Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker **Spoilers from post 2076**

Tony EH

ogsjw wrote: »

Did Rian lose that trilogy he was promised, because of the backlash of TLJ, or did he get it back? I keep hearing mixed things.

Johnson is still "working" on "his trilogy". But, frankly, that doesn't mean shit. Until the cameras are rolling, it's all hot air.

I don't think he'll be let near another Star Wars film for a long time, if ever, and Disney would be wise to move him along. Or, at least just give him directorial reigns. Because it's clear he can't write a Star Wars script, that's for sure.

There's going to be a lot of changes coming up after IX gets released and Disney goes on their "hiatus". Kennedy will be out the door and the faces we now associate with movie Star Wars will all be changed, including Johnson, I reckon.

tigger123

Tony EH wrote: »

Johnson is still "working" on "his trilogy". But, frankly, that doesn't mean shit. Until the cameras are rolling, it's all hot air.

I don't think he'll be let near another Star Wars film for a long time, if ever, and Disney would be wise to move him along. Or, at least just give him directorial reigns. Because it's clear he can't write a Star Wars script, that's for sure.

There's going to be a lot of changes coming up after IX gets released and Disney goes on their "hiatus". Kennedy will be out the door and the faces we now associate with movie Star Wars will all be changed, including Johnson, I reckon.

Didn't she recently renew her contract?

johnny_ultimate

Tony EH wrote: »

It proved to be a fat disaster and Disney had to fall back on Abrams to fix everything that Johnson broke

Disney announced Johnson’s trilogy months after they hired Abrams for IX. What odd behaviour towards a writer/director whose work they felt they desperately had to ‘fix’...

Tony EH

tigger123 wrote: »

Didn't she recently renew her contract?

Aye. She renewed it, but I suspect that she'll be "retiring" once IX has been released and everything dies down.

Disney are in a weird position at present with Star Wars and I think Iger is looking to shake things up with the personnel. This "hiatus" business is a strange, but entirely unsurprising, event.

I think Disney will be concentrating on their TV shows for a while and regrouping to figure out what they're going to do with the movie side of things, which I don't think has gone the way they thought it would.

But, then again, their planning (or lack thereof) has been atrocious with regards to the sequels.

Tony EH

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Disney announced Johnson’s trilogy months after they hired Abrams for IX. What odd behaviour towards a writer/director whose work they felt they desperately had to ‘fix’...

There's been a LOT of odd behaviour from Disney re: Star Wars.

IMHO, they should shut up about projects and directors and whatnot, until actual plans are in place. Which, they kind of have, I suppose, over the last year. Maybe they're learned to stop shooting their mouth off.

pixelburp

The equation isn't that hard to work out: Disney acquired that, on the face of it, was one of the most lucrative IPs on the planet. And paid through the nose for it. But it turns out - and perhaps George Lucas knew this better than most - unlike the Marvel franchise, the stark reality was that there's actually very little narrative legroom in the Star Wars toybox.

It's a gussied-up Monomyth, with an audience that almost rabidly demands a checklist of nostalgic aesthetics. The Mandolorian is going to be the real litmus test here, of just how sustainable the Star Wars universe is, beyond of the 'Skywalker' lodestone.

'Solo' was the biggest miscalculation in the cinema format, with a 75% reshoot guaranteeing the film would financially flop, but you could interpret that desperation for something, anything, to draw from the SW universe that wasn't the main saga.

tigger123

Tony EH wrote: »

Aye. She renewed it, but I suspect that she'll be "retiring" once IX has been released and everything dies down.

Disney are in a weird position at present with Star Wars and I think Iger is looking to shake things up with the personnel. This "hiatus" business is a strange, but entirely unsurprising, event.

I think Disney will be concentrating on their TV shows for a while and regrouping to figure out what they're going to do with the movie side of things, which I don't think has gone the way they thought it would.

But, then again, their planning (or lack thereof) has been atrocious with regards to the sequels.

Why on earth would Disney sign her into a contract until 2021, and then sack her after Episode Ix is released?

They're clearly backing her, as they feel she's doing a good job. If they didnt', they wouldn't have renewed her contract in late 2018.

Tony EH

pixelburp wrote: »

The equation isn't that hard to work out: Disney acquired that, on the face of it, was one of the most lucrative IPs on the planet. And paid through the nose for it. But it turns out - and perhaps George Lucas knew this better than most - unlike the Marvel franchise, the stark reality was that there's actually very little narrative legroom in the Star Wars toybox.

It's a gussied-up Monomyth, with an audience that almost rabidly demands a checklist of nostalgic aesthetics. The Mandolorian is going to be the real litmus test here, of just how sustainable the Star Wars universe is, beyond of the 'Skywalker' lodestone.

'Solo' was the biggest miscalculation in the cinema format, with a 75% reshoot guaranteeing the film would financially flop, but you could interpret that desperation for something, anything, to draw from the SW universe that wasn't the main saga.

There's, literally, a whole galaxy for Disney to play with. What's holding them back is merely a fear to explore it. Instead we got retreads and trying to hook stories on OT characters, when they really should have just struck out on their own stories and characters, rabid fans be damned.

As for 'Solo', it was always going to be a dud and it's indicative of the lack of thinking over at Disney, regarding the franchise, that they couldn't realise that, even when its announcement was greeted with a resounding "meh". It was a terrible idea from the get go to try and hook a movie on a young Han Solo. It was never going to work. The setting is fine, but it's hampered terribly by their main character choice. The underworld of Star Wars is a great setting for a film, but they blew it. Although I think their Mandalorian TV show will expand that territory in a much more satisfying manner.

Tony EH

tigger123 wrote: »

Why on earth would Disney sign her into a contract until 2021, and then sack her after Episode Ix is released?

They're clearly backing her, as they feel she's doing a good job. If they didnt', they wouldn't have renewed her contract in late 2018.

I didn't say anything about sacking her.

But, she probably won't be in the position she is now.

Dades

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

RayCun wrote: »

This suggests you think Abrams was planning to remake Return of the Jedi in the last movie and that would have been fine with you.

Neither in fact. I'm only recognising that he liberally borrowed plots from all the OT (including ROTJ) for TFA, therefore it wouldn't be out of character for him to have used Snoke as a Palpatine'esqe anchor to the new trilogy.

Tony EH wrote: »

But, she probably won't be in the position she is now.

Her position would only be threatened if Ep IV fails, or to a lessor extent - The Mandalorian. She looked pretty comfortable at the Celebration last month. You've given no reason as to why she'll be gone.

pixelburp

Tony EH wrote: »

There's, literally, a whole galaxy for Disney to play with. What's holding them back is merely a fear to explore it. Instead we got retreads and trying to hook stories on OT characters, when they really should have just struck out on their own stories and characters, rabid fans be damned.

And like I said, The Mandalorian will tell a lot about how much stomach there is for a series beyond the main iconography. I have an inkling there's less than what Disney hoped & paid for. It's noteworthy how it's the only live-action TV show thus far greenlit, when there's a slew of Marvel shows - and a Willow spin-off talked about, bizarrely.

I've said it before, but Star Wars occupies a fuzzy grey area where its universe is less ideas driven than others of the genre, the audience expecting a checklist of superficial Star Wars tropes, than anything deeper. It's 'goodies & baddies' writ large, and the First Order emphasise this; less laziness on Disney's part, more a case of conceptual limitations.

That's not a criticism or attempted snobbery I might add, just that scratch the surface and there's not a lot underneath. Again, to defend the honour of Last Jedi, I liked the Canto Bight moments that addressed the grim reality that ... well, this is a galaxy in perpetual war & the wealthiest are those playing to both sides. If The Mandalorian taps into that, it could be a winner

tigger123

Tony EH wrote: »

Aye. She renewed it, but I suspect that she'll be "retiring" once IX has been released and everything dies down.

Disney are in a weird position at present with Star Wars and I think Iger is looking to shake things up with the personnel. This "hiatus" business is a strange, but entirely unsurprising, event.

I think Disney will be concentrating on their TV shows for a while and regrouping to figure out what they're going to do with the movie side of things, which I don't think has gone the way they thought it would.

But, then again, their planning (or lack thereof) has been atrocious with regards to the sequels.

Tony EH wrote: »

I didn't say anything about sacking her.

But, she probably won't be in the position she is now.

What does "retiring" mean then?

ogsjw

pixelburp wrote: »

His work has always been vibrant and creative...

lol. Yeah Brick ad Looper are super 'vibrant' and 'subverting expectations' with a plot point far weaker than the obvious choices is very creative too.

tigger123 wrote: »

What does "retiring" mean then?

It's what happens when someone leaves a long term salaried position.

Like how Bob Iger is retiring sometime in 2021 I believe?

AMKC

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

pixelburp wrote: »

Johnson has probably got the bank and clout to fund his own future projects off the back of Last Jedi; why bring even more vitriol and heartache to his door from bitter fans. His work has always been vibrant and creative, so would be curious what he does next...

Star Trek do Star Trek. I think he would be a great director for Star Trek. Star Trek needs someone vibrant and creative for its next movie whenever it happens and if that were to mean Disney buying Star Trek as well than I don't have a problem with that. So if any Paramount Execs are reading this hire Rian Johnson now.

Sad Professor wrote: »

I'd rather see Johnson do something else, but TLJ was the only smooth production of Disney's SW films to date, so I'd imagine they are keen to work with him again. If not I'd imagine there's other studios lining up to work with him.

Star Trek maybe. Paramount here is the director you need for the next Star Trek film.

Tony EH wrote: »

There's, literally, a whole galaxy for Disney to play with. What's holding them back is merely a fear to explore it. Instead we got retreads and trying to hook stories on OT characters, when they really should have just struck out on their own stories and characters, rabid fans be damned.

The same with Star Trek. Sorry about going on about it but someone has too. I love both by the way. Star Wars for action and fun and Star Trek for its science its vision of the future for all of humankind and its excellent and sometimes even deep stories and real world references.

py2006

R.I.P Chewie

Tony EH

pixelburp wrote: »

And like I said, The Mandalorian will tell a lot about how much stomach there is for a series beyond the main iconography.

Sure. But, even 'The Mandalorian' is hooked on an OT character. It's really just "Boba Fett lite". So, they're not exactly striking out here into new territory either. In it's favour though, that snippet of footage that was leaked a wee while ago looked very promising.

pixelburp wrote: »

I have an inkling there's less than what Disney hoped & paid for. It's noteworthy how it's the only live-action TV show thus far greenlit, when there's a slew of Marvel shows - and a Willow spin-off talked about, bizarrely.

There's also that Cassian Andor TV show in the works as well and I think that it'll be there where the most "new" elements will be tested, even if that show is hooked on the OT period, a la 'Rogue One'. So, while Andor is a completely new Disney character (unlike The Mandalorian), it's still conforming to the trap that Disney have snared themselves in, which is trying to relive the success of the original films.

pixelburp wrote: »

I've said it before, but Star Wars occupies a fuzzy grey area where its universe is less ideas driven than others of the genre, the audience expecting a checklist of superficial Star Wars tropes, than anything deeper. It's 'goodies & baddies' writ large, and the First Order emphasise this; less laziness on Disney's part, more a case of conceptual limitations.

But, that isn't the fault of Star Wars Pix. That fault lies with the makers of the films, absolutely squarely. This new trilogy, for instance, didn't HAVE to be Empire vs Rebels 2.0. But, Abrams couldn't think his way out of that particular bag and Disney were afraid of failing if they made something that was too different to the other two (quite different) trilogies. That's Disney's fault, not the fault of the franchise itself.

There's plenty of room to play with here. They just need to move to a different side of the sandbox, as it were, and the only indication that they might do that is with the rumours that Benioff and Weiss might be penning something from a completely new era (albeit one that's been explored in other media).

pixelburp wrote: »

That's not a criticism or attempted snobbery I might add, just that scratch the surface and there's not a lot underneath.

Again though, that's only because the film makers have been so obsessed with the veneer and not the wood underneath.

pixelburp wrote: »

Again, to defend the honour of Last Jedi, I liked the Canto Bight moments that addressed the grim reality that ... well, this is a galaxy in perpetual war & the wealthiest are those playing to both sides. If The Mandalorian taps into that, it could be a winner

Well, I'll agree about one thing about that Canto Bight nonsense and that was that it did make an attempt to remark about war profiteering and how business will abandon any kind of principle when selling arms.

But, that's about all that can be said for that ridiculous sidetrack.

Dades

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

For the first new trilogy under Disney I don't blame them for retreading old ground.

There had to be lightsabers and stormtroopers and the Force. It had to contain the magic formula that made the OT what it became. Not following the formula would have been outrageous to most SW fans and never have generated the interest.

But now they have done that (with the final movei yet to come) they can and should move on and explore beyond the obvious.

Tony EH

Dades wrote: »

For the first new trilogy under Disney I don't blame them for retreading old ground.

Perhaps Dades, but did it have to be such a retread? The first film practically walks in the same OT footsteps, like soldiers walking through a minefield.

A familiar setting is fine, ie the galaxy far, far, away. But, I don't think anyone would have objected too much if it wasn't about Empire vs Rebels 2.0. That's just poor all round.

pixelburp

Tony EH wrote: »

Sure. But, even 'The Mandalorian' is hooked on an OT character. It's really just "Boba Fett lite". So, they're not exactly striking out here into new territory either. In it's favour though, that snippet of footage that was leaked a wee while ago looked very promising.

Admit it, it was the presence of Werner Herzog that sold it Actually surprised no trailer or that clip hasn't been released officially, the show has been otherwise quite quiet in terms of promotion IMO.

Tony EH wrote: »

There's also that Cassian Andor TV show in the works as well and I think that it'll be there where the most "new" elements will be tested, even if that show is hooked on the OT period, a la 'Rogue One'. So, while Andor is a completely new Disney character (unlike The Mandalorian), it's still conforming to the trap that Disney have snared themselves in, which is trying to relive the success of the original films.

But, that isn't the fault of Star Wars Pix. That fault lies with the makers of the films, absolutely squarely. This new trilogy, for instance, didn't HAVE to be Empire vs Rebels 2.0. But, Abrams couldn't think his way out of that particular bag and Disney were afraid of failing if they made something that was too different to the other two (quite different) trilogies. That's Disney's fault, not the fault of the franchise itself.

There's plenty of room to play with here. They just need to move to a different side of the sandbox, as it were, and the only indication that they might do that is with the rumours that Benioff and Weiss might be penning something from a completely new era (albeit one that's been explored in other media).

So what's the alternative to Empire v. Rebels that's going to play with blockbuster audiences who've had 40 years of "Star Wars" meaning a very specific style of storytelling, told with a very specific tempo?

I'm not trying to troll or dodge the question, I'm just genuinely suspicious that there's even any appetite or interest in, oh I dunno, the Yuuzhan Vong that could sustain a new series? Disney totally played it safe and I've moaned here before about how blatantly Force Awakens cribbed from the OT - and the script knew it by the various winks - but I can sorta see why they did at the same time. Disney are no mugs and maybe their market research made for depressing reading *shrugs*

Were I given a sh*t tonne of money I'm not sure what I'd make instead. In fact I asked that very question in the Last Jedi thread (back in the days of david75's presence in Star Wars threads), and IIRC it left people kinda stumped.

Tony EH

pixelburp wrote: »

Admit it, it was the presence of Werner Herzog that sold it Actually surprised no trailer or that clip hasn't been released officially, the show has been otherwise quite quiet in terms of promotion IMO.

Ya know. It kinda was. :pac:

Herzog in Star Wars. If anyone had said that in 1977, they'd have been laughed out the door.

pixelburp wrote: »

So what's the alternative to Empire v. Rebels that's going to play with blockbuster audiences who've had 40 years of "Star Wars" meaning a very specific style of storytelling, told with a very specific tempo?

Well, personally, I thought that the Knights of Ren should have been the sole antagonists for the sequels and the New Republic the protagonists. That eliminates the Empire vs Rebels shtick that's lumbered this trilogy. The prequels wasn't an Empire vs Rebels scenario, even though there were two clearly opposing sides. There was no reason that the sequels had to be.

Sure, you need protagonists and antagonists who are writ large for this type of space opera. But, there's no need to retread the old ground in such an obvious way. I mean, FFS, they even stuck in another Death Star. That's not even bloody trying.

There's places to go, they just have to have the balls to do it.

That's why the 'Solo' movie was quite the disappointment in many respects. That was a great opportunity to explore the underworld that's hinted at in the films.

But, they buggered it up by making it a film about a Han Solo checklist of stuff nobody wanted to know.

'The Mandalorian' looks like it could expand upon that quite successfully. As far as I know, it's set after the collapse of the Empire and has elements to the story that's based on that fallout. So, while the major OT players are still there in some capacity, it's not the grand Empire vs Rebels scenario and seems to be focused more on more "ordinary folk" as it were.

pixelburp wrote: »

I'm not trying to troll or dodge the question, I'm just genuinely suspicious that there's even any appetite or interest in, oh I dunno, the Yuuzhan Vong that could sustain a new series? Disney totally played it safe and I've moaned here before about how blatantly Force Awakens cribbed from the OT - and the script knew it by the various winks - but I can sorta see why they did at the same time. Disney are no mugs and maybe their market research made for depressing reading *shrugs*

I think everyone can see why they did it. But, it's still unforgivable and completely cowardly. If there was ever one movie series that didn't need a reboot (soft or otherwise), it was Star Wars. But, it's just indicative of the non-thinking way that Hollywood operates. It's just too expensive these days to make these movies and everyone is looking for their pound of flesh. So, a lot rides on everything that gets made. It's an originality killer for sure.

As for appetite for the Yuuzhan Vong, I wouldn't imagine that there would be. I don't know too much about them myself, but what I hear and read, they're not well liked and that storyline is much derided.

But, it's a big galaxy, or at least should be. The bad guys don't always have to wear white armour and be centrally led by a meglomaniac despot.

Maybe the Benioff and Weiss thing set in the Old Republic will strike out into newer areas and expand the interested parties a bit. Perhaps their Star Wars will be a mix of Game of Thrones with light sabers?

Once IX is out of the way, everyone can forget this whole debacle and maybe Disney will feel a bit freer to do stuff they might have felt terrified to do previously.

pixelburp wrote: »

Were I given a sh*t tonne of money I'm not sure what I'd make instead. In fact I asked that very question in the Last Jedi thread (back in the days of david75's presence in Star Wars threads), and IIRC it left people kinda stumped.

I think I answered? I can't remember. In any case, it absolutely wouldn't involve stormtroopers, Death Stars and Emperors (in new clothes).

Dades

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

Tony EH wrote: »

Perhaps Dades, but did it have to be such a retread? The first film practically walks in the same OT footsteps, like soldiers walking through a minefield.

I thought the same on first viewing, believe me. I was mad about it for a bit. But after the second and third (cinema) viewings, and the acceptance that this was being made for a new generation who weren't so obsessed familiar with the OT, I let it go. TFA was a brilliantly crafted movie and the new characters introduced were instantly likable. Yes, they didn't have to retread so much. But dammit they did it well.

ogsjw

Acceptance is kind of the running theme with this trilogy haha. I've learned to accept the plot points Johnson threw out in the throne room scenes of TLJ. I was very unhappy that first viewing though haha. Two years of watching 'who are Rey's parents' and 'Is yer man actually Darth Plaguis' YouTube theory videos down the drain haha.

salmocab

I’d like to see a bit more political stuff with maybe how the emperor climbs to the top with lots of double dealing and back stabbing through various systems and planets whilst slowly getting the army to be his. I know bits of this have been done but it could make a good series, kind of like GOT with less story arcs.

ogsjw

salmocab wrote: »

I’d like to see a bit more political stuff

Like maybe... trade blockades?


Imperial House of Cards does sound good.

pixelburp

Tony EH wrote: »

Ya know. It kinda was. :pac:

Herzog in Star Wars. If anyone had said that in 1977, they'd have been laughed out the door.

It still seems like such a left field move, but then he has a habit of turning up in these unpredictable turns; he appeared in Jack Reacher as the main bad guy & kinda stole the show .

Tony EH wrote: »

'The Mandalorian' looks like it could expand upon that quite successfully. As far as I know, it's set after the collapse of the Empire and has elements to the story that's based on that fallout. So, while the major OT players are still there in some capacity, it's not the grand Empire vs Rebels scenario and seems to be focused more on more "ordinary folk" as it were.

I guess we'll keep at it "watch this space" and agree to disagree here; no question, my enthusiasm for all things Star Wars has been in terminal decline since the Disney takeover and subsequent decisions - from the subpar movies, to outlying issues like the exclusive deal with EA to produce video games - has robbed me of that glow of anticipation.

I know it's not a popular thing to say, but Last Jedi was a return of that excitement, but it's obvious this is an outlying feeling & the end result likely that Disney doubles down on playing it safe.

Like I said I just don't believe Star Wars, as a popular culture totem, has the wriggle room to expand, simply because the template and iconography is so ingrained in the zeitgeist, the first deviation from all those superficial elements, the audience will walk away. That's my prediction anyway.

Above all else: Disney have toys and the new "Galaxy Edge" part of Disneyland to flog; they know full well the power of merchandising and the flanks of stormtroopers now marching through the "happiest place on earth" testament to that.

Lindsey Ellis (excellent video essayist on YT) did an analysis on Disney, the First Order and the threaded needle of, effectively, commercialising fascism (no no, don't run, it's more interesting than it sounds!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAVeyXwy3BE

pixelburp

A few promotional photos have arrived in the public domain, including a look at Keri Russell's character, "Zorri Bliss"

https://twitter.com/starwarstuff/status/1131175021924225026

https://twitter.com/jowrotethis/status/1131176694537019392

https://twitter.com/LightsCameraPod/status/1131175745533952000

Stop moaning ffs

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

Richard E Grant looks like he means serious business. Such a great actor. He has the presence for that kind of role in spades.


Sounds like JJ is a bit rattled by Rians visual style. All to the good I say.

“Working on nine, I found myself approaching it slightly differently,” he says. “Which is to say that, on seven, I felt beholden to Star Wars in a way that was interesting—I was doing what to the best of my ability I felt Star Wars should be.” But this time something changed. Abrams found himself making different choices—for the camera angles, the lighting, the story. “It felt slightly more renegade; it felt slightly more like, you know, **** it, I’m going to do the thing that feels right because it does, not because it adheres to something.”

pixelburp

Richard E Grant is a fine actor, but he's more than happy to chew the scenery when he wants to; the First Order have scarcely been models of restraint, so I expect Grant to be in full blown snarling, megalomaniacal mode

Stop moaning ffs

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

pixelburp wrote: »

Richard E Grant is a fine actor, but he's more than happy to chew the scenery when he wants to; the First Order have scarcely been models of restraint, so I expect Grant to be in full blown snarling, megalomaniacal mode

God I hope so
We need that after they wasted the deadly general in the Last Jedi

Stop moaning ffs

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

Seems to be several small bits from the article here and there. This though. Are they fighting on the wreckage of the Death Star in the water?




https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/05/the-truth-about-kylo-ren-and-reys-connection