam Miller - An Irish Solution To An Irish Problem

jimd2

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/liam-miller-tribute-match-set-to-go-ahead-at-pirc-u-chaoimh-alongside-hurling-curtain-raiser-37162619.html

So the GAA see the only way out of this mess is to play an additional hurling game to make it into a community event.

Considering that they are organising a meeting of Central Council could they not just consider the request given and support the fundraiser and not try to implement this hotch potch of a solution?

And then as appropriate arRange proper GAA fundraisers good GAA related causes.

In my mind it's just over complicating things and seems to outsiders to be doing the minimum to take Shane Ross and other politicians that control the purse strings off their backs.

I do not agree with Duff that they are dinosaurs. I just feel that in Tom Ryan they appointed a very "safe" director general who is afraid to make a brave decision. Joe Brolly predicted this when he was appointed. It doesnt bode well for the association going forward.

Message to GAA JUST GIVE PERMISSION FOR THE GAME AS REQUESTED AND GET ON WITH IT.

Fr Tod Umptious

This thread will probably be closed as there is another one under review.

Anyway
Isnt it ironic, don't you think, all last week people were using Miller's GAA activity as a youth as a reason to open PUC.

Now that the GAA are using those links as a reason to add to the event there is a backlash.

Personal opinion, the GAA should have just apologized to the organisers and said they could not open PUC, but here is a whopping great cheque for Marymount Hospice

smelly sock

jimd2 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/liam-miller-tribute-match-set-to-go-ahead-at-pirc-u-chaoimh-alongside-hurling-curtain-raiser-37162619.html

So the GAA see the only way out of this mess is to play an additional hurling game to make it into a community event.

Considering that they are organising a meeting of Central Council could they not just consider the request given and support the fundraiser and not try to implement this hotch potch of a solution?

And then as appropriate arRange proper GAA fundraisers good GAA related causes.

In my mind it's just over complicating things and seems to outsiders to be doing the minimum to take Shane Ross and other politicians that control the purse strings off their backs.

I do not agree with Duff that they are dinosaurs. I just feel that in Tom Ryan they appointed a very "safe" director general who is afraid to make a brave decision. Joe Brolly predicted this when he was appointed. It doesnt bode well for the association going forward.

Message to GAA JUST GIVE PERMISSION FOR THE GAME AS REQUESTED AND GET ON WITH IT.

At the end of the day it is a GAA facility and they call the shots. As poorly as the GAA are looking in all of this the FAI look ten times worse. No facilities of their own worth speaking of.

The game is going ahead in the pairc. I suppose the issue now is the soccer heads and anti GAA people have to look for something else to run the GAA down on. Imagine playing a hurling game in a gaa stadium. Shocking stuff.

Clareman

The GAA don't have to do anything with their property that they don't want to, fair play to them for finding a solution.

Couple of questions I have from the whole thing, why can't the FAI have a ground in Cork for an event like this? What's wrong with Musgrave Park for this (the new pitch will be down in time)? Why does there need to be a fund raiser for a professional soccer player? Unfortunately 36 year olds die all the time leaving family behind them, most aren't employed in 1 of the best paid jobs in the world by the biggest club in the world, why can't be the fund raiser be for a far larder audience than just 1 family and a hospice.

Clareman

smelly sock wrote: »

At the end of the day it is a GAA facility and they call the shots. As poorly as the GAA are looking in all of this the FAI look ten times worse. No facilities of their own worth speaking of.

The game is going ahead in the pairc. I suppose the issue now is the soccer heads and anti GAA people have to look for something else to run the GAA down on. Imagine playing a hurling game in a gaa stadium. Shocking stuff.

When Wembley was being done up the English FA played their blue ribbon event (FA Cup Final) outside of their capital in another country when there was a bigger stadium with great facilities in London (Twickenham), if that happened in Ireland the GAA would get their typical lashing

washman3

I actually think its a good idea to make it a community event.
The organizing committee would be under serious pressure to sell tickets for a charity game on a Tuesday evening. Its one thing being able to sell out Turners Cross with a 7000 capacity but thinking they could sell out PUC is a totally different kettle of fish. They could've been left with serious 'egg in the face'. I think the organizers were always well aware of this. I would honestly suggest they could attract any more than 20,000 for a stand-alone soccer game.
Maybe Cork hurlers will be A.I. champions by then and play an All-Star selection in the curtain raiser. Could be a popular draw.
Maybe then something in the region of 35K will attend, still cant see anything near a sell-out, but that would be decent at least.

Clareman

jimd2 wrote: »

Message to GAA JUST GIVE PERMISSION FOR THE GAME AS REQUESTED AND GET ON WITH IT.

Message to JIMD2 I WOULD LIKE TO USE YOUR HOUSE TO RAISE FUNDS FOR WHAT I CONSIDER A GOOD CAUSE, JUST GIVE IT TO ME AND GET ON WITH IT.

The GAA weren't consulted at the start of this whole thing, the organisers pretty much said "we'd like to have it on it PuC but we're not let, will ye all ask the GAA to let us have it", there are events on in GAA grounds the whole time that just happen because they are done the right way, for example when the Irish Rugby team trained in Charleville GAA, the GAA have done nothing wrong here in my opinion

eagle eye

I don't see an issue with the other match but I do understand that at this late stage it will annoy people.
GAA are a disgrace imo.

I'd love to see a breakaway from it and a professional gaelic football association formed.

Hitman3000

Even when trying to save face the GAA manages to let their greed come to the fore.

Clareman

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't see an issue with the other match but I do understand that at this late stage it will annoy people.
GAA are a disgrace imo.

I'd love to see a breakaway from it and a professional gaelic football association formed.

Why are they a disgrace? They have well documented & public rules in place but have found a way around them to facilitate a solution

Clareman

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Even when trying to save face the GAA manages to let their greed come to the fore.

Where does it mention the GAA getting anything out of this?

ShamoBuc

None of this would be an issue if the professional organisation had a suitable stadium to use, apart from a ground share with a different professional organisation.
As a result it's the bad men from the GAA fault.

washman3

Clareman wrote: »

Where does it mention the GAA getting anything out of this?

It doesn't..!! but posters like this will use any opportunity for a cheap shot at the GAA.:D

blindsider

...and the 30m that was given to fund the re-development? Were there no conditions attached?

The €80m redevelopment of Pairc Ui Chaoimh received €30m in public funding, and the EU approved the grant on condition that the stadium “will be open to various users on a non-discriminatory and transparent basis”.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/pairc-ui-chaoimhs-liam-miller-refusal-to-be-queried-by-government-472926.html

Does a mention of GAA Rule 44 (formerly Rule 42) mean this thread goes nuclear? :-(


Musgrave Park could be used, but it has too much terracing and only 3K seats - so it's not really suitable for a soccer match.

Thomond Park could be used, but it's in Limerick - and the organisers wnat it in Liam Milelr's hometown - not unreasonable...


Insisting that an exhibition hurling match be played is (IMO) petty and meaningless.

THE GAA should just stop digging.

Franz Von Peppercorn

So this other match means more money to the organisers?

jimd2

Clareman wrote: »

Message to JIMD2 I WOULD LIKE TO USE YOUR HOUSE TO RAISE FUNDS FOR WHAT I CONSIDER A GOOD CAUSE, JUST GIVE IT TO ME AND GET ON WITH IT.

The GAA weren't consulted at the start of this whole thing, the organisers pretty much said "we'd like to have it on it PuC but we're not let, will ye all ask the GAA to let us have it", there are events on in GAA grounds the whole time that just happen because they are done the right way, for example when the Irish Rugby team trained in Charleville GAA, the GAA have done nothing wrong here in my opinion

Not a problem Clareman, you would be more than welcome once I get confirmation of my €30,000 house grant.

Hitman3000

Clareman wrote:

Where does it mention the GAA getting anything out of this?

Also to raise funds for injured GAA players. As I said they couldn't help themselves. Plenty of other opportunities to raise funds for injured players.

Franz Von Peppercorn

jimd2 wrote: »

Not a problem Clareman, you would be more than welcome once I get confirmation of my €30,000 house grant.

So if the government did give people tax relief or grants to buy houses (hint in some cases it does) then anybody can rock up to live there?

Clareman

Let's not forget about the 191 million that did up the Aviva

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/22382.php

jimd2

Decision made finally. They are discussing it on Marion Finucane now on radio 1.

She is saying it's understandable to fight for the youngsters but in your gut you know that it is right to open it up.

Great to see and I am glad they did the right thing in the end

Clareman

jimd2 wrote: »

Not a problem Clareman, you would be more than welcome once I get confirmation of my €30,000 house grant.

Tax relief, first time buyer grant should cover lots of that.

The lads in the methadone clinic appreciate it, they'll be there next Tuesday

Hitman3000

Clareman wrote:

The GAA weren't consulted at the start of this whole thing, the organisers pretty much said "we'd like to have it on it PuC but we're not let, will ye all ask the GAA to let us have it", there are events on in GAA grounds the whole time that just happen because they are done the right way, for example when the Irish Rugby team trained in Charleville GAA, the GAA have done nothing wrong here in my opinion

Actually it was a question from a journalist that caused the sh*tstorm the GAA found themselves the centre of. Nice story though.

Clareman

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Also to raise funds for injured GAA players. As I said they couldn't help themselves. Plenty of other opportunities to raise funds for injured players.

I'm sure Liam Miller had plenty of opportunities to put protection in place for his family doesn't mean a fund raiser can't happen

Clareman

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Actually it was a question from a journalist that caused the sh*tstorm the GAA found themselves the centre of. Nice story though.

Very loaded question from the journalist, it was almost of if it was a setup question.

jimd2

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

So if the government did give people tax relief or grants to buy houses (hint in some cases it does) then anybody can rock up to live there?

Not permanently live there but I would accommodate Clareman for a good cause event like this if I had received s €30k for my own events

Clareman

Anyway, hopefully the people of Cork will be out in force for the event, there's over a month to sell tickets for it so no reason why it can't be a sell out.

Hitman3000

Clareman wrote:

I'm sure Liam Miller had plenty of opportunities to put protection in place for his family doesn't mean a fund raiser can't happen

The event was not just for the Miller family, a local hospice is also to benefit.

Hitman3000

Clareman wrote:

Very loaded question from the journalist, it was almost of if it was a setup question.

Tin foil hat time.

Fr Tod Umptious

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't see an issue with the other match but I do understand that at this late stage it will annoy people.
GAA are a disgrace imo.

I'd love to see a breakaway from it and a professional gaelic football association formed.

You obviously haven't a clue.

Clareman

Right, enough talk of a game weeks ago going to be played by 40 something year old millionaires, time to concentrate on hurling.

Niles Crane

Considering the reaction to this from people across the country I hope this event comes close to selling out and we get well over 10 million generated for the charity through this event.Considering the outcry from people across the country there should be no reason they don't make some personal contribution to the charity even if they cannot attend the game.

Secretly the Miller family and Marymount should be delighted about the furore over this issue as it has raised awareness of the event and hospice and more people than ever are surely going to contribute to the hospice.I donated money to the charity last night and yet I wouldn't have been on my mind at all if it wasn't for this PUC issue.

grbear

I'd be reasonably confident in saying that most of the full time officials involved in running the GAA would have been happy enough to let the original event go ahead in PuC. However, they probably had to come up with solution/fudge to let the event proceed without riling up the more hardline elements of their membership. Ultimately there are still plenty of GAA dinosaurs knocking around at congress level, just look at the tone of discussion when any motion originating from the CPA was discussed this year, so Horan and co needed a solution that didn't give them any grounds to kick up a fuss or hold up the event proceeding.


I'm just glad to see that a solution has been found. If people want to keep being bitter about the past week then that's their business.

Clareman

I don't know of a single GAA person who opposed this game going ahead in PuC, in fact the only negative feedback I heard was why was it taking so long for the go-ahead to be given, I was told it was because 2 of the decision makers were on holidays and they needed to be there to rubber stamp the go ahead of it, this wouldn't have been an issue if they were given notice of the request in advance.

FrancieBrady

Brilliant solution. Well done to them all for sorting it out.

Diemos

Clareman wrote: »

The GAA don't have to do anything with their property that they don't want to, fair play to them for finding a solution.

Couple of questions I have from the whole thing, why can't the FAI have a ground in Cork for an event like this? What's wrong with Musgrave Park for this (the new pitch will be down in time)? Why does there need to be a fund raiser for a professional soccer player? Unfortunately 36 year olds die all the time leaving family behind them, most aren't employed in 1 of the best paid jobs in the world by the biggest club in the world, why can't be the fund raiser be for a far larder audience than just 1 family and a hospice.

Because the tax payer stumped up a significant portion of the bill. For that stadium.
When an organisation pays for it's facilities out of it's own cash, it should be able to make up it's own rules but as soon as a takes a euro from the Irish public it needs to make itself more amenable to public needs.

Clareman

Diemos wrote: »

Because the tax payer stumped up a significant portion of the bill. For that stadium.
When an organisation pays for it's facilities out of it's own cash, it should be able to make up it's own rules but as soon as a takes a euro from the Irish public it needs to make itself more amenable to public needs.

Great, I can't wait for EVERY ground that receives ANY public money to have a pitch large enough to cater for Gaelic Games, most of the grounds will probably never be needed but they will need to make themselves more amenable to public needs :rolleyes:

Did they change legal advisors?

Or did the legal advisor who told them just last week that it could not go ahead get it wrong?

Or was it just a bad excuse at the time to fob off the issue?

Clareman

Clareman wrote: »

Great, I can't wait for EVERY ground that receives ANY public money to have a pitch large enough to cater for Gaelic Games, most of the grounds will probably never be needed but they will need to make themselves more amenable to public needs :rolleyes:

There is a gulf of a difference between having playing facilities that may not suit each and every other sport, and having a ban on other sports.

Niles Crane

Deleted User wrote: »

Did they change legal advisors?

Or did the legal advisor who told them just last week that it could not go ahead get it wrong?

Or was it just a bad excuse at the time to fob off the issue?

Who the hell cares.

The match is going ahead, more money will now be raised and if GAA members want they can arrange for congress to vote on getting rid of rule 42 or anything connected with it once and for all and let clubs and county boards do what they want with their grounds.

Hitman3000

Deleted User wrote:

Or did the legal advisor who told them just last week that it could not go ahead get it wrong?

The thoughts of perhaps having to hand back 30 million of public money may have concentrated their minds.

Clareman

Clareman wrote: »

...this wouldn't have been an issue if they were given notice of the request in advance.

They were asked months ago. See twowheelsonly's posts on the other thread.

I'd say the "off on holliers" excuse is as hollow as the "but...but...legal advice" line from last week.

Clareman

Deleted User wrote: »

Did they change legal advisors?

Or did the legal advisor who told them just last week that it could not go ahead get it wrong?

Or was it just a bad excuse at the time to fob off the issue?

No-one told them it couldn't go ahead, they said that they'd need to go to HQ to get a decision, as the "match" was deemed not to be in competition with GAA games AND a GAA match will be played at the same time all the rules are covered.

Clareman

So all the outrage is about the €30 million, which to the best of my knowledge was a solo run from the Cork County Board when central council decided that there was no need for such a stadium to be put in place.

Fr Tod Umptious

Deleted User wrote: »

Did they change legal advisors?

Or did the legal advisor who told them just last week that it could not go ahead get it wrong?

Or was it just a bad excuse at the time to fob off the issue?

I think the legal advise was mentioned in tegards to people questioning the 30m in funding rather than this specific event.

Diemos

Clareman wrote: »

So all the outrage is about the €30 million, which to the best of my knowledge was a solo run from the Cork County Board when central council decided that there was no need for such a stadium to be put in place.

You've completely missed the point.
Did you hear any outrage about the funds when the stadium was planned or built?

The issue is that a tribute to a local man who represented our country would not be hosted because of the sport he played.

rob316

Only ever about getting their piece of the 2m in potential funds. Rules were only a cod.

Hitman3000

rob316 wrote:

Only ever about getting their piece of the 2m in potential funds. Rules were only a cod.

'Grab All Association ' is not just a catchy phrase.

Clareman

Diemos wrote: »

You've completely missed the point.
Did you hear any outrage about the funds when the stadium was planned or built?

The issue is that a tribute fundraiser to a local man who represented our country would not be hosted because of the sport heto played in the fundraiser.

I fixed your post a bit there. There was no problem with the fundraiser, the problem was with a soccer match being played in a GAA ground, this is against the rules of the association but once it was looked into a bit more details a workaround was found and the game is going ahead.

Clareman

rob316 wrote: »

Only ever about getting their piece of the 2m in potential funds. Rules were only a cod.

If it was only about the money they'd have opened the place open in the first place for a decent price, then again Cork City Hall maybe laying on the gala dinner for free.

PTH2009

So it's In puc and hope all goes well for them. Odd time a 3pm on a Tuesday but might make the trip down. Hope this is the start of a new era where other sports can use GAA stadia

It will be interesting to see what PUC looks like with a soccer pitch

PTH2009

PTH2009 wrote: »

So it's In puc and hope all goes well for them. Odd time a 3pm on a Tuesday but might make the trip down. Hope this is the start of a new era where other sports can use GAA stadia

It will be interesting to see what PUC looks like with a soccer pitch

Thin it's the only time all the players are available.

It'll be hard to sell it out, but the controversy may actually benefit it, no need to advertise this one now...